Have any of you seen this TV?

[dbzgundam]

Alright, well I'll be honest, I have no idea what model this was (or which Blu-ray player was hooked up, though considering Sony was behind the setup, I'd expect the player to be theirs, as the TV was), but while buying an HDTV this weekend, I noticed a very interesting anomaly in Circuit City.

While the movie playing was Fantastic Four (Blu-Ray, and presumably in 24p), one of the devices, which I BELIEVE is the TV, seemed to mocomp the majority of the video into what appeared to be 60p. I'm not quite sure if this is the TV attempting to bob a field-assumed source, if the BD player output a 1080i signal and is not performing IVTC for display (leading to the TV trying to bob it), or if the TV offers some weird "feature" to improve the fluidity of video. Oddly enough (but not surprisingly, for those of us who have played around with software based solutions), the mocomp would change back down to the original 24fps on very complex scenes, such as heavy CG usage, explosions, etc.

I've never heard of such a technique being used, and surprisingly it did not look bad in terms of artifacting (I couldn't easily spot anything), but the constantly changing framerates (not to mention having a 60p look to begin with...) were just ugly anyway. Figured I'd let you guys know seeing how interesting this display was; has anyone else seen this?... Or has it?

[MuttLover]

maybe one of the new 120hz machines - some offer the elimination of 3-2 pulldown to remove judder -- see the main TV review page at www.cnet.com

[jeffy]

maybe one of the new 120hz machines - some offer the elimination of 3-2 pulldown to remove judder -- see the main TV review page at www.cnet.com
This is also worth reading:
Six things you need to know about 120Hz LCD TVs (By David Carnoy, Executive editor, CNET Reviews, October 25, 2007)
http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-6449_7-6792632-1.html?tag=txt

Extract:
1. 120Hz on its own doesn't appear to significantly reduce motion blur
2. Motion blur is a fuzzy concept
3. Anti-judder can have a major impact on picture quality
4. Eliminating judder is not for everyone
5. If you're a fan of anti-judder, it's hard to live without
6. Smoothing will only get smoother

[Wolfman]

Bad post.. What TV..FFS...

[SeeMoreDigital]

What's needed are TV's/monitors with 600Hz processing - for smooth playback of 24, 25 and 30 fps sources....

Like that will ever happen though!

[scharfis_brain]

@SMD: why this?
Most TVs are fully capable switching between 120 Hz and 100Hz depending on the input signal.

So there is no need for higher internal frequencies.

[2Bdecided]

It's probably a Philips TV with DNM. They're quite common in Europe. Film buffs hate them because it makes film look like video.

http://www.research.philips.com/newscenter/archive/2003/trimensiondnm.html

A few other companies have something similar. The Philips version tends to stay locked to motion very well - if what you saw was giving up on complex motion, it may have been from another manufacturer.

Cheers,
David.

[SeeMoreDigital]

What's needed are TV's/monitors with 600Hz processing - for smooth playback of 24, 25 and 30 fps sources....

Like that will ever happen though!And here they are: -

http://www.panasonic.co.uk/html/en_GB/Technology/Overview/Products+%7C+VIERA+TV+%7C+NEOPDP+%7C+PLASMA+TVs+%7C+Panasonic/2241521/index.html

[Chiamos]

And here they are: -

http://www.panasonic.co.uk/html/en_GB/Technology/Overview/Products+%7C+VIERA+TV+%7C+NEOPDP+%7C+PLASMA+TVs+%7C+Panasonic/2241521/index.html

Thanks for the Info. They certainly happened, and in very short time, so now to get one even more quickly into my personal domain.:)

[foxyshadis]

Sounds more like a fancy way of saying 'it's clocked to the input signal', but 600Hz is a big number that impresses people, and it isn't comparable to DNM at all given the way Plasma refreshes work (they have to refresh more anyway), it's exactly the same viewing experience as an LCD that can switch refresh rates. I would rather have video cards and connection standard that could change sample rate in midstream!

