Technique for LOTR EE DVDs

[ron spencer]

This post has nothing to do with problems with DVD Rebuilder, but with a technique I can use to backup my LOTR Extended Edition DVDs....I would like to be able to join the 2 dvds (just dolby digital) of each extended edition into one dig SEAMLESS dvd on my hard drive and then use DVD Rebuilder....How can I join seamlessly? I tried just using VOBedit to join and IFOEdit to create IFOs, but DVD Rebuilder says the source is corrupt after encoding...writing navpacks is when error comes. Can anyone give me advice as to how to join?

[Wombler]

This post has nothing to do with problems with DVD Rebuilder, but with a technique I can use to backup my LOTR Extended Edition DVDs....I would like to be able to join the 2 dvds (just dolby digital) of each extended edition into one dig SEAMLESS dvd on my hard drive and then use DVD Rebuilder....How can I join seamlessly? I tried just using VOBedit to join and IFOEdit to create IFOs, but DVD Rebuilder says the source is corrupt after encoding...writing navpacks is when error comes. Can anyone give me advice as to how to join?

I used DVD2One to seamlessly combine the titlesets without compression then processed this with DVD-Rebuilder.

The quality was poor though even with a full reencode so I decided it was best to stick with separate discs.


Wombler

[ron spencer]

I would put on dual layer, so quality would be better than on single....I tried DVD2One, but join option said it could not join them...no reason given. I would think you could, as they are from originals....just choose join option? or is there another thing I need to do.

[Wombler]

I would put on dual layer, so quality would be better than on single....I tried DVD2One, but join option said it could not join them...no reason given. I would think you could, as they are from originals....just choose join option? or is there another thing I need to do.

Rip them both to hard disk first.

From the DVD2One launch screen pick join multiple movies and point it to the first disc.

Go to DVD Settings and set the target size to DL disc.

Select seamless join and point it to the second disc.

Bang the green button and it should create a new combined titleset in the specified destination directory.

It's been a long time from I've used that option but that's essentially how it works.


Wombler

[steptoe]

You may struggle to join them, especially the super extended versions that work out about 4 hours in total for each film

I tried various software including DVD2One and a couple others plus authoring software like TMPGenc DVD Author, they all complained as the final file size was over 10GB and they didn't appreciated that as thats bigger than a DL DVD so they just refuse to let you go any higher than the capacity of a DL disc

Try DVDShrink, I think that was what I used in the end, and that was quite happy to let me join them regardless of the final size, just be sure to use no compression in reauthor mode and you'll be sure it won't try to compress anything

In the end I gave up and put them on two DVDs per movie, its a massive film and the quality loss is far too great, even using DVD-RB Pro and HC encoder, CCE encoder, tried them both, with low compression matrices

It will fit on a single DVD as DVD-RB doesn't care on the final quality its doing its job as usual, but the quality is terrible, stick to a DL disc or use two DVDs like I had to in the end

[archaeo]

I've also run into the 9-10Gb limit using dvd2one on some dual discs, as steptoe has mentioned. I solved that issue by joining the vob's into one large one using VOBmerge, then assigning IFO's using IFOedit. It seemed to be the only way to successfully merge VOB's that go over that DVD9 size.

If you use do use shrink, you will get that annoying 'break' between title sets. That break also prevents you from going back and forth between chapters in the two title sets.

[ron spencer]

I got those issues to...will try vobmerge

[setarip_old]

Hi!

Read the ENTIRE thread at the following link:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=975900#post975900

[ron spencer]

this looks tuff....not sure why as audio bitrate is same....nothing fancy....too bad DVD Rebuilder cannot rip apart 2 rips and join.....oh well. lots to read

[laserfan]

this looks tuff....Here's (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=804028) another thread on the same subject.

As I said in the thread I'd done Titanic SE and Pearl Harbor but never bothered to try w/LOTR EE box set I have. It DID work well enough for Titanic & PH, but these were shorter movies also.

[Video Dude]

I came up with a simple method to join the movie:

1 - Reauthor with Shrink (no compression)
Disc 1 = Title 1
Disc 2 = Title 2
Strip unwanted audio/subs

2 - Open and save in PgcEdit (to fix Shrink vob-id bug in ifo)

3 - VobBlanker
Cut black frames at end of Title 1 and beginning of Title 2
Blank "fan credits", retain main credits

4 - DVD-RB
Use bitrate redistribution (apply all VTS)
Use low bitrate matrix (for dvd-5) and multipass

5 - Join seamlessly with DVD2one (no compression)

[steptoe]

Another I tried was to use DVDShrink again to do basic editing and remove everthing from the start of each movie to just before where the actual movie starts, I think it was the LOTR logo

