Nero Recode 3 (Nero 8.2) released

[kozak]

Today finally Nero 8.2.3.0 was released that includes Nero Recode 3.0.3.0 with quite a few changes/improvements/bug fixes, so I think this deserves a new thread. It can be downloaded as of this moment at the official Nero web site.

Installation process improved: I did not have to uninstall previous version; Nero features selected previously were autodetected and selected by default in custom install (don't have to uncheck a bunch that are not needed)

After a quick look, some new options for Nero Digital AVC encoder:

AVC Interface rearranged quite a bit (subjective impression - for the better)
Tips to show what each option does
Lanczos resize
Color correction / denoise plugins (may be great for old grainy video; may be possible to add custom plugins?)
Option to preserve AC3 audio; supports DTS (?)
Interlaced encoding
Adaptive motion compensation
8x8 Transform (previously only available in HDTV AVC profile)

Encoding speed seems slightly improved
Encoding speed counter (frames/sec) seems more in touch with reality (but too jumpy, some smoothing should be done)
By default, old AVC profiles are gone, but can be restored in More/Options/Nero Digital.

Now we just need to learn how to use all the new features optimally.

Cheers.

[Kurtnoise]

Houston, we've got a problem...

********** Nero Recode **********

Version: 3.0.3.0

lionel

xxxx-xxxx-xxxx-xxxx-xxxx-xxxx-xxxx

Project type: Nero Digital
Compilation name: Mon disque
Target size: Custom (17920)

16:03:39 File LangStreamPatcher.cpp, Line 56
Command table patching started...

16:03:39 File LangStreamPatcher.cpp, Line 129
All tables successfully patched!

Burn settings:
Target: Hard disk folder
Number of copies: 1
Target folder: D:\Users\lionel\Documents\Nero Recode (63111311360 bytes free)
Shutdown when finished: false
Advanced Analysis: false
Compress Adaptive: false

16:03:42 File BurnNDigital.cpp, Line 244
NeroDigital: init

16:03:42 File BurnNDigital.cpp, Line 342
NeroDigital: burning 17920 sectors (0 required)

16:03:42 File BurnNDigital.cpp, Line 381
NeroDigital: Adjusting target size

16:03:42 File BurnNDigital.cpp, Line 423
NeroDigital: beginning 1st-pass operation

16:03:42 File BurnNDigital.cpp, Line 954
NeroDigital: encode Test

16:03:42 File BurnNDigital.cpp, Line 975
Nth-pass file = D:\Users\lionel\AppData\Local\Temp\\Testa03152.bin

The source filter/splitter does not accept SetPositions!
16:03:43 File BurnNDigital.cpp, Line 1076
failed to run graph: 0x80040207

16:03:43 File BurnNDigital.cpp, Line 828
Une erreur est survenue dans DirectShow. Échec d'exécution du graphique. [translation: error has come in DirectShow. Unable to play the graph]

16:03:43 File BurnNDigital.cpp, Line 829
NeroDigital: compiling volume failed

16:03:43 File BurnNDigital.cpp, Line 284
NeroDigital: exit

16:03:43 File burner.cpp, Line 1729
Une erreur est survenue dans DirectShow. Échec d'exécution du graphique.

OS : Vista 32bits
input : a simple avs script like this:
Source=ImageSource("D:\Tor_\ED\%05d.png", start=1934, end=2059, fps=23.976)
Source=LanczosResize(Source, 640, 336)
Source=ConvertToYV12(source, matrix="Rec709")
return source

output: Nero Digital AVC profile + all default settings.

the script plays fine in graphedit (not using nero filters) and in any dshow players.

what's wrong ?

edit: Here is a workaround to solve this problem. (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1078466#post1078466)

[mediator]

looking into it...

AVISynth import is still somewhat limited (we haven't yet been able to fully workaround problems triggered by the AVISynth source filter), but this doesn't have to be related to what you observe.