I'll give them one thing, those do look like amazing TVs to base your media center around. Low power, high contrast, fast response, smooth action, that's a good way to continue the plasma vs lcd wars.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Mathematically, 600 is the lowest number divisible by 24, 25, 30, 50 and 60. So having a panel that can refresh at 600Hz makes perfect "electronic" sense.

I made a visit to my local Richer Sounds (with some 1920x1080 samples) to check the technology out... and it does appear to work well ;)

[tetsuo55]

If i translate the sales blurb on the site this is what is says:

"The internal resampler takes any input and resamples that to 600hz, it then displays 1 out of 10 frames at 60hz.

This would also explain why reviewers are saying that the 200hz versions the competition is using looks more fluid.

[burfadel]

100hz (pal) and 120hz (NTSC) alone isn't what makes motion better, its the processing in the tv which makes use of the 100/120hz! On a CRT screen, 100/120hz made a big difference in reducing flicker. On an LCD screen, you don't have the flicker problems associated with a CRT screen. A 100/120hz LCD tv without motion compensation is pointless, the extra refreshes are just identical to the last, providing no real benefit for LCD. With motion compensation I think it looks much better, and in fact on big LCD's is almost a requirement! The picture jerkyness is never nice without it! The quality of the compensation depends on the processing used by the TV, some are better than others. Sony has a 200hz tv which I'm sure would look pretty good! The other thing is whether it displays the image as 1080i, or processes it in to 1080p. A 32 inch CRT widescreen tv, 100hz progressive scan honestly doesn't look too bad, in fact it looks so much better than cheaper LCD's in my opinion - even if the HDTV ready (those that aren't explicity 1920x1080), not to mention better colour definition.

The tv's processing probably wasn't suitable for the material if it kept changing the processing method... sounds like it was a cheaper motion compensation, as fast moving scenes would require a more powerful (aka expensive) motion compensation system.

Best thing if buying a HDTV is watch them in the shop for a good long time. There would be nothing worse than buying a tv and finding in certain circumstances you have a slighty jerky/shuddery picture!

[tetsuo55]

But that's exactly what this tv claims to do.

Interpolate any incoming signal to 600hz.
Then it can choose the best scene from each 10 to display at any of the 60hz slots, or it can choose from 5 at 120hz

This is different to the sony which interpolates any signal to 200hz and then displays all 200 frames

[MfA]

Not really, the talk about subfields is a big hint. Subfields is the name in plasma display technology for the individual binary images which are used with temporal halftoning to display the final frame. The halftoning introduces some artifacts though, I assume they use more potential subfields to suppress those ... 600 subfields per second is not a whole lot though, that's only 120 more than the bare minimum to display 8 bit per component frames at 60 Hz.

PS. I never realized most plasma displays actually use spatio-temporal halftoning (ie. effectively they dither the frames). In papers I see PSNR values of around 30 dB on Peppers, eek ...

[tetsuo55]

in that case a LOL is in order :)

[burfadel]

This is a nice TV: :D
http://www.samsung.com/au/consumer/detail/detail.do?group=television&type=television&subtype=ledtv&model_cd=UA55B7100WFXXY

[Lyris]

But that's exactly what this tv claims to do.

Interpolate any incoming signal to 600hz.Fortunately, you can turn it off. I've reviewed some of the newer Panasonic PDPs (over at AVforums.com's review section) and they are fantastic displays for the most part.

[SeeMoreDigital]

This is a nice TV: :D
http://www.samsung.com/au/consumer/detail/detail.do?group=television&type=television&subtype=ledtv&model_cd=UA55B7100WFXXYThese are very useful features: -

http://i39.tinypic.com/98ttuo.png

[burfadel]

Even better:
http://www.samsung.com/us/consumer/detail/detail.do?group=televisions&type=televisions&subtype=ledtv&model_cd=UN55B8000XFXZA

I remember hearing they released the series 8 in LED backlight, they just haven't updated every website!

Auto Motion Plus 240Hz
There's a big difference between seeing the game and seeing every split second of it. That's where Auto Motion Plus 240Hz technology comes in. All the action in every frame is analyzed and then adjusted so nothing goes by in a blur. From quarterbacks to cyber warriors, the action is always smooth, sharp and fluid.

For PAL that would probaly be 200Hz.