Also, remove virtually all of the end credits, if you spend a bit of time you can get a resonable end with a few credits and save yourself about 10-20 minutes per movie with editing the start and end

Oh, and reduce the subtitles as required and remove any audio tracks you don't need or want

[Wombler]

You may struggle to join them, especially the super extended versions that work out about 4 hours in total for each film

I tried various software including DVD2One and a couple others plus authoring software like TMPGenc DVD Author, they all complained as the final file size was over 10GB and they didn't appreciated that as thats bigger than a DL DVD so they just refuse to let you go any higher than the capacity of a DL disc

I definitely got this to work with 'The Two Towers EE' using DVD2One but as I said it's a long time ago and I can't quite remember all the details.

Actually come to think of it I've maybe used DVD2One to make an uncompressed movie only copy of each disc then used it again to seamlessly combine the two chunks prior to compression.

I must have set custom size and ramped it up high enough to allow the join. Either that or the removal of the extras, menus and unwanted audio brought it within DL size.

Yeah that sounds about right.


Wombler

[ron spencer]

@wombler


How did you do that? that max size in DVD2One is 9999 right? When you join the size would have been larger than 9999, so it would have compressed right?


@Video Dude....I may try your suggestion 2-nite

[Wombler]

@wombler


How did you do that? that max size in DVD2One is 9999 right? When you join the size would have been larger than 9999, so it would have compressed right?


To be honest I can't remember exactly but it's whetted my curiosity and I think I'll have to give it a go again and see.

I'll test it for you and report back later.


Wombler

[Wombler]

Okay here goes.

This is for 'The Two Towers EE' as discussed earlier.

In DVD2One change size setting to custom 9999.

Process both discs in movie only mode and remove all audio apart from Dolby 5.1 (AC3 3/2.1) to produce two uncompressed filesets.

Disc 1 comes out at 4.08GB.

Disc 2 comes out at 4.75GB.

Start DVD2One again and select movie only mode.

Direct it to disc 1 then select seamless join and point it to disc 2.

Optional - If you want better quality in the final result then deselect cell 39 on the second disc at this stage which removes the extended fan credits and saves 422MB.

Bang the green button and Bob's your uncle!

You'll need to compress it slightly to fit on to DL which can either be done at the join stage by DVD2One (if you're happy with the quality of it's output) in which case change the size setting to DL, or afterwards with DVDRebuilder which is the preferred method in my mind.

If you've deselected cell 39 at the earlier stage then the final image will be of higher quality although as I've never tried the DL route I don't know whether it's noticeable or not.

As I said before, I used this method in the past to get down to DVD-5 with DVD Rebuilder but wasn't happy with the overall quality as the compression required was excessive (even with the additional credits removed).

I used CCE at the time although if I was doing it again I'd use the HC Encoder which the consensus of opinion here seems to suggest gives better results at low bitrates.

Whether or not it would improve it enough for my eyes though I'd doubt.


Wombler

[valnar]

This may be weeks, months, years off, but I hope the HD versions will fit on a single HDDVD/BluRay disc. I thought about doing the same thing with my extended DVD's but figured since quality is job #1, it's worth waiting.

Robert

[m1ckran]

I did this some time ago using DVD Shrink and then DVD Rebuilder, but I'm not certain of all the step I took. I can, however, remember the following which might be useful for you.

Firstly, I made a movie-only backup of both parts and used DVD shrink to strip the fan club end credits from the second disc (saving over ten minutes), and to trim the end of the first disc to the final scene. At this stage, I was using Shrink in Reauthor mode with no compression. I also removed all soundtracks except for English Stereo (to save space on the DVD) and the ordinary English subtitles. The subtitles are needed for Elvish translations and the DVD seems to know where to find them.

I then renumbered the VOBs to make them consecutive and merged them using VobEdit (I think this site contain instructions for this) and created IFO's using IfoEdit. Not forgetting to restore the subtitle colours and create a pre-command to switch them of, again with IfoEdit.

I'm a little hazy in this, but I think I then used FixVTS to verify. This seems a long-winded approach but my chapter markers work correctly across the two-disc boundary.

Then I used Shrink to burn a DVD-5. Shrink will not attempt this unless you use the stereo soundtrack. The result was viewable but was a very good example of a grainy picture.

DVD Rebuilder with HcEnc was better then Shrink, but I finally used Rebuilder on a DVD-9 with very good results. Well worth doing!

The only problem is that, since doing all three volumes, I have yet to sit through any of them from beginning to end. Was it worth it? Well...

