AVC encoding for Flash 9...?

[sillKotscha]

nice...

@all:

the advantage is that you have both plugins for your browsers (firefox et al = Flash Player 9 Plugin / IE = Flash Player 9 ActiveX) at once and don't have to separately open these browser for installation.

thank you for that tip

/ sill

[LoRd_MuldeR]

FlashPlayer v9.0.115.0 works like a charm with x264+FAAC encoded MP4 file from Avidemux :)

[smok3]

some interesting reading is here http://www.kaourantin.net/ (devs blog)

[smok3]

looking for good x264 command line for 576*320/25p at 482 kbps? (i prefer blockines before bluring...)

tested so far:
CE-HighProfile (filter 0,0)
CE-HighProfile (filter -2,-1)
HQ-Insane (filter -2,-1) <- seems to be the winner in the x264 category
HQ-Insane (filter -6,-6)
HQ-Insane (filter -2,-1), --ratetol 0.4 (i would like more bits for static scenes) - obviously ratetol does something else than i thought...
HQ-Insane (filter -2,-1), --vbv-maxrate 550

The idea is to beat vp6 at the same bitrate.

edit: test finished; for this specific material and my specific eyes for this specific bitrate - vp6 wins.

[sillKotscha]

The idea is to beat vp6 at the same bitrate.

if you ask me it already does - with no doubt...

I made a quick and dirty comparison of Flash 6/8/9 (avc)... I'm unable to host it for myself because of too small webspace but you can download it (http://s3.massmirror.com/f835f8cf256d8fa8e64c8bd552b69c3e.html), open the index.html and see for yourself...

I think you can clearly see the difference - and I just used MeGui's HQ-Insane with no alteration...

[smok3]

i need insane to beat vp6? :)

p.s. this specific material is home mpeg2 camcorder, which is probably annoying for any smart codec...

[sillKotscha]

i need insane to beat vp6? :)

probably not ... if you know every snick & snack of a good h.264 encoder (I used x264 here in combination with MeGui) you will surely not need Insane profil of MeGui...

but I'm not very experienced in configuring x264 and that's why I just trust these predefined profiles... that said, I don't care about encoding time and go straight with the insane one...

[smok3]

wasn't that bad time-wise, 6 fps is good enough (some opteron here) - + 'smooting = false' in jw player improves the picture for my eyes.

[sillKotscha]

+ 'smooting = false' in yw player improves the picture for my eyes.

I guess this is true for AVC content as Adobe's / Mainconcept decoder already does a very good job but for flash 6 & 8 I leave smoothing=true ... especially flash 6 needs post-processing and JW Player copes very well with deblocking when 'smoothing=true' ...

that is why I left smoothing to default (which is on by default)

P.S.: may I see an example of you please...

[smok3]

may I see an example
will update my test page as soon as i get some good testing material.

will update my test post;
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1072817#post1072817

[smok3]

that is why I left smoothing to default (which is on by default)
any clues what exactly smoothing really means in adobe flash terms? and how exactly definition changes from full screen to embeded?

[sillKotscha]

IMHO smoothing is a true player component and got nothing to do with adobe's decoder implementation... but that's not for sure.

the readme (http://www.jeroenwijering.com/extras/readme.html) says about smoothing (but I think you already know that ;) )

smoothing (true,false): If set to "false", video will not smooth, resulting in a more pixelated, but better performing display. Use this for large screen / slow computer combinations.

and your second sentence I don't understand, sorry

[foxyshadis]

Smoothing does two things: It turns on bilinear resizing, and flv deblocking (level 4). Better resize is good, obvs. You don't want deblocking ever with h.264, it'll reduce speed and quality, unless you encoded with inloop off.

However, there is absolutely no information on the effect of the deblocking parameter on AVC video yet. Maybe it'll ignore it, maybe not. Here's the doc on what it does for Spark & VP6 (http://livedocs.adobe.com/flash/9.0/ActionScriptLangRefV3/flash/media/Video.html#deblocking).

[smok3]

right, so i guess at this point in time this is something adobe (and player devs?) should fix, basically all 'we' need for avc is bilinear resizer part.

