Trim credits with audio fade

[meRobs]

When using VobBlanker to trim out credits at the end of a movie (Prev/Cut button) the audio is usually cut sharply.
So I tried using the following process:
1. identify cell with credits in VobBlanker
2. use PGCdemux to demux that cell to M2V and AC3
3. convert M2V to AVI in VirtualDubMod with Panasonic DV Codec (AVI is better in Premiere Pro than M2V)
4. convert the AC3 to MP3 in BeLight, since Adobe Premiere will not edit AC3
5. Use Premiere to trim video and fadeout the audio, etc, and Export to M2V and PCM
6. use Muxman to multiplex the M2V and PCM (WAV)
7. use Replace in VobBlanker to replace the last cell of the movie with this new trimmed version.

However, one thing worries me! The above movie audio was AC3, so, does the use of WAV (PCM) in the replaced cell break a DVD rule -- is it legit? -- will it play in standalone players?

Thanks in advance
Robin

[blutach]

The conversion steps seem overkill. Surely any AC3 editor (eg Audacity (http://audacity.sourceforge.net/about/features)) can fade out the AC3 track. Then remux (step 6) and replace (step 7).

Similarly, having PCM only results in a bigger file. AC3 is compressed audio.

Regards

[meRobs]

I converted to AVI and MP3 because I happen to have Premiere Pro as an editor.
Premiere allows me to trim, fade or modify the cell video as well as the option of adding a brief fun or 'signature' segment.
I can also trim and fade the audio to suit.

I do not have an AC3 editor and 'Audacity' that you mention does not claim to handle AC3, which I understand requires a hefty license fee?!
I have GoldWave which will import AC3 and save as WAV (not AC3). In any case, each conversion I made was relatively quick.

If size is an issue I could export from Premiere to an MPA audio file.
However, my concern is merely whether DVD standards allow mixing audio formats in the same title!
Any comment on this?
Thanks.
Robin

[blutach]

Yes, I believe you're right about Audacity. My error.

If you have selected in VobBlanker's options "Copy VTS Audio/Subs from Replacing IFO" then the attributes will be copied over (i.e. if stream 0 was AC3 5.1 and is now LPCM, then that is what it will look like in the final project). This will be OK if there's only 1 title in the VTS.

However, if there's more than one title, you will get into trouble (as stream 0 for TTNs 2 and on will not be LPCM but the original AC3). Best to mux with the streams exactly in their place and add the LPCM as a new stream. This will probably involve menu changes to default audio selection. I'm not explaining it all that well, but I hope you see what I mean.

And certainly, you can mix audio standards - the spec allows for up to 8 audio tracks of AC3, LPCM, DTS and MP2 for each title. See http://www.dvddemystified.com/dvdfaq.html#3.6

Regards

[meRobs]

Les, I cannot follow what you say.
I am fiddling with the last chapter of the main movie title , say VTS_1, and there may be other titles (Extras).
After my change, the last cell of VTS_1 has an LPCM audio whereas the remainder of the title is AC3.

Do these two audio 'signals' occupy the same stream, by default?
If they do, and I "Copy VTS Audio/Subs from Replacing IFO", as you suggest, does this make that stream appear to the user as LPCM when in fact most of the Title is still AC3?

If this is a no go, should I try for the LPCM to be in a different stream? How would I do this?
This may well be too much trouble!
Regards
Robin

[blutach]

Sorry, I misunderstood. I thought the whole movie was now LPCM (which is why I said it would be bigger than AC3).

I think you're in a bit of bother. Irrespective of identification in the IFO, I don't think the first x chapters can be in AC3, while the last one is LPCM.

That setting in VobBlanker only affects the stream IDs in the IFOs.

If LPCM was a totally different stream, you could add it as I indicated earlier as an extra stream (eg. if the VTS domain had 3 streams initially, author LPCM as 0x83 = stream 4). However, if for the whole movie, it would increase the size. You might as well keep the credits!

