Upconverting DVD Player vs. Computer for watching converted DVDs on HDTV

[treeninja]

Does an upconverting DVD player do a better job at making my old DVDs look good on my HDTV than a computer outputting to the same HDTV (via DVI) the DVDs that have been converted to h264?

I have a computer with DVI output, and I was wondering if (when I converted my movies in high quality to an mkv h264 videos) the picture would be the same, better, or worse than what I would get with an upconverting DVD player. When watching the movies on teh upconverting player, I'd be using the actual DVD, not a converted file.

I am currently using handbrake to do mkv videos h264 with the slowest (best looking) deinterlacing, so I am guessing that since I am allowing the system to have so much time and processing power dedicated to the deinterlacing process, it will probably look even better than an upconverting DVD player that needs to do deinterlacing to 1080p on the fly.

I have already tried using some search engines to find an answer, but I've had no luck.

[eXistenZ_69]

Hi there,

you've got quite a few things wrong there :). I'll try to explain your mistakes.

1) By converting your dvd movies to h264 in mkv's you are encoding again which means loss of quality.

2) There shouldn't be any deinterlacing. Dvd movies are normally progressive source and therefore inverse telecine (IVTC) should be applied, not deinterlacing.

3) Since the source material is not equal (original dvd vs re-encoded) you cannot make any comparative statements about the upscaling quality.

4) Suppose you use same original dvd as source on the HTPC, you still cannot make a general statement about what has better upscaling quality. This is because the upscaling algorithm used in dvd-players varies from brand to brand and even between models and is generally not specified in the manual.

5) With a HTPC you can choose between many different upscaling algorithms ranging from fast (bi-linear) to slower but more quality (bi-cubic, spline,...). So the only thing one can say with certainty is "upscaling by a dvd-player will at most be as good as on the HTPC". That is assuming other factors are not considered like connection type, quality of processing chips, etc...

My advice is try both approaches and if you can't tell the difference or are content with the upscaling of your player, don't bother with the HTPC overhead...

Cheers,

eXistenZ_69

[treeninja]

Thank you for responding. I am a little confused at this point.

In handbrake, there is an option to "deinterlace" the DVD. I do this on every DVD I have put through handbrake because I can notice that it makes the edges look much better. I've experimented with it myself, and I see an improvement with "deinterlace" activate in handbrake.

http://handbrake.m0k.org/trac/wiki/DeinterlacingGuide

Anyway, I do my visual testing on a mac mini, and when I use apple's built-in "DVD Player", I notice that the interlacing problems are not corrected, and the video tends to have a very jagged look. This is why I assumed that standard def NTSC DVDs were all interlaced instead of progressive. Are you sure that there are not a lot of DVDs that are not progressive too?

Also, when you mention that a HTPC is capable of providing very good upscaling algorithms, which programs are you refering to? Would WMP11 on windows and apple's "DVD Player" on the mac be capable?

Does quicktime on the mac have a good upscaling algorithm? I will probably be using apple's front row w/quicktime because of the nice front row remote control ability).

As far as my tests have shown, I actually get a better video quality from my lossy x264 encodes (even down to 1100k) simply because I use the "deinterlace" option in handbrake to make the picture less jagged.

[eXistenZ_69]

In handbrake, there is an option to "deinterlace" the DVD. I do this on every DVD I have put through handbrake because I can notice that it makes the edges look much better. I've experimented with it myself, and I see an improvement with "deinterlace" activate in handbrake.

http://handbrake.m0k.org/trac/wiki/DeinterlacingGuide
I'm not familiar with Handbrake, but having looked at the wiki page the deinterlacing option should not be used in general for dvd movies! You should apply IVTC, not deinterlacing...

Anyway, I do my visual testing on a mac mini, and when I use apple's built-in "DVD Player", I notice that the interlacing problems are not corrected, and the video tends to have a very jagged look. This is why I assumed that standard def NTSC DVDs were all interlaced instead of progressive. Are you sure that there are not a lot of DVDs that are not progressive too?
Please have a look here: http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_7_4/dvd-benchmark-part-5-progressive-10-2000.html

It's a lengthy article but explains it better than I could :)

Also, when you mention that a HTPC is capable of providing very good upscaling algorithms, which programs are you refering to? Would WMP11 on windows and apple's "DVD Player" on the mac be capable?
I personaly use Media Player Classic (MPC) as player and ffdshow as codec. MPC offers 3 algorithms, ffdshow offers a whopping 14. Can't say anything about other players/codecs, sorry.

Does quicktime on the mac have a good upscaling algorithm? I will probably be using apple's front row w/quicktime because of the nice front row remote control ability).
Sorry, can't help you there. Don't have a mac...

As far as my tests have shown, I actually get a better video quality from my lossy x264 encodes (even down to 1100k) simply because I use the "deinterlace" option in handbrake to make the picture less jagged.
Better than what? Than dvd playback on HTPC or playback on upscaling dvd-player?


I made a correction to my previous post. I mixed up "3:2 pulldown" and IVTC. Sorry about that.


Cheers,

eXistenZ_69

[eXistenZ_69]

Stumbled upon this as well:

http://handbrake.m0k.org/trac/wiki/FramerateGuide

So setting Handbrake to "Same as source" and trusting the autodetection is recommended.