[sillKotscha]

version 3.13 of JW FLV PLAYER released:

Added ASX playlist support, advertisement integration, duration playlist tag, recommendations endscreen* 1), config XML, Lighttpd MP4 streaming support* 2) and stop button. Increased timing resolution for more accurate subtitling. [download (http://www.jeroenwijering.com/?item=JW_FLV_Player)]

nice :)

* 1)

URL to an XML with movies you want to recommend. The thumbs will show up when the current movie stops playing, just like YouTube.

* 2) STREAMING EXAMPLES (http://www.jeroenwijering.com/extras/streaming.html)

[smok3]

possible bugs in jw player:
a. i think there is a playback 'bug' in jw player, first N seconds will playback jumpery (if resolution is big enough, 576*320 seems to be big enough), did you notice that as well? (no matter what settings are used as it seems)

b. in version 3.13 preloader animation will show up from time to time when the movie is allready playing (progressive download mp4).

[sillKotscha]

possible bugs in jw player:
a. i think there is a playback 'bug' in jw player, first N seconds will playback jumpery (if resolution is big enough, 576*320 seems to be big enough), did you notice that as well? (no matter what settings are used as it seems).

no, I haven't noticed it as I don't had to upgrade... I have such a simple and limited webspace (only 10MB and plain html allowed - coming as a "bonus" of my phone/dsl provider) that flv streaming or mp4 streaming is (until now) no testing ground for me... hence, this version is very, very nice for ur purpose but not for me -> I didn't test the new player...

but u could be right - as I know JW is not so keen about big resolutions I don't like big screen sizes. There's nothing i can see at 640x480 that i cannot see at 320x240. Remember that the screen area of the first one is 4 times the area of the second one, and that the file will also become about 4 times as large. You will rule out a lot of people with you big-screen fetish.... maybe resolutions above 320x240 weren't tested by him... do you have a test-page / setup for me - I can see if it is the same for me...

b. in version 3.13 preloader animation will show up from time to time when the movie is allready playing (progressive download mp4).

preloader animation?? do you mean this "loading sign" before the video is fully downloaded to start playing??

[smok3]

test page is in your pm.
b. yes, others have found that as well;
http://www.jeroenwijering.com/?thread=8115

I don't like big screen sizes. There's nothing i can see at 640x480 that i cannot see at 320x240. Remember that the screen area of the first one is 4 times the area of the second one, and that the file will also become about 4 times as large. You will rule out a lot of people with you big-screen fetish
huh, honestly i wouldnt expect something that silly from a video player developer...

[sillKotscha]

test page is in your pm.
b. yes, others have found that as well;
http://www.jeroenwijering.com/?thread=8115

ok, but as you can read as well he's already trying to fix it...


huh, honestly i wouldnt expect something that silly from a video player developer...

:D

[smok3]

I have such a simple and limited webspace (only 10MB and plain html allowed - coming as a "bonus" of my phone/dsl provider) that flv streaming or mp4 streaming is (until now) no testing ground for me...
i can easily 'give' you few gigs, however the only streaming possible is via php, so that is only flv/vp6.

edit: i have 'heavily' updated my php pulldown btw, check it here;
http://blog.somestuff.org/index.php?entry=entry070611-064852

[easy2Bcheesy]

Thread resurrection time!

Can any one tell me why the "Update Your Flash" part of my page (http://216.75.63.164/flash/1mbps) doesn't work?

Some visitors are just getting a black screen with the "loading" symbol and nothing is happening. It's exactly the same fault I had myself until I manually de-installed Flash and re-installed the new one.

Is there any way to get an "Update your Flash" screen that is actually user-friendly? The bottom line is that if this is not possible, should I do a proper website, I'm just going to lose visitors.


Is the CoreAVC plug-in working on all browsers yet? I looked at it a while back and the quality level annihilated Flash.

[smok3]

easy2Bcheesy, cos they have older version of flash that doesn't support mp4?