Or you could try a non-seamless branch. Author the first x chapters in a title all with AC3. After playback is over, jump to a new title with only the last chapter with your faded LPCM. This would be authored as a new stream.

Have you tried to play it yet? Does it play OK? Give it a go.

Regards

[r0lZ]

IMO, the easiest way to do what you want is to use Womble MPEG Video Wizard DVD. It can cut at any point, and fade the audio, including AC3. Furthermore, it re-encodes only the part that has been modified, so that there is no quality loss. Unfortunately, it is not free, and it supports only one audio stream..

[meRobs]

My need to trim/fade credits is infrequent (cannot justify buying an App), eg, in one case the last cell was 4.5 min with only the first 40 sec useful. I tried the above task merely as a challenge. The result plays successfully on the PC (WinDVD) -- I haven't tried a real DVD yet.

I think I will try placing the new trim/fade VOB in an empty (blanked title) and try a jump to it.

As you can see I like to fiddle
Regards
Robin

[blutach]

As you can see I like to fiddleWe all do - we're just tinkerers at heart. There's no fun in just backing up a DVD. :)

Regards

[meRobs]

Oops - now it seems the last cell in movie replaced with its trim/fade version will not play audio (LPCM) in WinDVD -- the previous chapter (AC3) does. I have repeated the replace and still no go.

I replaced an unwanted VTS with this trim clip and, again, WinDVD won't play its audio when viewed as part of the 'DVD", ie, opened the VIDEO_TS folder, yet, the individual VOBs will play their audio when selected as separate files.

AS Les suggested, I tried checking in VobBlanker 'Copy VTS audio/subs tables from replacing IFO' before replacing the cell, but, the new cell is still seen as AC3 in Streams Attributes!!

Lastly, I cannot find any way of jumping from VTS_1, when play is done, to another VTS (all replaced with the new cell)!!
All post commands that jump or link do so only to the same VTS or PGC.

I must be too new at this game.

Any Help out there??
Thanks
Robin

[blutach]

First, to jump from one VTS to another (new) VTS, you must first jump through VMGM (blame the stupid DVD forum for this). So, your post commands from the original title need to Jump to a new PGC in VMGM and that PGC needs to jump to title x in the new VTS.

As for the streams, post the domain stream attributes for the new VTS (Ctrl-A with PgcEdit). Also, post the info for the new title's PGC (Info - PGC). Please have a look inside the VOB of the new VTS (with Vobedit) and let us know how the LPCM stream is identified.

This might be simply a case of not being able to jump to your new title.

The easiest way to author this new VTS is via PgcEdit's Title - Import Title's Closing Clip function. It does all the authoring for you. The only thing you need then do is eliminate the last chapter from the original title using the Remove Cells function.

Remember, by authoring this as a non-seamless branch, you will notice a little pause (like a layer break pause) as it skips to the closing credits title. This might be unnoticeable if the audio starts from silence and the video starts off black.

Regards

[meRobs]

Thanks Les.
That "Import Title's Closing Clip" Macro is great - works like a charm!

You asked about my VOB in VOBedit. The audio packs appear as '[PCM-Audio Pack] 0xa0'.
What do you mean by 'post the domain stream attributes for the new VTS'? Ctrl-A opens the stream attributes window and correctly shows that the audio is LPCM. I assume I can't change this if not correct!

In Muxman, under the Video panel are check circles for PS, LB and Both. Do you know what these are?

Thanks again. You have been an incredible help!
Regards
Robin

[blutach]

Just make sure the video attributes for your new VTS match those of the original. This is easily changed in PgcEdit, if you need to (Ctrl-A).

It sounds like the attributes are OK. If you are using stream 0 in the poriginal (AC3), it will still be stream 0 (LPCM) when it changes to the new VTS. Should be OK.

Regards

[meRobs]

Thanks Les
Cheers
Robin