[ron spencer]

this is the method I originally did....but never did fixvts....never worked as dvd rebuilder said source corrupt...maybe will try again

[m1ckran]

Perhaps you forgot to click the "Get VTS Sectors" button in IfoEdit after rebuilding the IFO's. Apparently, IfoEdit needs this step to update the VOB files, though I'm not sure why it is not done automatically.

But then, I'm no expert.

[setarip_old]

@Ron Spencer

Unless I'm missing something here (Perhaps "the challenge" aspect?):

2 DVD9s>>1 DVD9 = 2 DVD9s>>2DVD5s

It would seem to be a lot simpler (and save you a couple of dollars) to compress and burn each one to a separate disc...

Actually, using 2 DVD5s would make slightly more space available (2x4.37Gb=8.74Gb versus, if I remember correctly, 7.95Gb)

[ron spencer]

@ Setarip....I have about 100 DL blanks here from out of business sale....verbatim. So I want to try this for fun...

@m1ckran I did use get vts sectors....but I will try FixVTS too!!!


@ Wombler

My Extended edition comes out at:

4895 meg for disc 1 (4.78 gig) and
5509 meg for disc 2 (5.38 gig)

total 10404 meg or 10.16 gig

this is over 9999 meg (9.76 gig), so dvd2one for you when joining did compress right? So about 4% compression BEFORE DVD Rebuilder right? Also, the old V1 of dvd2one says max is 9126...did you use V2?

[Video Dude]

The max for DVD can never be above 9216 since you can't have more than 9 vobs for a set.

9 * 1024 = 9216 MB

v2 also has the restriction.

[m1ckran]

Speaking for myself, the challenge was a major motive; I think it was considered impossible (or just crazy) at the time.

This was also a major factor in my doing something similar with Kill Bill, except that I also included the colour version of the Blue Leaves fight from the Japanese version. This was more tricky than LOTR because the Japanese release is NTSC and I'm in PAL-land. That's another story though.

I prefer to view backups of all of my dvd's and put the original away since I accidentally destroyed one disc by scratching it on the tray of my player (LOTR1 SEE disc 2, actually). I also generally dislike having to trawl through legal disclaimers, copyright notices, licencing messages and, last but not least, trailers and advertisements for other products.

It amazes me that people are willing to publish software like DVD Rebuilder (keeping on topic) and other software for very little financial return, and are often willing to help others to make good use of the programs. Thank you, People.

It's clear that there are often many ways to achieve the same result and different people have their own preferences, so good luck ron and enjoy sorting out your own custom method.

[ron spencer]

I am trying something now....will post results later!!!

thanks to all for advice!!!!

[Wombler]

@ Wombler

My Extended edition comes out at:

4895 meg for disc 1 (4.78 gig) and
5509 meg for disc 2 (5.38 gig)

total 10404 meg or 10.16 gig

this is over 9999 meg (9.76 gig), so dvd2one for you when joining did compress right? So about 4% compression BEFORE DVD Rebuilder right? Also, the old V1 of dvd2one says max is 9126...did you use V2?

Nope it's completely uncompressed.

The figures I quoted are those reported by DVD2One.

It comes out at 8.86GB in total according to DVD2One hence the the need to compress slightly to fit DL.

If you take out the extended credits it's 8.45GB.

All I said was you can either do this compression during the combine process or carry it out later with a program of your choice.

Did you keep the DTS audio or the AC3?

The DTS is larger and that might be the difference.


Wombler

[blutach]

Given this has nothing to do with DVDRB, I think I'll move it to One-Clickers.

Regards

[m1ckran]

@ron spencer

Condolences on your eviction.

Have you upset Blu?

[blutach]

Gee Mick,

All I did was move a thread to a more logical place. Didn't close it or anything. HNY mate.

Regards

[m1ckran]

No probs Blu. HNY.

It's just that what Ron is trying to do is, in my opinion, most certainly not a "one-click" solution, and DVDRB is mandatory to finish of the project.

Perhaps it's just an Ausie thing, then?

(notice I didn't mention Indian cricket)

:p

[Wombler]

It's just that what Ron is trying to do is, in my opinion, most certainly not a "one-click" solution, and DVDRB is mandatory to finish of the project.


Not exactly.

We were discussing how to get a combined uncompressed image to run through the transcoder/encoder of your choice.

It just so happens that the thread developed into a discussion of how to use DVD2One (which is 'one-click' software) to achieve this, so I can see Blutach's logic.

BTW the compression required is minimal so it is likely that transcoding would be acceptable to most. That's why I'd suggested the possibility of using DVD2One to compress during the combine phase.

Personally I'd recommend using DVD Rebuilder but it's by no means the only choice.


Wombler