[gwaitsi]

Hmmmm.....

a) Why has the default audio encoding been changed to AAC-LC for Nero Digital AVC?

b) The Sony PS3 AVC profile doesn't make any difference
- i can play Nero Digital AVC (Standard) old/new with HE-AAC if run on the PS3 locally. Same goes for the new PS3 AVC profile
- i can not however stream either of the profiles to the PS3 without stop and starts
- PS3 sees Nero Digital AAC-LC audio albums with chapter and icons through NeroMedia with no problems.
- PS3 sees Nero Digital AVC or PS3 AVC video with "*" which i understand means not fully recognised

Good points are: -
a) seems to encode (even with "Best" setting) slightly quicker
b) files seem to be smaller for the same file. Why?

[SeeMoreDigital]

Is anybody able to generate and upload a short test sample with AVC video and AC3 audio in .MP4?


Cheers

[GmorG McRoth]

Is anybody able to generate and upload a short test sample with AVC video and AC3 audio in .MP4?


Cheers

Will this be enough? http://www.mediafire.com/?9gtg9udcwdj
Latest haali and media player classic internal splitter do not see audio track.

[gwaitsi]

why?

using a sample video encoded with Nero Digital AVC quality set to 1.56Mbs produce almost half the size when the "encoding precision" setting is set to "best" as compared to "good".

I would have thought it would be the other way round?

[SeeMoreDigital]

Will this be enough? http://www.mediafire.com/?9gtg9udcwdj
Latest haali and media player classic internal splitter do not see audio track.Many thanks for the sample...

Out of interest.... Does Recode3 only allow you to generate encodes with AVC video and AC3 audio in .MP4, or can you generate encodes with ASP video and AC3 audio in .MP4?

By-the-way: All my "media info" stream detection tools report the AC3 stream as being "sac3"!

[GmorG McRoth]

Out of interest.... Does Recode3 only allow you to generate encodes with AVC video and AC3 audio in .MP4, or can you generate encodes with ASP video and AC3 audio in .MP4?
I can encode to "Standard" NeroDigital with AC3 track copying. Funny though I can't use AAC audio encoding, instead I have option to use MP3.
By-the-way: All my "media info" stream detection tools report the AC3 stream as being "sac3"!
This is probably why there is no audio in media player classic. ffdshow does not recognise that code (I guess).

[smok3]

what do i clicky clicky to get recode3? is this upgrade available to nero7 users as well?

[SeeMoreDigital]

I can encode to "Standard" NeroDigital with AC3 track copying. Yes please

Funny though I can't use AAC audio encoding, instead I have option to use MP3.How odd...

[GmorG McRoth]

Yes please

Here you go. http://www.mediafire.com/?cwsy9jjyvyi

what do i clicky clicky to get recode3? is this upgrade available to nero7 users as well?
You can download update from http://www.nero.com/eng/downloads-nero8-update.php or use auto update in "Nero ControlCenter". I don't think recode3 will be in nero7 but who knows.

[bond]

just a warning to everyone: ac3-in-mp4 is not mpeg-4 compliant and will never be played in any pure mpeg-4 player

[SeeMoreDigital]

Thanks again...

When the possibilty of adding AC3 audio to the .MP4 container was being discussed with JohnV (Nero AG Engineer), I was not expecting the combination of ASP with AC3 in .MP4 to be included.


Cheers

[Sharktooth]

Frankenstein lives again.
ac3 is mp4 is a monstruosity. i hope it will remain a Nero private thing only and i hope it dies soon enough to not let any SAP support that abomination.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Frankenstein lives again.
ac3 is mp4 is a monstruosity. i hope it will remain a Nero private thing only and i hope it dies soon enough to not let any SAP support that abomination.LOL...

Sorry to be the barer of bad news... but it's coming.

In some respects the Blu-ray and HD-DVD forums are partly to blame for this monstrosity by not including AAC audio in their specifications.

If they had, surround sound amplifier manufacturers might have included support for AAC audio decoding, as well as the new spec AC3 and DTS audio formats :eek:

[sjchmura]

Excuse the ignorances but....

I thought AVC+AC3 = AVCHD?
Second, at worst, can you just demux that and remux into MKV?
Is there a constant quality setting yet?
For Recoding DVD's that are TV series - does it automatically make the files etc or just try to make one large movie?