(with my script iam requesting version 9 if file extension is *.mp4, but i didn't really test that very well...,

new version of jerowin player has some sort of fallback included, so you can alternatively serve flv version as well (or display an image with text - get flash 9).

check;
http://www.jeroenwijering.com/?page=wizard&example=17

There are other means to test the flash version - to be found somewhere on adobe's page i think.)

coreavc plug-in is pretty nice, but visitors will not bother with that.

[sillKotscha]

Thread resurrection time!

Can any one tell me why the "Update Your Flash" part of my page (http://216.75.63.164/flash/1mbps) doesn't work?

look at your flash version within your html code and you will see that you still point out to version:

var s = new SWFObject('flvplayer.swf','playlist','640','360','9,0,45,0');

but when you check out adobes 'about page (http://www.adobe.com/products/flash/about/)' page you will see that the latest official version is 9,0,115,0 - 9,0,45,0 was beta stage

so, you have two possibilities...

either you keep your html pages always up2date or you can be a lazy player and just write a minimum flash version required for watching your content, that would be 9,0,0,0.

but concerning flash avc content that isn't an option as version 9,0,0,0 didn't support avc. That was nice for the first fullscreen option introduced by adobe... every player since 9,0,0,0 onwards supported fullscreen and it was sufficient to write 9,0,0,0 in your html code but now with flash avc you have to keep up with technology.

so, keep your html pages always up2date with the latest official adobe player version required :)

[sillKotscha]

(or display an image with text - get flash 9).

I wrote the html code for this very tiny test page and what I did was a different, imho better approach...

an automatic check for the version with automatic update offer within your page - which he must have removed :)

@easy2Bcheesy

I told you to include: Express Install with SWFObject (http://blog.deconcept.com/swfobject/#expressinstall)

and as far as I can remember I did include those lines in your html code ;)

[easy2Bcheesy]

Thanks for the fast update. I don't recall changing your initial HTML that much at all - all I did was change the list of content to point to the right files.

Sorry to be a pain, but could you check the site and let me know what I should change?

[sillKotscha]

let me know what I should change?

<script type="text/javascript" src="scripts/swfobject.js"></script>

just change from:

var s = new SWFObject('flvplayer.swf','playlist','640','360','9,0,45,0');
s.addParam("allowfullscreen","true");

to

var s = new SWFObject('flvplayer.swf','playlist','640','360','9,0,115,0');
s.useExpressInstall('scripts/expressinstall.swf');
s.addParam("allowfullscreen","true");

that should fix it...

you will find 'expressinstall.swf' in the zip file from here (http://blog.deconcept.com/swfobject/#expressinstall) and u should place it in ur subfolder called 'scripts' ...

[easy2Bcheesy]

OK, done that, thanks for your help. Now to see if works OK with my guinea pigs!

[easy2Bcheesy]

Nope, still doing exactly the same thing with my guinea pigs - and even a new one I've roped in who's never looked at the page before (so not a caching issue).

Loading graphic on-screen with no evidence of the data being loaded at all. It just hangs.

[sillKotscha]

I only have ur linked page (http://216.75.63.164/flash/1mbps/) as an example...

and although you didn't change anything there for reproduction your problem it works for me ;)

as you had this behavior before described on page one of this thread I'm very sure it is an adobe player plugin issue, read false installation... I recall fixing this issue by completely removing any adobe parts and reinstalling or something similar...

but as it works for me it is no html or javascript issue

[smok3]

ok, so my version 'code' is completely wrong, ignore my previous post please.

easy2Bcheesy; is the issue IE only or it will happen with all browsers?

[easy2Bcheesy]

Well on page one of the thread it was happening for me with both IE and Opera. My PC guinea pigs are using IE and my new Mac guinea pig is using Firefox.

I'm sure that completely uninstalling Flash and reinstalling the new one will work as that's what I did when I started this thread, but the average guy is just going to skip the site instead.

[sillKotscha]

but the average guy is just going to skip the site instead.

yes, but blame adobe for that... there are many threads in their forum describing your problem...

all you can do as a content provider is to offer a technology as it is meant to be, read: point to the right flash version recommended by adobe, offer a possibility to upgrade the flash automatically if it is needed to watch your content, etc.

