2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:3 Pulldown

[2Bdecided]

Undeda Sega,

The patience people have shown you on these forums (in various threads) is quite amazing, but I fear that you still don't get it.

Maybe someone will write another long explanation, but I think it might be worth you blanking your mind from what you think you know, and reading the thread (and links) again.

Here is a short version (but please read the whole thread again!):

Hard or soft telecine will give the "usual" film look (NTSC = 3-2 pulldown; PAL = two duplicated fields per second) on a TV and in dumb PC software.

Only soft telecine gives the option of a true 24fps (actual film look) when (and only when) the soft telecine flags are ignored e.g. in an intelligent PC DVD player, specific software etc.

The only way of getting true 24fps from hard telecine is to remove it (e.g. in an intelligent PC DVD player, specific software etc), but the quality is still lower for a given bitrate than soft telecine.

Soft telecine is better.

Cheers,
David.

[2Bdecided]

Using a simple Bobber on progressive material will throw away half of the vertical resolution with absolutely no gain in temporal resolution.
I wouldn't call that slightly, but significantly! Also think of the nasty vertical shaking that unavoidably will be introduced by the bobbing filter!That's just what I suggested: it's "slightly" (I used quotes) worse than what you see on a bog standard CRT TV (which adds vertical shaking to perfectly still progressive content), and significantly worse than the best you can do on a PC.

If you want to be lazy, then use a "smart" Deinterlacing filter that will detect an pass-by the progressive frames unprocessed...It needs to be fractionally smarter than that to handle 3-2 pulldown. The point I was making is that if anyone was daft enough to always display 29.97 whole frames per second (and a few players do this by default with formats they don't understand!), they'd probably do less damage if they just bobbed everything.

I agree some intelligence in the process would be great - though occasionally the "intelligence" in PC DVD software makes me hang my head in despair: combing one moment, bobbing the next! At least most have a manual override, though that's kind of an admission of defeat or incompetence.

Cheers,
David.

[Undead Sega]

hi everyone, i am very appreciative of all this, but there is still a cuple of things i want to clear up, even mentioned here.

first off, when inputting a 23.976 soft telecined to 25 clip into VirtualDub MPEG2 and honor the flags, you say it will internally hard telecine it? as in inthe program itself? so it will read it as a 25p video file and not 23.976?

and secondly, from that, a questionth at hasnt ben answered (i think) is that, when frameserving it and the program TMPEG Plus and encoding an MPEG file at either 23.976 or whatever, with 23.976, will that MPEG file be a hard telecined or soft telecined due to it inputting flags while it is encoding?

[Guest]

first off, when inputting a 23.976 soft telecined to 25 clip into VirtualDub MPEG2 and honor the flags, you say it will internally hard telecine it? as in inthe program itself? so it will read it as a 25p video file and not 23.976? Yes, as long as you have a recent version of the program and it is configured to honor the flags. That may be turned on or off, so make sure it is on.

and secondly, from that, a questionth at hasnt ben answered (i think) is that, when frameserving it and the program TMPEG Plus and encoding an MPEG file at either 23.976 or whatever, with 23.976, will that MPEG file be a hard telecined or soft telecined due to it inputting flags while it is encoding? Your question is not fully clear. Soft telecine flags are not preserved through frameserving. So your encoder will not see any flags on its input. If the flags were honored by the frame server, then the encoder will see a hard telecined input and so the output will also be hard telecined.