Finally, does recode LOOK FOR its own filters first or use direct show? For example, it is a pain in teh ass having Hallia installed adn decoding TS/TRP since it would "break" recode unless you disabled TS (Transport support) so that the Nero Demuxer had "priority". This is something JohnV thought would be fixed.

Does the demo of REocde 3 work ( I am registered 7.0). I am kinda reluctant to buy it site unscene.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Excuse the ignorances but....

I thought AVC+AC3 = AVCHD?Indeed... but it's not muxed into the .MP4 container.

[shon3i]

Did mp4 container support any of dolby digital coders such EAC3? EAC3 will be more usefull anyway, for BD, HDDVD specifications.

Look like mp4 is olny usefull for aac audio.

[Kurtnoise]

By-the-way: All my "media info" stream detection tools report the AC3 stream as being "sac3"!
you haven't tested MediaInfo really...:rolleyes:

you should have something like that for audio streams :
Audio #0
Codec : AC3
Codec/Info : AC3 in MP4 (made in Nero)
PlayTime : 45s 344ms
Bit rate : 448 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Sampling rate : 48 KHz
Resolution : 16 bits
StreamSize : 2.42 MiB
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2007-12-20 18:35:25
Tagged date : UTC 2007-12-20 18:36:12

[SeeMoreDigital]

you haven't tested MediaInfo really...:rolleyes:Thanks Kurt,

You prompted me to look for the newest release (v0.7.5.6). And yes, the AC3 stream in .MP4 is correctly identified.

By-the-way, I just tried MediaInfo with a 6Ch AC3 stream muxed into the .MP4 container using Haali's GDSmuxer, and it's still listed as being 2Ch... So I guess there must be differences in how the AC3 streams are muxed into .MP4


Cheers

[Drachir]

just a warning to everyone: ac3-in-mp4 is not mpeg-4 compliant and will never be played in any pure mpeg-4 player

Nero doesn't create files conformance to the MP4 File Format(ISO/IEC 14496-14), they never did (except files with only one audio/video track and without vobsub).

The files created by Nero are based at ISO Base Media File Format (ISO/IEC 14496-12 or ISO/IEC 15444-12).
I would call this Nero File Format, like there is the 3GPP File Format or the iTunes File Format by Apple. A list of Brands/File Formats which are based at ISO/IEC 14496-12 can be found here: http://www.mp4ra.org/filetype.html

In my opinion the use of ac3 in a ISO Base Media File based Format, isn't that bad. But Nero should decide which file format they want to use - Nero File Format??? and register this extension to ISO/IEC 14496-12 for better interchange with other application here http://www.mp4ra.org .

At the moment the files created by Nero are a wild mix of different file formats based at ISO/IEC 14496-12. Nero doesn't know what they want or is unable to create a clean solution.

[SeeMoreDigital]

just a warning to everyone: ac3-in-mp4 is not mpeg-4 compliant and will never be played in any pure mpeg-4 playerIs there such thing as a pure MPEG-4 (software or hardware) player?

Admittedly .MP4 file support in hardware based players is not fully compatible with the MPEG-4 standard. But then again you have to work with the decoders installed within the players and amplifiers. Meaning support for TTXT subtitles and 6Ch AAC audio is not (currently) possible to implement. When support for VOBsub subtitles and 6Ch AC3 audio is possible to implement!


Cheers

[Kurtnoise]

looking into it...

AVISynth import is still somewhat limited (we haven't yet been able to fully workaround problems triggered by the AVISynth source filter), but this doesn't have to be related to what you observe.
just let you know that using a fake AVI file as input (created by the makeAVIS tool from FFdshow) instead of the avs script, it works fine...

Here is the filters chain : File Source -> Nero MP4 Splitter -> FFdshow decoder -> Nero Digital Renderer.

[SeeMoreDigital]

An observation: -

If you use MP4Box to de-mux and save just the 6Ch AC3 stream in .MP4, MediaPlayer Classic's internal MP4 splitter can parse and allow playback of the "audio only" file just fine ;)

[Kurtnoise]

are you sure it is decoded as AC3 ? and not AAC ?

[SeeMoreDigital]

are you sure it is decoded as AC3 ? and not AAC ?Yes, absolutely!

I'm able to pass a fully working AC3 bit-stream via SPDIF directly to my surround sound amplifier.

