Dolby Surround EX with Sony Vegas 7e (V.I Suite)

[Elektra999]

Installation of ASIO4ALL (http://www.asio4all.com/) and VST Plug-ins, versions Free - V.I Suite and Classic Master Limiter (http://rapidshare.com/files/65845519/V.I_-_VI.I_Suite.rar)

This is a guide to the conversion of stereo to Doby Surround EX (6.1) with Sony Vegas 7e, V.I Suite and Classic Master Limiter.

01. Chosse File / Options / Prefences / Audio Device / To select:

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/4834/01ui4.jpg

- Default stereo and front playback device / Alanalog Out 1/2.

- Default rear playback device / Analog Out 5/6.

- Default center and LFE playback device / Analog Out 3/4

Chosse VST Effects, press Browse... to select Folder VstPlug-ins and to press the button Refresh / Apply / OK.

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/762/02ei2.jpg

02. Chosse File / Properties, To form this way... Apply / OK.

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/6879/03cr4.jpg

03. Click right button of the mouse, insert audio track. To insert 5 tracks

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/1493/04cl8.jpg

04. Press in the icon of green color,

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- track 1, Delete the 3 plug-ins and the plug-ins add fL fR and Classic Master Limiter to 0dB.

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/1671/06ha5.jpg

- track 2, Delete the 3 plug-ins and the plug-ins add CLFE and Classic Master Limiter to 0dB.
- track 3, Delete the 3 plug-ins and the plug-ins add CLFE and Classic Master Limiter to 0dB.
- track 4, Delete the 3 plug-ins and the plug-ins add sL sR and Classic Master Limiter to 0dB.
- track 5, Delete the 3 plug-ins and the plug-ins add sL sR and Classic Master Limiter to 0dB.

- To select Automation Off. To do the same thing in 5 tracks.

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05. Click right button of the mouse on the Surround Panner

To select:

http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/6017/01uu2.jpg

- track 1, -6dB = 0dB
- track 2, -6dB = 0dB
- track 3, LFE Only
- track 4, -6dB = 0dB
- track 5, -6dB = 0dB

- track 1 - Double click (in the left button of the mouse) on the Surround Panner,
To select (with the left button of the mouse) the channels: Center, SL, SR (will appear of Gray color).
To move the ball towards the center channel.

http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/1192/09za1.jpg

- track 2 - Double click (in the left button of the mouse) on the Surround Panner,
To select (with the left button of the mouse) the channels: fL, fR, sL, SR (will appear of Gray color).
To move the ball towards the central channel.

- track 4 - Double click (in the left button of the mouse) on the Surround Panner,
To select (with the left button of the mouse) the channels: fL, Center, fR (will appear of Gray color).
To move the ball towards the center of the channels sL and sR.

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/4839/10ni7.jpg

- track 5 - Double click (in the left button of the mouse) on the Surround Panner,
To select (with the left button of the mouse) the channels: fL, Center, fR (will appear of Gray color).
To move the ball towards (-15dB image = -3dB for channel SC) the center of the channels sL and sR

http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/305/02ez4.jpg

06. Chosse... Insert / Audio Bus and File / Save Ass / name and Save the proyect 6.1

07. We drag the file WAV stereo to every track of audio

http://img47.imageshack.us/img47/5448/11uc3.jpg

- button right of the mouse on the track 2 (audio WAV stereo), Channels / Left Only

http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/6608/12cp4.jpg

- button right of the mouse on the track 3 (audio WAV stereo), Channels / Right Only.

- button right of the mouse on the track 5 (audio WAV stereo), Channels / Combine.

08. Chosse... File / Render Ass, to select Dolby Digital [*,ac3]

- Press Custom

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http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/1240/14ws8.jpg
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/3214/15xq5.jpg
http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/5848/16bm9.jpg

- Press OK and Save Ass...

DOLBY SURROUND EX (6.1)

by Elektra999


EXTRAS

4 Projects Surround for Sony Vegas, with the plug-ins V.I and Classic Master Limiter:

1 - 5.1 Surround Movie - V.I+Classic
2 - 6.1 Surround Movie - V.I+Classic

For Movie, the channels fL, fR, sL, sR., sC to -3dB.
The channel center to -0dB

3 - 5.1 Surround Music - V.I+Classic
4 - 6.1 Surround Music - V.I+Classic

For Music, all the channels to -0dB, channel SC to -3dB

5 - Project 6.1 Surround, it is a normal project, without plug-ins.

Projects Vegas Surround (http://rapidshare.com/files/66335950/Surround_Proyects_Vegas.rar)

Note: Thanks to Skelsgard. I have read you in many posts, and have learned, many functions on Sony Vegas.

