To MB1 : De-interlacing question

[crapcake]

Hi, i couldn't PM you so i'm posting here my question
i heard that you are the expert in the field of DE-interlacing
can u explain me or send me to a link with explenation on the setting of the
smart de-interlace, and what they do ?

10x :)

[mb1]

Strictly avoid deinterlacing of interlaced source if you do mpeg2-encoding !

That´s one of the major advantages mpeg2 has over all other encoding formats (such as mpeg1, divx, mpeg4).

I don´t know a site with detailed explanation of smart deinterlacer options ´cause even its author doesn´t explain it on his homepage.

If you want to have best settings tell your source and what you want as a result.
But my tests brought best quality with greedy hma within avisynth.

[Mozart]

I'm sorry mb1. It was me who said him to ask for your help. Please, have a look at here (http://rilanparty.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13191) to understand better what happens. The homepage linked there has a good picture where some settings of smartdeinterlace (such as mode/treshold) are used. This post is just because of that page. Surely it was my fault to mixed up everything.

[mb1]

ahh, ok, now I know more :)
Mozart, of course no need for excuses ;)

Tripod has kicked my site because of traffic.

You can find the deinterlacing site here:
http://members.s2u.org/hobby/mb1svcd/deinterlacing.htm
or here
http://www.q-berts.org/dvd/anleitungen/svcd/mb1/deinterlacing.htm

but as told before don´t deinterlace for svcd encoding
(disadvantage: interlaced encoding needs up to 20-30% higher bitrate).

normal tv sets play all material interlaced (even progressive sources) as it´s their physical destination ;)
Of course I don´t talk about progressive tv-sets which are pretty modern and expensive ;)

If you have bad interlaced encoding you have normally wrong settings.

[waldok]

MB1 (Hi Mozart by the way, how's Brazil these days ?)

I have the weirdest problem of all and maybe someone here will help.

I must confess I already posted this in the SVCD forum but no valid answer for the moment.

Here it is :

I encode old analoge 8mm tapes to SVCD. I want to keep the interlaced of course, but nothing works.
Whatever field order I select in CCE, I always have the same well known 'jumpy' moving scenes.
If I deinterlace, everything is OK, but I don't like the 'blur' it introduces and I WANT to stay interlaced.

Here is exactly what I did :

Capture 8mm tapes to AVI using PicVideo MJPEG codec, quality settings at max.
Encode with CCE, my usual SVCD settings.
Authored with TSCV
Burned with CDRWin.

I tried Upper field first, then lower field first but always a wrong result.

Can you help on this one ? I can't seem to find any solution to this weird problem.

Thanx in advance

Waldok:confused:

[mb1]

Field order bug with cce, maybe !
But I gave you the answer some minutes ago in your posting in the svcd section
http://rilanparty.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13279

[waldok]

Ooops, sorry, so much for crossposting (I'm a bad guy ;)

I'll go and check there. Thanx.

Waldok.

[crapcake]

MB1 & Mozart, i hope i didn't do, ask , or broke any rules here by asking this, and that mozart forward me to mb1
mozart i saw u apologised to mb1 for telling me to ask him, so i hope i havn't casued and
harm here.
simply looking for some answers, that's all :)
anyway 10x to both for the answers , problem solved :)

[crapcake]

MB1
as i said before i am using DVD2SVCD, tried few DVD's and if i don't choose "blend" in the de-interlacing i get distortion in fast motions, looks like in the pictures from your site that went dead.
now, u say not to use de-interlace in svcd, which is exactly what i need from dvd, but it looks perfect only if use de-interlace "blend" mode,
so i guess other settings are not correct, what can it be ???
forgive me , as i am VERY new at this area :)

[mb1]

@crapcake
the deinterlacing site is not dead. I´ve posted some links above.

do you control your mpeg´s on a pc monitor ?
this is wrong, ´cause monitors can´t handle interlaced material (they are always progressiv and for that show typical interlaced structures).

on tv-sets you can´t see interlaced structures as it always shows them interlaced.

picture 1: original interlaced dv

picture 2: blend fields together (best) virtual dub

picture 3: duplicate field 1

picture 4: Smart Deinterlacer 2.6 with settings:
- frame-and-field-differencing
- motion map denoising
- motion threshold: 10
- scene change threshold: 50
this are not even the best possible settings ;)

picture 5: like picture 4 + virtual dubs sharpen filter (12)

picture 6: avisynth with script
SeparateFields
SelectOdd
BicubicResize(720,576,0,1.0)

picture 7: avisynth with GreedyHMA (automatic)

picture 8: like picture 7 + virtual dubs sharpen filter (15)

picture 9: "bad" simulation of tv-picture´s sharpness (not deinterlaced)

If you use DVD2SVCD (I don´t) manually correct your avs-script and deinterlace with greedyhma

Some sort of example:
LoadPlugin("x:\AVISynth\GreedyHMA\GreedyHMA.dll")
clip = AVISource("x:\dvd.avi")
return clip.GreedyHMA(1,0,4,0,0,0,0,0) #for NTSC

# GreedyHMA(T,0,4,0,0,0,0,0) # the all purpose most automatic setting (NTSC), or
# GreedyHMA(T,0,1,0,0,0,0,0)# the all purpose most automatic setting (PAL)

Don´t have the best (or possibly correct) syntax in my head ;)
Have to look also first into documentation ...

hope that helps a bit
but as I said don´t deinterlace if you need not.
normally you simply haven´t the correct settings but I´m not familiar with DVD2SVCD. That´s too automatic and too problematic (buggy) for me.

