23.97 fps telecined source??

[mpiper]

I have a 640X480 23.97 video. Based on the artifacts, I thought it was interlaced, but I recently found out that some sources may be progressive, but the telecine process creates the "interlaced" look, even when the video is progressive.

I want to convert the 640X480 23.97 telecined source to be 720X480 29.97 interlaced.

I want to keep as much quality as possible, and for the final video to look smooth and not jerky when played on a standard TV.

How do I go about doing this?

Thanks!

[LoRd_MuldeR]

If your source is "telecined" material, then you can restore the original progressive frames with an IVTC filter :)
But I don't understand how/why you want to convert the restored progressive video to interlaced ???

The only purpose of Telecine is converting 24 fps progressive to 29.97 interlaced, as needed for TV broadcast.
If you apply an IVTC filter on 29.97 interlaced/telecined material, you get the original 24 fps progressive video back.
This won't work with "true" interlaced material, it only works with material that has benn interlaced via Telecine.

Now converting the 24 fps progressive back to 29.97 interlace would require to run it through Telecine once again!
So why do you first apply an IVTC filter, just to undo it afterwards ?!?!?
I think you could simply separate the fields, resize the video and then re-weave the fields to get the same effect...

[mpiper]

You misunderstood my dellima. The source is currently 23.97 fps. In this state, it has interlacing artifacts. I thought it was interlaced. But I learned that some video can be progressive, but telecined, making it appear interlaced.

Well, taking a video with existing visible lines and then interlacing to create 29.97 would potentially kill the quality and result in a very jumpy/jittery video.

What I want to do is re-create the frames with no interlacing/artifacting. Then, convert that to NTSC valid DVD video.

My plan right now is to convert from 23.97 640X480 to 47.94 640X240; resize to 720X480 at 47.94; then (Somehow) create either 720X480 23.97 progressive (drop frames) or 29.97 interlaced (??).

I have read that telecide can get rid of telecining, but I'm not too clear on the hows and whys.

Thoughts??

[LoRd_MuldeR]

AFAIK 23.97 fps actually is progressive, only encoded with a special "flag" that provokes the 3:2 pulldown (telecine) at playback time!

But even if you video was "hard" telecined and you IVTC it to restore the original 24 fps, what would be the benefit?
As soon as you convert it to NTSC video, you will need 29.97 fps (59,94 fields per second) again.
So before you put your restored 24 fps stream on DVD, you would have to run it through Telecine (3:2 pulldown) once more...


Again: Telecine is used to convert a video with full frames to interlaced (e.g. 24 fps progressive => 29.97 interlaced).
That is required to convert film material (from cinema productions) to the NTSC format, for TV broadcast or for Video DVD.
But in contrast to "true" interlaced video, you can restore the original progressive frames from interlaced video via IVTC.
Nevertheless telecined material compresses worse then progressive material.
So often it's "soft" telecined, encoded at 23.97 as progressive (marked with a flag) and it will be telecined to 29.97 at playback time.

[Guest]

@mpiper

You're obviously confused. Please post a link to a short *unprocessed* source sample. Then we can help you properly without trying to guess things from an incoherent description.

[setarip_old]

@mpiper

Hi!I have a 640X480 23.97 video. Based on the artifacts, I thought it was interlacedIt's hard to understand why you wouldn't know if the video is interlaced or not:

1) When you created the 640x480 video, what software and settings did you use?

2) Presuming that your ORIGINAL source material (that you used to create the 640x480 video) was a DVD, what is the Title and Region of your DVD?

[mpiper]

Neuron2, I will post a short clip as soon as I can this evening. Namely, the opening, where the fields are MOST visible. A short clip should be long enough to see the problem, without any "online distribution" legality questions.

Setarip_old, I did not create the material. The TV series was an 8 episode reality show I purchased on iTunes for my daughter. My plan was to burn a DVD from iTunes. Only AFTER I purchased and downloaded, did I learn iTunes does not natively allow burning of DVDs like they DO allow music CDs. I have had the videos sitting on my machine for about 6 months, and Tunebite finally got up to being able to allow me to configure the output to guarantee an almost perfect copy quality. But both the source and copy are 23.97fps. If this were available on DVD, I would purchase in a heartbeat and be done with it. But since it is not, and I doubt it ever will be, I'm trying to create a version my daughter can watch when she wants to.

[Guest]

Fine, just make it long enough to be useful from an analytical perspective. 20 seconds of video would be good. And remember...*unprocessed* source. What is the source format BTW? I can suggest a cutting tool if I know that. You can open it in GSpot and then post a grab of the GSpot window.

[mpiper]

Attached is the Gspot and a sample frame.

I did not get a chance to make a clean copy on Tunebite last night. I rushed, and got the settings wrong, so there is blocking and blurred fields. I'll do it again and post tonight.

Mike

[Guest]

I said *unprocessed*! How could you get blocking from an unprocessed cut of your source?

Don't post anything that is DRM protected. You have to remove the DRM, otherwise it will be unusable for me.

[mpiper]

I wasn't processing it.

iTunes Video has DRM, but nothing can remove it. The only solution I have found is Tunebite, which makes a legal copy, but it is done by recording the video and audio output as a new file. For a "perfect" copy, the processor, hard drive, encoder, etc. all have to be operating in perfect sync to get exact frames and encode without introducing new encoding errors or blocking.

Setting for WMV output at 3 MB/s, I get a great copy, but it's not easily cut to upload a short segment (asfBin and asfCut are best, but not good with newest codec). So I tried xvid, mp4, etc. But all those created blocking.

I guess I'm just going to do a "smart deinterlace" to blur/recreate and then output a 24fps DVD. It'll drive me crazy, but she probably won't even notice.

Oh Well.

[setarip_old]

I just want to make sure that you're aware that, for a conventional, compliant DVD, you'll also have to convert the 44.1KHz AAC audio to 48KHz either .MP2 or .AC3 format...