LOTRE rip audio off by 45 MINUTES!

[pfurrie]

The disc:
Disc 1, Fellowship of the Rings

The software:
DVD Decrypter 3.5.4.0

The problem:
Am ripping using "stream processing" in order to generate seperate audio and video files. After ripping, I check the length of each when played.
Audio: 1:45:36
Video: 1:03:55

When doing the stream processing, streams 0xE0 (video - 720x480 NTSC / 16:9) and 0x80 (audio - AC3 / 6ch / English) were selected, everything else de-selected. Stream processing was set to "Demux." Had tried this both with "PGC 1" and "PGC 2" (which both seem to have exactly the same length of 01:45:30).

When checking both audio and video after the rip, they both seem to start at the same spot (beginning of the movie) and end at the same spot (fellowship of the ring has just been formed). Audio seems to sound correct. And spot checking of video shows it to look correct. But if I play the video at any point, audio is off by a HUGE amount (many minutes).

I've tried this on two different computers but had the same results. And I've used both computers for ripping many other DVDs with no problem (though typically don't use stream processing).

I'm demuxing as I'd like to use Cuttermaran to join up the two halves of the movie, and the program needs demuxed streams as an input (at least that's how I've done it with other DVD content I've had to edit).

Any thoughts? This isn't a trivial sync issue. I tried to imagine something like a problem with dealing with audio rates or frame rates which aren't determined correctly, but nothing which could account for such an enormous descrepancy.

Thanks

Pat

[setarip_old]

Hi!

As an experiment, try re-ripping the disc, using DVD Decrypter in "File" mode and rip "Movie only".

Does this also result in mismatched audio and video of significantly different lengths?

[FrozenDog]

Sounds like a crc error in the audio file. Try running it thru delaycut v1212 (http://jsoto.posunplugged.com/audiotools.htm) and choose 'Fix CRC errors'. You could also try demuxing with DGIndex instead of DVD Decrypter.

Good Luck.

[pfurrie]

Sounds like a crc error in the audio file. Try running it thru delaycut v1212 (http://jsoto.posunplugged.com/audiotools.htm) and choose 'Fix CRC errors'. You could also try demuxing with DGIndex instead of DVD Decrypter.

Good Luck.

Thanks. However, since that segment of the movie is supposed to be 1:45:xx, and the audio segment is nearly right on but the video is 42 minutes short, wouldn't the problem be with the video?

Pat

[setarip_old]

@pfurrie

Would you be good enough to try what I suggested - and report the results back here?

[FrozenDog]

Sorry, your thread title implied that the audio was off. If the video is the culprit, then run it thru DGPulldown (http://neuron2.net/dgpulldown/dgpulldown.html) and tick 'No change - Set timecodes - Set start time 00:00:00:00' to rewrite timecodes.

[leftkidney]

I had the same problem with the same movie all 3 of those movies actually and the only thing I could think of was the ammount of compression there was just to fit it on 1 disc

when I used DVD Decrypter in ISO Read then ISO Write to a dual layer disc no problems there

[pfurrie]

I had the same problem with the same movie all 3 of those movies actually and the only thing I could think of was the ammount of compression there was just to fit it on 1 disc

when I used DVD Decrypter in ISO Read then ISO Write to a dual layer disc no problems there

In my case, I'm not writing back to an optical disc. After the halves of the movie have been cut together, I run it through HandBrake to make an H.264 encoded MP4, and store it on the home media server. But that's really beside the point -- I'm getting no joy at the Cuttermaran step. Oh, Cuttermaran loads up the files, sure enough, but the audio "sync" is a joke. When I looke at the component files (.m2v and .ac3), they're of such massively different lengths, its pointless.

Pat

[leftkidney]

why cant you just use handbrake to start with

it will do the same thing and give you the option of what format you want it in


duh you said you had to combine then I didnt see that

really someone probably did this already just download it using torrents

[blutach]

@leftkidney

Please do not encourage people to use torrents. Read rule 6.

Regards

[leftkidney]

@leftkidney

Please do not encourage people to use torrents. Read rule 6.

Regards

yea oops thought this was a site about cracking encryption on DVD's and such, isnt that about breaking rules as well

didnt think it was encouragement since if you already bought the movie but cant back it up why shouldnt you get it that way

but yea it was a violation of the rules sorry

[blutach]

isnt that about breaking rules as well
No, it isn't. We support the legal backup of digital video, not pirating.

Regards

[pfurrie]

@pfurrie

Would you be good enough to try what I suggested - and report the results back here?

Yes, absolutely.

I did try it, though didn't get me far. Here's what happened:
Using DVD Decrypter to rip in FILE mode doesn't allow for the elementary streams to be seperated (or if it does, I couldn't find the means to do it). Without seperate audio and video files, I had no way to determine the lengths of each seperately.

HOWEVER... on another route, I tried the suggestion of FrozenDog, who pointed me to DGPulldown (the neuron2.net site is amazing; first I've seen of it). When I tried it the way FrozenDog suggested, I ended up with the same massively out-of-sync results (fortunately, I was just testing on the first chapter of disc one of Fellowship of the Ring).