Interestingly, Haali's MP4 muxer is also able to create working "audio only" AC3 in MP4 files, as well as "audio only" DTS in MP4 files :)

[omf]

Frankenstein lives again.
ac3 is mp4 is a monstruosity.

Is it technically worse than AAC in an MP4? (Not counting the fact that it's non-standard, of course.)

[omf]

I'd like to try seeing if the PS3 will play H264+AC3 in a MP4 container - what can I use to mux this? I tried GDSMuxer as mentioned above, but either it was incredibly slow, or it just froze.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Why not try the sample GmorG McRoth provided a link to?

[Has123]

Why not try the sample GmorG McRoth provided a link to?

I tried the sample. It did not work.

[SeeMoreDigital]

I tried the sample. It did not work.It would be highly unlikely for such muxes to play (yet).

[omf]

Why not try the sample GmorG McRoth provided a link to?

Because I didn't think of that! :D

I tried the sample. It did not work.

Thanks for the info.

[menno]

Yes, absolutely!

I'm able to pass a fully working AC3 bit-stream via SPDIF directly to my surround sound amplifier.

Interestingly, Haali's MP4 muxer is also able to create working "audio only" AC3 in MP4 files, as well as "audio only" DTS in MP4 files :)

Probably because with only one data track the mp4 file will just look like a elementary stream with some extra "rubbish" (mp4 file format stuff) attached at beginning and/or end.

[em500]

So can you choose standard Baseline, Main and High Profiles, or are they still brewing their own top-secret profiles?

[mediator]

So can you choose standard Baseline, Main and High Profiles, or are they still brewing their own top-secret profiles?

Look at the Encoding Tools configuration page!
It's up to you what AVC Profile your encoding will be.

[gwaitsi]

PS3 AVC or Nero Digital AVC profiles don't make any difference when playing on PS3 firmware 2.10.

Both play fine if played locally.

None play correctly if streamed with NeroMedia they are stop/start frequently. Also PS3 displays .mp4* meaning the file is not compatible.

Is the a NeroMedia or Nero Recode problem?

[mediator]

PS3 AVC or Nero Digital AVC profiles don't make any difference when playing on PS3 firmware 2.10.

The only difference it that Nero Digital AVC profile allows AC-3 tracks, while the PS3 profile doesn't.

None play correctly if streamed with NeroMedia they are stop/start frequently. Also PS3 displays .mp4* meaning the file is not compatible.

Is the a NeroMedia or Nero Recode problem?

Hmmm, when using AVC/AAC the result files are fully ISO-compliant. It seems that some other requirement for making streaming to PS3 work is not fulfilled then...

Will check about this, but it will take some time...

[em500]

Look at the Encoding Tools configuration page!
It's up to you what AVC Profile your encoding will be.

I don't really feel like downloading 180MB to try this out (and risk screwing up my existing Nero 7 install). So could someone just answer the question if the new Recode supports the standard Baseline, Main and High profiles?

[gwaitsi]

Ummm....oversight.

When trying to convert a video that has an invalid audio track (only) i.e. DTS

The video defaults has disabled and it is no longer possible to convert just the video.

p.s. i also discovered there is a slight difference in the PS3 AVC profile.

a) the file is 16bytes different in length compared to nero digital

b) it auto reduces frame rate from 29 to 23 on NTSC videos

[gwaitsi]

oh....and the streaming issue seems to be more of a problem with nero media home than recode, although i wouldn't rule out a bit of both.

tversity seems to work fine bar where bit rates are over 5mb/s but definately much better than nero.

[smok3]

question: i was trying to install old version of nero (7), and of course run old version of recode, no go..., is anybody actually successfully run nero recode 2 (the updated version)?

[gwaitsi]

good on 'ya nero.....another bug riddled version released.

a number of videos that encoded fine with recode 2 latest version, cause an application crash at the start of the 2pass in Recode 3.0.3

a number of videos encode successfully but have a random chunk 200mg of video in a separate file "NAME_title(cut)" even though there is no file size restriction (and besides, it is from middle of movie)

[mediator]

a number of videos that encoded fine with recode 2 latest version, cause an application crash at the start of the 2pass in Recode 3.0.3

can you isolate if this is related to any specific property of the source files, so it can be reproduced?

a number of videos encode successfully but have a random chunk 200mg of video in a separate file "NAME_title(cut)" even though there is no file size restriction (and besides, it is from middle of movie)

This can normally only happen if you specify that you want to split the output file, but as I understand you didn't do this!? As before, would be great if you could provide the details.

