PGCEdit: Cannot delete uncalled PGC

[mikenadia]

The rip is from Rush Hour 3.
I used the function:"Delete uncalled PGCs " and got the following message: Done.1 uncalled PGC cannot be deleted.You might want to blank it manually.
There must be a reason.
But my question is that after using PGCEdit, I used VOBBlanker and it automatically removed that uncalled PGC:
(deleted unreferenced cells (in the middle of the VOB)).
I tried in VOBlanker settings to avoid that but could not find anything . Is it safe?
Thx

[blutach]

There is a difference in deleting a PGC (from the IFOs) and removing unreferenced material (from the VOBs). Sometimes, a PGC can not be deleted - for example, it may be the only title left in a VTS that has a menu that is somehow called. PgcEdit is advising you to blank that PGC, that's all - no harm done if you don't.

VobBlanker on the other hand, does not touch the PGCs at all (except for killing playback). It removes no PGCs from the IFOs, just blanks material in the VOBs (unreferenced and other that you specify) and fixes the IFOs to ensure they match the newly created project.

I expect your project is safe. Play it in a software player (or do a trace in PgcEdit) to make sure. Also, in PgcEdit, do a Jump to nowhere to see if there are any. If so, there's possibly a cause for worry.

Regards

[mikenadia]

Thx. I understand that the two issues were not related.
VTS1 has 5 Titles.
But, I have many " Jump to Nowhere " , all of them in VTSM1 LU1 with the command Jumpto TTN1 Chapter 18 and when I loaded the DVD, I had the following message:
Warning in VMG_TT_SRPT table!
The Titles 1 and 3 are assigned to the same PGC (VTS 1, PGC 1.)
This strange authoring might be illegal, but it's not sure.
Since Title 3 is not the last one in the table, PgcEdit cannot remove it.
If you want, you should remove it with IfoEdit.
You will have to verify that is is not called with Info -> Find Jumps to Nowhere.
If there are jumps to Title 3, replace them with jumps to Title 1.
I do not have any jump to Title 3 , I am not familiar with IFOEdit, and the guides I looked at (from 2Cool ) were obsolete (according to him ) or were referring to PGCEdit.
I have no idea if all of this is related and could you tell me whether it is a bad rip or a bad original authoring.
Also, if I do not have "Jump to nowhere","Jump to void PGCs" and "unreferenced PGCs" (loading PGCEdit straight from the rip), could I consider my rip good (or should I look at other things: timemaps...).
Thx for your patience.

[blutach]

This is obviously very poor authoring or some kind of protection. If the latter, I strongly doubt that title 3 is ever actually called. I'd just leave it alone. Check by selecting the VTST concerned and running Info - Calls from VMG to current VTS. This should show all calls to titles from VMG. The only other calls can be from menu buttons and commands in the current VTS. Check them, too. But I'd bet $1 that this title is never called. If you really wanna remove it, use Title - Remap title numbers to move title 3 to the bottom of the table. OK and do a delete uncalled PGCs.

Check if your Jumps to nowhere are from buttons (including BOVs) which are accessible or not. If the jump was only from a button (pink X-ref in PgcEdit) and that button could never be reached, then the jump is also harmless. Nevertheless, you might wanna change these jumps to NOPs or remove the button entirely by hiding it (my preference).

If there are no Jumps to nowehere, void PGCs or unreferenced PGCs (in which case, the PGC isn't unreferenced since there is a jump to it), your rip is probably OK - depending on whether the ripper is compliant. I have seen discussions recently about rips which were not compliant. Timemaps are a pretty minor thing, but its always useful to check them. Usually, your transcoder will fix these anyway.

Regards

[r0lZ]

BTW, I have just removed that outdated part of the message about IfoEdit, because it is now possible to remove the title with PgcEdit, as explained by blutach.

Oh, and if you need to copy the content of a dialog in a forum, there is an easy way: just right-click on the dialog, to copy its text to the clipboard, and paste it here before closing PgcEdit.

