DD+ and TrueHD from HD-DVD to Blu-ray impossible?

[Creator1]

Hi to all,

I am trying to take some DD+ and TrueHD audio tracks from HD-DVDs and put them on Blu-Ray authored discs and scenarist refuses to accept the DD+ and truehd audio files. It says it cannot find some kind of code in the files that would make them DD+ or trueHD.

I will post the detailed message later.

Does anyone know if the DD+ or trueHD format for HD-DVD is really different from the blu-ray version?

I have no problem transferring DTS-HD or DTS-HD MA audio files from hd-dvd to blu-ray. I only have the problem with DD+ and trueHD tracks?

I know eac3to would permit me to transform those tracks into normal AC3, standard DTS or even LPCM but I am trying to find a solution to use the files directly.

If somebody knows why this error occurs, any info would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

[madshi]

No idea what's wrong. Try running the DD+ track through delaycut v1.3. Does delaycut complain about anything?

[Creator1]

No idea what's wrong. Try running the DD+ track through delaycut v1.3. Does delaycut complain about anything?

Thanks, Ill try that tonight and give you the result.

[drmpeg]

If somebody knows why this error occurs, any info would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
The Blu-ray specification doesn't allow single substream DD+ or TrueHD bitstreams.

In Blu-ray, DD+ is only used to carry additional channels (up to 10 more) beyond the first six (5.1). The stream consists of an independent regular DD substream for the first 6 channels and a dependent DD+ substream for additional channels.

For TrueHD, there's an MLP substream and a regular DD substream. They are both independent.

Both schemes provide backward compatibility since a regular DD bitstream can always be extracted and decoded by a regular DD decoder.

HD DVD DD+ would have to be re-encoded. For HD DVD TrueHD, it may be possible to add the DD substream and make it compatible. But don't ask me exactly how.

Ron

[Creator1]

The Blu-ray specification doesn't allow single substream DD+ or TrueHD bitstreams.

In Blu-ray, DD+ is only used to carry additional channels (up to 10 more) beyond the first six (5.1). The stream consists of an independent regular DD substream for the first 6 channels and a dependent DD+ substream for additional channels.

For TrueHD, there's an MLP substream and a regular DD substream. They are both independent.

Both schemes provide backward compatibility since a regular DD bitstream can always be extracted and decoded by a regular DD decoder.

HD DVD DD+ would have to be re-encoded. For HD DVD TrueHD, it may be possible to add the DD substream and make it compatible. But don't ask me exactly how.

Ron

Hi Ron,

Thanks a lot for this explanation. Makes sense. I forgot about the DD+ not having a "core" on HD-DVD. I didn't know that the blu-ray DD+ was like that though. So, basically, DD+ on blu-ray is not a good format to use. Sounds to me like it's mainly normal DD with some added DD+ on the additionnal channels.

For TrueHD, you might be right. I wonder how I can add that DD substream inside though.

Madshi, I opened the streams with delaycut v1.3 and they all open fine except the truehd track which opens as a stereo 2.0 stream. I would guess that this is normal and wrongly detected by delaycut?

Finally, here is the error message that scenarist gives me:

"Error confirming E-AC3 numblkscod as 11b (6blk/sync frame)"

This happens when I try to use the MUI Generator to create the asset. So, it is not scenarist that refuses to take it but the MUI generator, which is even worse.

Do you understand the error message madshi?

Thanks!

[superx]

best thing to do is convert the DD+ or truehd to DTS 1.5mbits for now

[madshi]

In Blu-ray, DD+ is only used to carry additional channels (up to 10 more) beyond the first six (5.1). The stream consists of an independent regular DD substream for the first 6 channels and a dependent DD+ substream for additional channels.
Are you sure about that? I always thought that DD+ on Blu-Ray did not have anything to do with regular DD. But of course it's hard to tell because AFAIK there's no Blu-Ray disk with a DD+ track out there, so we can't really check... :)

For TrueHD, there's an MLP substream and a regular DD substream. They are both independent.
Probably I'm splitting hairs, but it's not really a MLP substream but a TrueHD substream. The compression is the same, but TrueHD has different major sync headers compared to MLP.

[Creator1]

best thing to do is convert the DD+ or truehd to DTS 1.5mbits for now

Yes that is what I did so far and what I will continue to do. I am not an audiophile but keeping the same track that the one on HD-DVD would keep the same quality and be less long than recompres in DTS (which is long on my PC).

THe good side is that my audio system cannot play DD+ and trueHD anyway on blu-ray since the PS3 does not have discrete outs except ont he HDMI out and my amplifier has no HDMI. The best I can hear is DTS 1.5 without discrete outputs.

Thanks for the help everyone.