H.264 in .mov container; possible with Sorenson Squeeze?

[zillax0rz]

It seems clear; H.264 is the way to go at the moment. I'm using Sorenson Squeeze 4.5 and it appears I can only encode to a .mp4 container and not .mov. Is this true?

Now there's the Sorenson Video 3 Pro codec, but that's wannabe H.264. I do see a codec listed as Apple MPEG4 Compressor, but I'm not sure what exactly that is.

So will I be able to convert old SV3P .movs into H.264 .movs with Sorenson Squeeze? If not, what's my alternative?

[Blue_MiSfit]

Apple MPEG4 Compressor,


Likely Apple's DREADFUL MPEG-4 SP codec.

[LoRd_MuldeR]

AFAIK Apple's MOV container is nothing but a subset of the MP4 container.
And since QuickTime now supports MP4 (do they still use MOV at all now?), there should be no reason to use MOV nowadays.
The last time I downloaded a HD Trailer from Apple's site, it was MP4 too.

BTW: In MPlayer there is no difference between MP4 and MOV, they both use the "MOV Demuxer" ;)

[foxyshadis]

Well, aside from the hundreds of non-mpeg4 codecs mov supports. mp4 is more of a subset of mov with a few new flags than vice versa.

[LoRd_MuldeR]

Well, aside from the hundreds of non-mpeg4 codecs mov supports. mp4 is more of a subset of mov with a few new flags than vice versa.

Hmm, okay. But we can agree that MOV and MP4 are pretty similar container :)
I guess the biggest difference is that MP4 has been established as the new "default" container (even in Hardware Players) while MOV is still specific to Apple/Quicktime.
Since even Apple has decided to move forward to MP4, I think MOV should be history now...

[qyot27]

The last time I downloaded a HD Trailer from Apple's site, it was MP4 too.
How long ago was that? All the stuff I've encountered on there has been in MOV, but then again I've not downloaded anything from Apple's site for a couple weeks now.

[LoRd_MuldeR]

How long ago was that? All the stuff I've encountered on there has been in MOV, but then again I've not downloaded anything from Apple's site for a couple weeks now.
Maybe ~6 month ago, I guess. But I might be mistaken...

[foxyshadis]

Nah, Apple's just weird about it. They'll post some h.264 in mp4, some h.264 in mov, and some svq3 (still!) in mov. Not much rhyme or reason, but most things are still h.264 in mov right now.

Fortunately, you can just rename the mov to mp4 and have one that's compatible, or remux if you need mp4-specific hinting flags.

[Blue_MiSfit]

Yep. I remember when I was first testing CoreAVC I would remux their MOV / MP4s to MKV, and that would make DirectShow play.

The difference between QuickTime decoding a 1080p H.264 and CoreAVC -> VMR9 on Media Player Classic was shocking. One was a total slideshow, the other was less than 50%, smooth as butter.

One guess as to which was faster ;)

~MiSfit

[LoRd_MuldeR]

Yep. I remember when I was first testing CoreAVC I would remux their MOV / MP4s to MKV, and that would make DirectShow play.

The difference between QuickTime decoding a 1080p H.264 and CoreAVC -> VMR9 on Media Player Classic was shocking. One was a total slideshow, the other was less than 50%, smooth as butter.

One guess as to which was faster ;)

~MiSfit
I once downloaded a 720p trailer from Apple and tried to play it in QuickTime on my old AthlonXP.
The result was a (slow!) slideshow and the whole system freezing! :mad:

After I managed to kill QuickTime, I played the same video in MPlayer (with internal lavc decoder).
It played perfectly smooth !!!

Is there anything left to say about Appel's/QuickTime's H.264 capabilities ??? :p

[Drachir]

...mp4 is more of a subset of mov with a few new flags than vice versa.
That is a common myth, but not true. This myth comes from people, which mistake the ISO Base Media File Format(ISO/IEC14496-12) with the MP4 File Format(ISO/IEC14496-14).

Here are two picture which show the difference bettween the ISO Base Media File Format and the MP4 File Format:

ISO Base Media File Format(ISO/IEC14496-12)
http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/5988/14449612it2.th.jpg (http://img508.imageshack.us/my.php?image=14449612it2.jpg)
MP4 File Format(ISO/IEC14496-14)
http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/494/14449714rj9.th.jpg (http://img241.imageshack.us/my.php?image=14449714rj9.jpg)

For more information take a look here: http://www.chiariglione.org/mpeg/technologies/mp04-ff/index.htm

From the features provided by MPEG-4, I would compare it with Adobe(Macromedia) Flash or Microsoft Silverlight. I wouldn't call this a subset of the QuickTime framework.

[zillax0rz]

So... any ideas on how to make the .mp4s I'm encoding to have the .mov file extension?

[Sharktooth]

why on earth do you need .mov?!?
didnt you read the replies?

[LoRd_MuldeR]

For more information take a look here: http://www.chiariglione.org/mpeg/technologies/mp04-ff/index.htm

Interesting :)

To sum up: First there was the Apple QT/MOV container. Later "ISO Base Media" was specified as a generalization of the MOV container, not specific to a certain file format. Now MOV can be defined as a subset (specialization) of ISO Base Media. And there are more file formats derived from ISO Base Media: MP4, 3GPP, MJPEG-2000 and so on. So neither MP4 is a subset of MOV nor vice versa! They are both derived from the same abstraction, the ISO Base Media format (like both, WAVE and AVI, are derived from RIFF). Right?


http://www.chiariglione.org/mpeg/technologies/mp04-ff/image002.gif


So... any ideas on how to make the .mp4s I'm encoding to have the .mov file extension?

If you ask this way, then the reply is: Rename them! :p

[zillax0rz]

If you ask this way, then the reply is: Rename them! :p

When I rename and attempt to view, I get an Error -2048 and that it's not a recognized Quicktime file.

[Stux]

Truth is that MP4v1 was a refined subset of QT/MOV with some additional MPEG-4 specific features (which are backported to MOV)

THEN things changed with MP4v2. The abstract part of MP4v1 (ie the base media format) was ripped out and became ISO File Format, and the MPEG-4 specific parts when then cleaned up a bit more and based on the ISO fileformat.

Other file formats have now been designed based on ISO, including AVC, and some inherit from MP4v2 as well.

In a final twist, the latest version of the Mov format, more or less inherits from ISO now too.

[foxyshadis]

That's good to know, I had never considered that there are two versions of the mp4 container. That puts a lot of competing information I've seen into perspective.