I had planned on giving this report after I'd completely finished my testing (I'm still running processes as I type this), but, well, here it is now.

Even though FD's suggestion didn't work outright, I thought, maybe, just perhaps... let's try it with different settings. First, I tried changing from "No change" to "23.976 --> 29.97" and rerunning the convert. After the run, the files still show the exact same length to the files (when seen in Media Player) -- audio is about 7:30 while video is 4:something. WAY off. But then it struck me: perhaps it isn't meant to make it look right when viewing it this way. Maybe I need to re-mux them and check them out again.

I'm using IfoEdit to combine the streams back to VOBs, which is pretty fast for this one chapter. The original "No change" version of the streams proved to still have the audio sync issue. But the "23.976 --> 29.97" attempt was MUCH closer. I moved near the end of the clip to find the one bit of dialogue being spoken on-screen (so I could watch lip-sync). It was *very* close (though I thought it looked slightly off, just barely). Well, what the heck, what about "24 --> 29.97"? I ran that through DGPulldown, then through IfoEdit, and bingo! Exactly in sync!

What I don't get is why. Why should this disc be different, and why should any of the stuff being ripped from a studio disc be wanting to be run 29.97? But I do know that, for that one chapter, this works.

I'm just finishing up getting the last bit of the two discs converted with DGPulldown, at which point I'll try splicing them together with Cuttermaran, and then mux them with IfoEdit, and finally transcode them with HandBrake. Whew! My next question is: why can't some of these pieces of software be rolled into a single ap which automagically gets you from here to there in a single click, without all this monkey-motion? Granted, the people who've produced these programs *and* offered them up to all of us for no cost are terrific, but I'm surprised nobody (that I've seen) has worked at a higher level to stitch the lower level code into something which can churn this stuff out.

Finally, to LeftKidney: I appreciate the effort, though downloading the movie seems to go against the spirit of trying to no be stealing the movie. Yes, I agree, if I already have purchased the disc, I'm not infringing (in spirit) the copyright of the studios any more than ripping myself; I'd just be sharing in some generous third-party's gracious sharing of their effort to do a potentially difficult rip and transcode. If it could just be that easy, this would be great (we would all pay for the rights to each movie, but then could get it in whatever form, such as downloading). It would be wonderful. And I don't have an issue with torrent per se, in as much as it is cool idea to send out files in a distributed manner such as that; it's a great technical answer for sending out popular files. Don't dis the technology based on how it is being used and by whom. That being said, I feel the best way (an unfortunate reality) is for me to rip and transcode my own stuff.

And to digress even further: I did suggest to someone at some point (somewhere), that it would be great if some of these transcode programs could come up with a means of users sharing at least the first-pass analysis information when transcoding. This isn't the movie itself, and would have zero copyright protection. It is only a description of the complexity of the movie as it relates to time (more or less). For those of us doing two-pass transcodes, we're all generating essentially the exact same content in that first pass. This is a huge amount of redundant effort. If the movies or media to which they're associated have any unique identifier in the metadata, then the first-pass data could be databased somewhere and shared. This way, when the next person comes along to transcode their copy of LOTRE, their transcode program could go out on the 'net and check to see if someone else has already created and shared the first-pass analysis. If so, the program could download it (presumably much faster than re-generating the data itself), thereby speeding up the transcode process for everyone else. Remember, that data is nothing more (or much more) than "this section of the film has a lot of action, so give more bits here" or vice-versa.

I'll post again after I've finished and checked FOTR... I'd really like to move on to all the other discs I have to transcode!

Thanks

Pat

[leftkidney]

No, it isn't. We support the legal backup of digital video, not pirating.

Regards

its not legal to backup a movie if you have to crack the encryption on the disc (at least here in the states) so that alone isnt legal to do for about 99% of all commercially produced movies

programs that let you crack the encryption are illegal (in the states at least)

but anyways who cares about this crap

a merry Christmas and happy new year to all - oh yea honicka as well

[leftkidney]

but about your problem

cant you use dvd shrink and use the reauthor mentod and just pick the movies then selfs

as for combining them together, I would like to know if there is a simple program that can just combine 2 parts together without the need for re-encoding or anything like that, just join them together like the stacking option in XBMC works

I have been looking for something like this for some time now and the only thing I do is use XBMC to play the movies and let it combine it for me as it plays

[blutach]

@leftkidney

Unless you are a senior - and I mean very senior - IP attorney, please do not tell us your view as to what is legal and what is not. We are not a forum that discusses the fine points of IP law - we are into digital video and audio. However, I can encourage you to read Doom9's discussion on the DMCA, accessible on our home page (http://www.doom9.org/dmca_revealed.htm).

Now, please enough of your prognostications. Let's stay on topic.

Regards

[setarip_old]

@pfurrieI did try it, though didn't get me far. Here's what happened:
Using DVD Decrypter to rip in FILE mode doesn't allow for the elementary streams to be seperated (or if it does, I couldn't find the means to do it). Without seperate audio and video files, I had no way to determine the lengths of each seperately.The reason for the experiment was to determine if the file mode rip of the "movie only", when played back, exhibited the same problematic behavior as your "stream processing" files - or do the audio and video maintain synch...