bad grain in HD DVD rips

[saint-francis]

Since I got the XBOX HD DVD add on I haven't bought any DVD's accept one TV series and to my frustration just about every backup I make suffers from serious grain in the out of focus parts of the movie. This past movie I encoded I just the pits. It still has a great deal of detail but the background throughout the entire movie is snowing with static. I originally thought that it might be LanczosResize so I tried Spline this time and the effect was worse. I used MeGUI with the HQ Insane x264 profile and crf 17. I know the problem is in the script because when I play it in MPC I see the noise but I can't for the life of me figure out what the specific issue is. I can't solve the problem by removing parts of the script so I am assuming that there is something I need to add to it.

Here's the AVS from my most recent attempt:

DirectShowSource("G:\sleepy hollow\sleepy hollow.GRF",fps=23.976,framecount=151776,\
seekzero=false,seek=true,audio=false)
#deinterlace
crop( 0, 0, 0, 0)

Spline36Resize(1280,688) # Spline36 (Neutral)
Undot() # Minimal Noise


Here are some prime examples of the issue:


http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x270/saint-francis-photos/snapshot20071104093949.jpg


http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x270/saint-francis-photos/snapshot20071104093905.jpg


Can anyone help me?:confused:

[Guest]

It's film. Film has grains.

[Dark Shikari]

If you want to remove the grain and don't care about speed, use fft3dfilter + ttempsmooth, or perhaps frfun, in your script.

[honai]

The problem with Sleepy Hollow is the constant vertical jitter (probably due to a botched film scan). It's very noticable and distracting and might throw off some noise filters.

[setarip_old]

@saint-francis

Hi!bad grain in HD DVD rips... Since I got the XBOX HD DVD add on I haven't bought any DVD's accept one TV series1) It's probably my age creeping up on me but I don't understand what a DVD of a television series has to do with the movie "Sleepy Hollow". Please be good enough to clarify.

2) Is your original "Sleep Hollow" a commercial standard DVD or a commercial HD-DVD?

3) Does the original (HD-?)DVD exhibit the same "graininess" when played on the same system?

[saint-francis]

@ setarip_old:

1.) Sorry. I was just demonstrating how frustrating this situation is for me since I have only be buying HD DVD's and I am having trouble backing them up. I only watch copies of movies that I have encoded. My son is getting to the age where he loves to destroy my DVD's so I put them away well out of his reach.

2.) My Copy of Sleepy Hollow is a HD DVD. It is only HD DVD's I am having this trouble with.

3.) The original material does not exhibit this problem.

@ everyone else:

Are you all suggesting that this "grain" is inherent in the source? I can assure you that it isn't. The DVD copy of the movie doesn't display this issue; and the HD DVD certainly doesn't. It looks like static not the usual film grain. I can upload a sample if that would be useful. Could this be a VC-1 decoding issue? I am worried about using denoisers too heavily because I don't want to loose detail. Given that my opinion is that this problem isn't in the source (and hence not the usual film grain) would taking actions to remove film grain be wise? And for the record I am unconcerned about the speed of the encoding. I am concerned strictly about the quality and ease of storage; hence re encoding the movie to a smaller file size.

[setarip_old]

The DVD copy of the movie doesn't display this issue; and the HD DVD certainly doesn't.It must be me ;>} I know the following doesn't help you in any way, but:

I don't understand - If you already have a DVD backup of your original, commercial HD-DVD, what's the purpose of making the effort to make an x264 version?

[saint-francis]

It must be me ;>} I know the following doesn't help you in any way, but:

I don't understand - If you already have a DVD backup of your original, commercial HD-DVD, what's the purpose of making the effort to make an x264 version?

I don't have a DVD backup. I have watched a friend's copy (not backup) of the DVD on my system. I have the HD DVD and want to back it up. Does this answer your question? Or do you mean what's the point of making an x264 copy if I have a HD DVD rip on my drive? If this is the question then the answer is that the HD DVD rip is huge. It's about 18 GB. The x264 backup I made is much smaller and can conveniently fit on a DVD (which is nice because I often backup my encodings to DVD's for storage).