When all this is done by you and you are 100% sure that you didn't make any mistake (are the subfolders really on your server, are really all files on your server, are you really pointing to right path to your files etc.) than it is not your fault but still an adobe issue...

[easy2Bcheesy]

Well you can see the HTML for yourself and the scripts are here... (http://216.75.63.164/flash/1mbps/scripts) Not sure what else there is I can do.

[sillKotscha]

unfair...

now you have changed it, 5min before you didn't ;)

I have uploaded a "test package (http://s1.massmirror.com/b8caa2f79e9aa9fdd2ed90e580e035be.html)"... click on the html in the folder and it should work out of the box - no need to upload any file to a server first. With that you can play around, change entries, see if it is still working, etc. - send this zip package to someone who couldn't watch any video on your website and when this person still can't watch anything from my example than you can do nothing at all as it is a problem on the client site...

sad but true...

but when the person can watch my videos out of the package than you can be sure you made a mistake somewhere on your website...

[easy2Bcheesy]

My guinea pig confirms that your offline site doesn't work either. Someone suggested that the update SWF object may have to match the newer version of Flash?

[sillKotscha]

My guinea pig confirms that your offline site doesn't work either.

what the hack is a guinea pig??? someone like him??

http://img33.picoodle.com/img/img33/4/2/19/f_IMG1096m_08e3914.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/4/2/19/f_IMG1096m_08e3914.jpg&srv=img33)

whatever... when my offline site won't work for him it is something on the clients end...

easy to test if swfobject works - just uninstall flash completely, install some older version of flash, say version 8 or below, open my offline site again and than it should automatically upgrade to 9,0,115,0 ...

if that's the case the whole thing got nothing to do with my test page or swfobject or something else... than you can be sure to blame adobe for faulty plugin installation.

'nuff said ;)

and btw, swfobject just performs a check of a version number. if this number doesn't fit the number you defined than it will upgrade - no matter if flash is old, new, brand new or whatever...

[easy2Bcheesy]

OK the solution is this:

var s = new SWFObject('flvplayer.swf','playlist','640','360','9.0.115.0');

It now works - for some reason the SWFObject requires points and not commas!

[sillKotscha]

SWFObject requires points and not commas!

http://www.computerbase.de/forum/images/smilies/Anstossen.gif

[smok3]

express install seems to work really fine with firefox, IE is a different story thought (i got auto-reboot on one machine, more tests needed...)

p.s.
guinea pigs (or better white-mice?) are welcome to try this with INTERNET EXPLORER:
http://somestuff.org/flashAVC/flvplayer.php?moviename=movies/slon61_14_kdosem_rigTest3_768_320.mp4
and report back, thank you (expect nasty behaviour, so save all your work before clicking 'update')

p.s.2. another auto-reboot on 2nd machine, firefox didn't work either (so estimated success is probably lower than 10% with this method... <- from a web user perspective)

[ricardo.santos]

the videos on the link you posted play fine, no hicups while playing them either normal or fullscreen mode.

What program/settings did you use to encode those samples? ive been trying automkv and megui and cant get to play the videos without stuttering in fullscreen mode.


I have uploaded a "test package (http://s1.massmirror.com/b8caa2f79e9aa9fdd2ed90e580e035be.html)"...

the avc video stutter when in fullscreen mode

[Atak_Snajpera]

Quote:
Originally Posted by sillKotscha View Post
I have uploaded a "test package"...
the avc video stutter when in fullscreen mode

I've downloaded and plays fine in fullscreen :)

[smok3]

the videos on the link you posted play fine, no hicups while playing them either normal or fullscreen mode.

slon61_14_kdosem_rigTest3_768_320.mp4 = qt compatible profile
HD_noCabac_stiriOpcijeRenderiranja_640_360.mp4 = very simple baseline profile, no cabac, ect
others are encoded by 3rd party, so i don't know, however CG and animation are not hard to encode, so this videos are not really representative in any way i guess. Two things i noticed however is that
a. very small videos tend to stutter (small as small in resolution) in full-screen modes.
b. On 1920x1200 screen everything stutters in fullscreen mode when smoothing is enabled.

p.s. for encoding i use custom batch script, but that should not make any difference - procedure is similar to megui i would guess. You can grab the script here:
http://blog.somestuff.org/static.php?page=x264_ng

[ricardo.santos]

Thanks smok3

will try Megui and the QT profile first as im not that good with scripts and command lines :)

the thing is audio will not encode in Megui using Nero aac encoder, will ask in the megui thread

Thanks once again

By the way the elephant dream clip playsperfectly here, im surprised, im on a 512k net connection.

