Shaky x264 playback

[duckyy]

Hey all,

I got recently into HD, and I've set up my MPC to play x264 files properly.

Though, I'm not satisfied with their playback. I'm using Haali splitter and renderer and ffdshow/CoreAVC (no matter, the playback is still shaky using one of those). I'm also using ReClock.

The video is decoded in 100% YUY2 and sent to HR. My AGP 2600Pro is connected to Panasonic 42PX71 (or LCD monitor) via VGA. I'm not sure this might be the problem, but I'm using VGA because native resolution of my plasma is 1024*768.

Anyway, I found h264 playback far less convenient for my eyes than MPEG-2 interlaced. When playing progessive, the travellings and moves in the first plan are not well defined. Like I'm missing frames or the media isn't fast enough to meet a smooth playback. I really have problems trying to explain it.

I've been working with MPEG-2 encoding before and I would say the problem looks close to a field order problem.

I don't think the problem is a lack of CPU (I'm using 30/40% of my P4HT 3.06Ghz), but an issue while playing progressive material (I had the same issue playing SD xvid files).

I wasn't sure where to post this. I've been looking for an answer on various other message boards and either my poor english makes it difficult to explain my problem or people just don't have this problem ; either way my playback is not satisfying.

I hope someone can put a word to this.
Thanks for reading :o

[nm]

Anyway, I found h264 playback far less convenient for my eyes than MPEG-2 interlaced. When playing progessive, the travellings and moves in the first plan are not well defined. Like I'm missing frames or the media isn't fast enough to meet a smooth playback. I really have problems trying to explain it.
Interlaced video usually has temporal definition of 50 or 59.940 Hz. Do your progressive encodes have that framerate, or are you using half of it (25 or 29.970 fps)? If you halve the rate, motion fluidity will suffer. What deinterlacer do you use?

If the progressive videos are originally 24 fps film material, there isn't much you can do to improve the motions with currently available filters.

What refresh rate are you using with the plasma and what framerate do your videos have?

[duckyy]

It's 720p material at 24fps.
I set my graphic card at 75Hz (both monitor and plasma) and ReClock is accelerating the film from 24fps to 25fps.
Since I'm connected via VGA, compatible refresh rates are 60, 70, 75 or 85Hz

Ok, then there's nothing I can do to improve smoothness?
If I connect DVI to HDMI and get 50Hz, is there a chance to improve this matter?

[nm]

It's 720p material at 24fps.
I set my graphic card at 75Hz (both monitor and plasma) and ReClock is accelerating the film from 24fps to 25fps.
Since I'm connected via VGA, compatible refresh rates are 60, 70, 75 or 85Hz
Ok, that is probably fine. Do you see the same problem when playing back progressive DVDs (PAL discs or inverse-telecined NTSC) or similar non-interlaced MPEG-2 material?

Ok, then there's nothing I can do to improve smoothness?
If I connect DVI to HDMI and get 50Hz, is there a chance to improve this matter?It could be slightly better. I have a 21" CRT and using 85 Hz instead of 75 Hz actually improves the fluidity of both 24 fps film and 25/50 fps PAL sources. 50 or 100 Hz would of course be optimal for these framerates.

[duckyy]

Sorry for the late reply. Yes, the shakeness is the same with interlaced and progessive MPEG-2. Though, it seems more bearable ; maybe because I watch live music in MPEG-2 and there isn't much travelling work on those videos...

I need a DVI-HDMI adapter to check the 50Hz out.

[lexor]

are you sure you aren't seeing screen tearing like in this screen (http://images.gamersyde.com/gallery/public/6887/1264_0007.jpg) (look at the left side of the window, the vertical left edge of the window is unaligned top to bottom).

[duckyy]

No, it's not tearing.
I've screened my plasma, and if you will, the video is here (http://dl.free.fr/bcAb06Jm3/DSCF0357.avi)

you can see before leonardo meets the guy: leonardo is fine, but the "windows travelling" looks aweful, don't you think ?

[lexor]

hmm, sorry I don't see shaking... maybe I see it all the time and got used to it, like I got used to rainbowing on DLP and can no longer see it.

[DarkZell666]

@duckyy : I see what you mean, the travels aren't smooth and stutter quite a bit (but I'm also used to it so I needed to take a closer look to notice). In stuttering I mean the camera travel speed "seems" to vary quickly in an almost periodic way. Is that what you're seeing ?

I would have understood if the video was 24fps, but 25fps fits in perfectly : 25*3 = 75. Does it actually get worse if you stop using ReClock ? If it doesn't change anything then it might simply not be working (dunno I've never used it, and it seems too dumb for you not to notice it anyway, just checking :p).

@nm : using 85hz improves fluidity of 25 and 50fps contents over 75hz ? Doesn't stutter appear at the same time ? I fail to understand how it's possible since you're only sending 25 new pictures every second, so you can't display more than are already being sent ... you can only change "when" each frame is displayed relative to the neighbouring frames (since the screen timing has changed) :confused: And at 75hz the timing is simply perfect, whereas at 85hz it isn't :confused:. Maybe your CRT flickers too much at 75hz and tricks your eyes into believing motion isn't fluid ? *curious :p*

Actually duckyy, did you try 85hz ? Is it worse than 75hz or not ? And yes, I'm convinced VGA isn't a good idea to start with, but since your plasma has a 1024*768 resolution you're going to have to choose between spatial resolution and temporal accuracy I think ... :]

(Just my 0.02, this is just from the top of my empty head and I've never has any useful experience with all this).

[nm]

@duckyy : I see what you mean, the travels aren't smooth and stutter quite a bit (but I'm also used to it so I needed to take a closer look to notice). In stuttering I mean the camera travel speed "seems" to vary quickly in an almost periodic way. Is that what you're seeing ?I think that's because he used an NTSC camera to capture 25 fps video. It is very difficult to say anything based on this clip.

@nm : using 85hz improves fluidity of 25 and 50fps contents over 75hz ? Doesn't stutter appear at the same time ? I fail to understand how it's possible since you're only sending 25 new pictures every second, so you can't display more than are already being sent ... you can only change "when" each frame is displayed relative to the neighbouring frames (since the screen timing has changed) :confused: And at 75hz the timing is simply perfect, whereas at 85hz it isn't :confused:. Maybe your CRT flickers too much at 75hz and tricks your eyes into believing motion isn't fluid ? *curious :p*
Ah, sorry. I actually meant that 24 fps video was better at 85 Hz without ReClock (at 75 Hz there is a larger delay every half seconds and that is more annoying than continuous micro-stutter). I can't see a difference for 25/50 fps video at those two frequencies, so 85 Hz works slightly better overall.

As to duckyy's question, I don't think that 50 Hz is better than 75 Hz for 25 fps videos, but it is for 50 fps (bob-deinterlaced) stuff.

Here are some test clips that make refresh rate comparisons much easier: http://spng.se/frame-rate-test/

[duckyy]

@duckyy : I see what you mean, the travels aren't smooth and stutter quite a bit (but I'm also used to it so I needed to take a closer look to notice). In stuttering I mean the camera travel speed "seems" to vary quickly in an almost periodic way. Is that what you're seeing ?
Yes, that's my issue. I know the video sucks but that's the best I could come up with (and the problem is noticeable anyway :D).

So there's nothing much I can do ?

I just bought a DVI>HDMI adapter. Will try.