[Mozart]

@ mb1

as you said here (http://rilanparty.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13279), this is probably a CCE_field_order_bug problem. Once pulldown is in DVD2SVCD package also, it could be used to solve this problem. Just tell me your opinion about this...

btw: please, don't say that DVD2SVCD is buggy. It just have some... ehrr..."hidden features";)

[mb1]

Yes you´re right Mozart.

I mentioned field order problem already above with link.
And said that it is a wrong setting or more precisely wrong result.
Problem with cce is it´s only in combination with certain mpeg2 codecs. It´s a problem with ligos codec and not with elecard or vice versa ...

integrated pulldown.exe would surely help.
certain dvd-players require also to delete the first frame of the mpg because they otherwise lift up the whole movie one pixel which also leads to uncorrect picture.

Sometimes I´m a little amused about dvd2svcd users. look at all their problems, also some ... ehmm ... features, and those thousands of postings here.
They flood also many other forums ;)
I do it step by step with mostly the same progs and have no problem at all.
If dvd2svcd would work as surely mentioned I think it would be a great program.
Could it be possible to integrate edwin´s aviwrapper (flask is a piece of shit, don´t know why he hangs on it), so dvd2svcd could be used with more programs.
But I think I have read already that the author "dvd2svcd" is not willing to change that ...

regards
mb1

... and don´t take my prattling to serious ;)

[crapcake]

@MB1
i would like to say on behalf of DVD2SVCD that this is an amazing software
the svcd it produced for me is in one word "amazing"
i didn't get even one single bug from all that is mentioned in the forums.
didn't stuck in the middle of the proccess no module got stuck, just pressed go
and 2 cue/bin came out several hours later.
with the correct settings it is the 1st and last tool i would ever need :)
ofcorse i understand what u said about 20-30% more cause of the unneccesery de-interlacing
but the final result is to my opinion perfect !!

[raistlin]

hi mb1, i'm wondering if you can help me on this. I've got a PAL Interlaced DVD but it always gives to ugly large blocks on some scenes. I've tried both to leave it interlaced and deinterlace it with different method but still the ugly blocks appear. The bitrate used is around 2100-2400 depending on the length as I want to fit it on a cd.
It will be great is you can tell me what settings i should use or maybe point me to a url with info on this. TIA.

[user]

Hi MB1,

'cause of my new 80 GB HD, I am changing from your SVCD method no. 3 to no. 4, "The Real AVI Way".
What an amazing win of speed !

Sources are vob files, sometimes non interlaced, sometimes interlaced.

The SVCDs have a resulting average bitrate between 1600 and 2300 kbit/s, video bitrate, res. 480x576 (with yours and Angels optimizations regarding resizing, cropping), all VBR, min. 1000, max. 3500 kbit/s

They are shown via DVD/SVCD-player on TV, beamer to big wall, and on PC-monitor.
So the SVCDs have to be flexible.

The interlaced ones, what to do ?

Previously via pseudo avi, I deinterlaced in avisynth, with Bobdeinterlacing, described in your method nr. 3.
This worked well.

But now I cannot Bobdeinterlace...

Your way:
vob (DVD2avi) -> d2v (vfapi reader 1.04) -> fvapi-avi -> VirtualDub (resizing, LeadTools 1003) -> real avi -> CCE 2.62 -> mpv

Where should I deinterlace ?
Or don't I need to deinterlace ?
Is it already done in VD1.4d, using standard resizing filter (eg. 720x576 to 448x542 (for 4:3) ) ?
(that I have read somewhere ?)

The resulting SVCD should look well on PC, DVDplayer2beamer2"white_wall", TV (Scart_RGB and Composite)

[mb1]

1Hi user (Hallo Anwender),

so u think u have plenty of space now ;)

First let me say SVCDs should be encoded interlaced (if the source is interlaced). See also results of my deinterlacing tests (link way above).

Ok, u have decided to deinterlace ´cause u want to see SVCDs on every output media (tv, beamer, monitor). This is a decision to decrease quality (see my deinterlacing tests ;) ).

Bob deinterlacing is a bad method (see my tests ;) ). I prefer to do deinterlacing within avisynth (most quality filtering). U can achieve best quality with GreedyHMA or Decomb filters ...

So your way should be:
d2v - avisynth (deinterlacing and resizing for more speed) - Virtual Dub (use LeadTools 1.0.0.11 from Tsunami Filterpack 3.9.3) - Real-avi - CCE 2.62

Try to avoid vfapi !

Maybe u would like to give informations about movie name and coded film pixel to give u more precise support ...

[user]

Hi,

I have chosen Bobdeinterlace sometimes ago, with method 3.
Yesterday I have read your tests about deinterlacing (I did also the setup and first encoding tests of method 4 yesterday) and so I was very unsure what to do, because the result is clearly: best is: no deinterlacing.

But for PC and beamer it must be done ?