When building transcoding graphs for different types of source files there are always alot of things to consider in parallel. The graphbuilding for this release of Recode was entirely rewritten for internal reasons, and although we tested with lot of testclips and different filetypes, there is always some small probability to miss something.

Anyway, the problem will be fixed as soon as it is isolated.

Thanks in advance for your feedback and help!

[em500]

So can someone tell me if Recode 3 allows selecting standard Baseline, Main and High profiles?

[GmorG McRoth]

So can someone tell me if Recode 3 allows selecting standard Baseline, Main and High profiles?

Not directly.

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/6910/grabjc2.th.png (http://img444.imageshack.us/my.php?image=grabjc2.png)

those are the available settings.

[em500]

Not directly.

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/6910/grabjc2.th.png (http://img444.imageshack.us/my.php?image=grabjc2.png)

those are the available settings.
From those pics it appears that on the "Encoding tools" page you can deselect the High profile options (8x8 Transform) and it should fall back to Main Profile file, and if you deselect the Main Profile options (Bidirectional predition etc) it should fall back to Baseline Profile. Can anyone confirm this?

[mediator]

Yes, the used encoding tools (more specific: the used tool from the highest profile) determine the profile of the result file.

[Psythorn]

I'm too not able to use 2 pass encoding with recode 3 and AVC profile...
Another anoying thing is that the sony/ps3 avc profile seems to be buggy... everytime I try to select a second audio track nero crashes...

But I have been able to get around this using just standard nero avc profile... this did work...

What I read in other thread/forum is:
PS3 with Firmware 2.01 is able to play aac with High-Complexity and should be able to use 8x8 Transformation ... As far as I understand this did not work until latest firmware...

[mister_handy]

My own thoughts on Recode 3:
- seems like it's going to be nice, once the bugs are worked out.
- Better customization of profiles and being able to use multiple encoding options within a batch is a big plus!

- needs some UI streamlining or some way to set defaults:
with Recode 2 in 8.1.1.4, could set the audio type on all comparable clips together, with Recode 3 in 8.2.8.0, have to set each clip. When you're splitting a season's worth of DVDs with six episodes per DVD into a separate MP4 per episode, this gets very tedious.
similarly, if there's some way to select multiple clips and apply the same encoding settings (or at least set custom defaults) this would help a lot.

- one feature seem to crash: "motion-adaptive frame rate" for one (not sure if I need this but I was playing around and it crashed consistently when trying to encode)

- some titles open up as "disabled" rather than encodeable. Switching the profile to something else and then back to AVC seems to fix this, but very weird

- renaming files to be different from the title names (rather than "Title 1 (2)" etc) gets an error about "an object with this name already exists" (this happened on rare occasions in 8.1.1.4 also but it is consistent with 8.2.8.0)... seems to save the file names OK though

LASTLY, and most bothersome (enough so that I've uninstalled and gone back to 8.1.1.4 for now)... I'm not sure if this is the same 2-pass problem others have seen:
- using 2-pass, bit-rate seems to fall off over the course of the clip. I use ~910kbps, but by the end of files (whether full episodes or shorter things down to about 12 min, not sure about shorter) video is ~300-400kbps and very blocky. With 7.x and 8.1.1.4 bit rate was variable but even and never had these quality problems.

Any suggestions for workarounds? Or just stick with 8.1.1.4 until Recode 3 gets a few versions more mature?

Many thanks!

Oh - if it matters, am using Nero Digital AVC profile now; used to use Nero Digital - Cinema AVC on Recode 2. Also tried the "classic profiles" option in Recode 3 and same problems with the "Cinema AVC" profile as with the generic AVC. Source is 4:3 DVD, some from 24fps original (detected properly) some from NTSC TV. Mostly interlaced; not sure if I tried any progressive originals with it.