[sillKotscha]

Some visitors are just getting a black screen with the "loading" symbol and nothing is happening.

man, i dont know but as i had another look over the html code and another pair of eyes to help me it might be that i have the solution for this :)

try changing:

<body onLoad="start2play ('video_01.mp4', false)">

to

<body onLoad="start2play ('rr71.mp4', false)">

u've renamed the files :) ... that might do the trick...

it doesn't explain why it works for 50% and for the rest not (presumed everyone got the same flash plugin) but I think that's the solution...

let's see...

[Bear]

I didn't read all the posts, I just read the first and last posts.

JW FLV player can handle h264+acc with mp4 ext. So I can't think of any reason to make the container as flv.

JW FLV player can handle h264 streaming (not progessive download) by using lighttpd, even if the ext is mp4.

[Atak_Snajpera]

Does anybody know why download button is not working
http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/1668/new1mg6.th.png (http://img523.imageshack.us/my.php?image=new1mg6.png)

<script type="text/javascript" src="swfobject.js"></script>
<body bgcolor="#F8F8F8">
<div id="player">This text will be replaced</div>

<p>
<script type="text/javascript">
var so = new SWFObject('http://www.jeroenwijering.com/embed/mediaplayer.swf','mpl','640','380','8');
so.addParam('allowscriptaccess','always');
so.addParam('allowfullscreen','true');
so.addVariable('height','380');
so.addVariable('width','640');
so.addVariable('bufferlength','15');
so.addVariable('file','http://blip.tv/file/get/Atak_snajpera-The1000thSummerOpening610.mp4');
so.addVariable('backcolor','0x000000');
so.addVariable('frontcolor','0xAAAAAA');
so.addVariable('lightcolor','0xFFFFFF');
so.addVariable('showdownload','true');

so.write('player');
</script>
</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.jeroenwijering.com/embed/mediaplayer.swf">http://www.jeroenwijering.com/embed/mediaplayer.swf</a></p>

[hubereevez]

I didn't read all the posts, I just read the first and last posts.

JW FLV player can handle h264+acc with mp4 ext. So I can't think of any reason to make the container as flv.

JW FLV player can handle h264 streaming (not progessive download) by using lighttpd, even if the ext is mp4.

Thanks dude :)

Works on IE with a nero recoded mp4 file

But not on Firefox :!

Works now :). Very good flv player

[ricardo.santos]

Hi everyone!

I'm still trying to find out whats wrong with my encodes, i tried many tools but now i only use AutoMKV and Megui.

Ive setup a test page with video samples, they play fine when in normal/window mode but as soon as i go fullscreen the stutter starts.

In the sample at the beggining the camera moves from left to right behind some soldiers and in fullscreen mode the "stutter" effect is very noticeble.

ive included AVINAPTIC stats for every video sample.

Can someone help me out on this issue? Tracking down the problem

test page is located here:
http://ricardosantos.com.pt/mp4test/

Thanks

[elguaxo]

test page is located here:
http://ricardosantos.com.pt/mp4test/

Both videos play fine at fullscreen on my PC. AMD 64 X2 3800+

[ricardo.santos]

Dont know whats going wrong :mad::mad:

the videos play well on vlc,mpc,mplayer in fullscreen, but when i view them online the problem appears.

what gets me :mad: is that the examples smok3 posted play fine here:
http://somestuff.org/flashAVC/flvplayer.php?moviename=movies/slon61_14_kdosem_rigTest3_768_320.mp4

all of them play fine!! the elephants dream clip plays fantastically well no hiccups whatsoever even on faster movement scenes.

i have a P4 2.6, 1gb ram, ati 9550