[mikenadia]

You (both blutach and r0lZ) are the best.
Some kind of protection.
Yes, Title 3 is never called (I will not bet with you!).
The "Jump to Nowhere" buttons were being called (I selected the button and click on " Go to calling command").
I followed your advice and wanted to hide those buttons.
But they were already hidden.
One unnecessary button per menu.
So I did nothing (not even removing Title 3 or should I?).
Another silly protection.
Thx a lot again to both of you.
P.S. The message I got in the first post
"Done.1 uncalled PGC cannot be deleted.You might want to blank it manually."
was perfectly valid (last title of a menu that is called). I just got confused by the last sentence of the message:No harm if I do not blank it but my question is that if I am advised to do it manually, why PGCEdit does not do it (even with a required confirmation) and if I should not do it, may be do not count them.

[blutach]

You can always hide the button, which will change its command to link top cell and highlight the next visible button.

If the DVD plays fine, and you don't 100% know what you're doing, just leave it alone.

Regards

[mikenadia]

I 'll leave it alone.Thx a lot.

[r0lZ]

if I am advised to do it manually, why PGCEdit does not do it (even with a required confirmation) and if I should not do it, may be do not count them.I have changed that too in the current version of PgcEdit, to be released soon. The method is now semi-automatic.

The problem is that this message is issued when the DVD is parsed by PgcEdit. At that time, the DVD is still not fully loaded, and I cannot do important things such as deleting a PGC without knowing everything about the DVD. However, it is possible to remove the title automatically at load time if it is the last one, and if the PGC is the last one in the VTST domain. Therefore, in the new version, PgcEdit offers to delete it when it's possible, or it warns you and suggests to move the title at the end, then save and reload the DVD. If you do so, when the DVD is reloaded, PgcEdit should be able to delete the title automatically. You will still have to fix the navigation manually.

Anyway, if you haven't created yourself those duplicated title entries, they should not hurt, and you can safely leave them in place (although, personally, I prefer to remove all traces of the protection.)

[mikenadia]

r0lZ, I did not create those entries and will leave them in place.Things look easy when you explain them to us,newbies.Thx a lot for your insights and your program. Those Title removals could also be made at saving time if it fits better the program logic.
P.S. I went and look at previous rips and found in Pirates 3 , 2 links to void PGCs (2 pre-commands : should I Do nothing or may I delete them, redirect them to another PGC or NOP them or else...).

[blutach]

I don't like links to void PGCs. They are probably never executed, but best to either:

1. Delete the commands referring to void PGCs; or

2. Put a command in the void PGC that says Call the First Play PGC (technically better). If you are a real purist, you can also zero all gprms with PGC --> Reset Used GPRMs to 0 prior to the command to call the FP PGC.

Remember, if a jump to a void PGC is executed, the only thing that happens is your player stops and exits.

Regards

[mikenadia]

Thx, blutach.

[blutach]

The next release of PgcEdit will have a function that searches for and deletes jumps to void PGCs.

Regards

[r0lZ]

More exactly, it will replace them by NOP commands.

[mikenadia]

Waiting for the Xmas gift. Do not make it too easy for us!:)
P.S. Unrelated question: You both use PGCEdit before transcoding (I do the same). Besides the 32k gaps issue , can we do it after. Thx again.

[blutach]

Yes, of course - but it's little use to remove titlesets afterwards as no space is saved. However, you might like to remove menu bttons, and change the command structure (eg Jump 2 PGC).

Regards

[mikenadia]

r0lZ, I do not want to create a new thread for this, but , if you think it is worth it, I may suggest to have an automatic way to change those grpm from sprm(13) to 15 in the "Remove parental management" because the number of pre-commands can vary from 2 to 20 (either through settings or an additionnal confirmation).

[r0lZ]

Is it really so hard to edit some commands manually? Each edit requires a few clicks, that's right, but IMO it's easy enough. Also, a good ripping program should already have an option to do that automatically. It should also be possible to use the Search and Replace plugin to automate this task. Furthermore, I have not a good understanding of that kind of protection, as here in Europe, this protection is extremely rare.

[EDIT]
To replace the Set commands with the Search and Replace plugin, use:

Search string:
61 .. .. .. .. 8D .. ..
Replace string:
71 .. .. .. .. 0F .. ..

This method searches only the regular Set command, not the variants such as CSetCLnk or SetGPRMMD, but should be sufficient in most cases. Anyway, verify if all occurrences of SPRM 13 have been removed, and replace the subsequent occurrences manually if necessary.

[mikenadia]

Thx. I did not think about the Search and Replace function.