[setarip_old]

I have watched a friend's copy (not backup) of the DVD on my system.Now I no longer feel like I've been misunderstanding.

Thanks for further clarifying...

[honai]

Are you all suggesting that this "grain" is inherent in the source?

Yes, it's inherent in the source. I have the HD-DVD here, it's exactly like in the screenshots, and a number of reviewers have also described the grain.

I can assure you that it isn't.

You're wrong.

The DVD copy of the movie doesn't display this issue

That's because (1) the DVD has lower resolution, and (2) higher compression that masks the grain.

Actually, the "grain" in Sleepy Hollow isn't really film grain but has been added digitally in order to reduce blocking in the many dark shots.

There's nothing you can do about this issue other than wait for a remastered HD-DVD. Not only has the current version lots of noise and jitter, but it's also really blurry, has bad contrast, and overall really really bad picture quality unworthy of a HD disc.

By the way, the same can be said of most of Tim Burton's releases on high-def disc - Planet of Apes, Edward Scissorhands. Only Corpse Bride looks good.

[saint-francis]

Yes, it's inherent in the source. I have the HD-DVD here, it's exactly like in the screenshots, and a number of reviewers have also described the grain.



You're wrong.

By the way, the same can be said of most of Tim Burton's releases on high-def disc - Planet of Apes, Edward Scissorhands. Only Corpse Bride looks good.

OK. Thanks for the heads up. Honestly I haven't watched the movie entirely from the disk. Only little bits here and there to check it out. It does look better than my encoding though.
Have you backed it up? If so how did you deal with this issue?

[honai]

Have you backed it up? If so how did you deal with this issue?

There's no way "to deal with this issue", and I haven't "backed it up". I simply sold the disc.

EDIT:

It seems that you think that, somehow, you could "cure" the issues. You can't. There's no way to get better picture quality from the title. The master is botched, and no processing will remedy that.

I'm afraid to say that you'll have to wait for a new remastered version.

By the way, if you already own the disc why would you want to "encode" the movie? Are you sure you're not breaking rule #6?

[setarip_old]

@saint-francis

Me:Does the original (HD-?)DVD exhibit the same "graininess" when played on the same system?
You:The original material does not exhibit this problem.
Honai:Yes, it's inherent in the source. I have the HD-DVD here, it's exactly like in the screenshots, and a number of reviewers have also described the grain.
You:Thanks for the heads up. Honestly I haven't watched the movie entirely from the disk. To say that such diametrically opposite (and misleading) responses make it difficult for members to properly assist you is an understatement.

I presume this is what has lead "honai" to ask:[Quote]Are you sure you're not breaking rule #6?

[saint-francis]

I have stated the reason earlier in this thread why I want to "encode" my DVD's and HD DVD's. I assume it's the same reason why everyone else here wants to "encode" their movies. Also while my projector is HDCP compliant, my monitor isn't. This poses difficulties when trying to play a HD DVD. In order to make it work I need to disconnect my monitor. It's a bit of an ordeal that I'd rather not contend with. I can get it to work with anydvd hd but it is costly and I'm not going to fork out the small fortune they want for it. I have already paid through the nose for the XBOX add on and a bunch of HD DVD's. I have used the trial version and it has expired. I suppose I could keep reinstalling it, but I would rather just exercise one of my hobbies and "back it up". You could ask everyone who makes a post on this forum if they are breaking rule #6 and it would amount to nothing more than thousands of useless and antagonizing posts.

Back on topic:

I have noticed similar problems with many if not all of my HD DVD's; although none so bad as Sleepy Hollow. Are all of the HD DVD's I have defective like this?

[Guest]

As I said, film has grain, and HD lets you see it. Get used to it (sit at a proper distance from your screen, like in the cinema). Or blur the hell out of your video. Your choice. There's no magic wand for this.

[saint-francis]

Ok. Thanks for clarifying.

[foxyshadis]

Many cinemaphiles adore heavy grain these days, and since they're the majority of the early adopters, the mastering caters to them somewhat. Might be a reaction against the VHS and analog cable days. If you don't like grain, you're going to have to spend a great deal of time filtering prior to encoding, unfortunately.