[oelewapper]

Strongly doubt if this will give good surround !
For better methods with far more separation : http://www.dtsac3.com

[Elektra999]

This method in Sony Vegas 7e, is the same, that, in Adobe Audition, Plogue Bidule... they all are the same result with V.I

[oelewapper]

This method in Sony Vegas 7e, is the same, that, in Adobe Audition, Plogue Bidule... they all are the same result with V.I

And V.I. is exaxctly what we try to avoid !!
At best it sounds like double stereo compared to for instance QSLCR......................

[Elektra999]

And V.I. is exaxctly what we try to avoid !!
At best it sounds like double stereo compared to for instance QSLCR......................

V.I is not any Joint stereo.
It is possible that the mixings Surround, they are not perfect, but, V.I's dynamic quality is very good.

The method QSLCR, I believe that there is used the plug-in Sonic BBE Maximizer, saying plug-in, it alters the mixings provoking a wrong monitoring in all the channels Surround.

He would say mas things ... but, for respect I close the mouth.

[ursamtl]

This is getting so childish and tedious. Olewapper, you signed another message (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1025383#post1025383) earlier this year as EOH, a member of this forum who was banned for repeatedly breaking the forum rules. Can you not learn from the past and stop all the unpleasantness? You can start by losing the obsession you have with putting down V.I every chance you get. Some people here use it and like it. Some people perhaps don't. To each his own. This constant jumping into every thread and telling us V.I is double stereo or joint stereo (which it is not) and then adding a promotion for your personal forum is childish. This is not some sort of competition. You don't get points or dollars for every user who uses your methods nor do I for users of V.I.

Elektra has been providing useful helpful surround guides for quite some time now. He doesn't deserve to have his efforts ruined by your personal vendetta so please stop.

[Dark Shikari]

This is getting so childish and tedious. Olewapper, you signed another message (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1025383#post1025383) earlier this year as EOH, a member of this forum who was banned for repeatedly breaking the forum rules. Can you not learn from the past and stop all the unpleasantness? You can start by losing the obsession you have with putting down V.I every chance you get. Some people here use it and like it. Some people perhaps don't. To each his own. This constant jumping into every thread and telling us V.I is double stereo or joint stereo (which it is not) and then adding a promotion for your personal forum is childish. This is not some sort of competition. You don't get points or dollars for every user who uses your methods nor do I for users of V.I.

Elektra has been providing useful helpful surround guides for quite some time now. He doesn't deserve to have his efforts ruined by your personal vendetta so please stop.Of course the biggest irony is that the idea that "joint stereo" is a bad thing is a complete myth; there is almost no case in which joint stereo has a negative effect on quality except where the left and right channels are completely uncorrelated.

[Elektra999]

Thanks Steve:)
Oelewapper's commentaries, they are not problems for my.
Every user, uses the method surround that better seems to him.
It seems to me likely, that, my guide is critical, and that, if it does not seem to him likely says it. I have a mind opened for all kinds of commentaries (already I am accustomed)
Oelewapper can say you, that the mixings surround, they do not seem to him to be good, or that he likes more the method QSLCR, but, what I cannot stand, is that he says, that, V.I is Joint stereo, thing that is, roundly falsely.

Not problem Steve :)

My card of sound, M-Audio Interface 410 (http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/FireWire410-main.html) , it works very good je je :rolleyes:

[ursamtl]

Of course the biggest irony is that the idea that "joint stereo" is a bad thing is a complete myth; there is almost no case in which joint stereo has a negative effect on quality except where the left and right channels are completely uncorrelated.Yes well it's a misuse of the terminology on his part anyway. He's using it in the same sense as "double stereo" and not in the audio encoding sense.

I've seen this criticism before from EOH and a couple of his forum members with regards to V.I. It supposedly means that all V.I does is copy the front stereo image to the rears. That's no more true for V.I than it is for any matrix-based surround sound approach including Dolby Surround, Dolby Pro Logic I, II, Ambisonics UHJ coding, the quadrophonic matrices SQ, QS, LCR 2-to-3-channel approaches or several others (check Wikipedia for some good basic articles on surround matrices). These all take one channel, combine it with another while manipulating phase and intensity to redistribute the audio information in two channels among more than two. One can throw in a bunch of plugins, a spreadsheet, or whatever else to make it look sophisticated and complex, but it's still all based on the same principles. Of course if you throw in extras that cause unwanted artifacts or distortion, then the results will suffer.

I could go on and get into all kinds of technical details but let's not let such a discussion hijack Elektra's guide. He's obviously put time and effort into his work and deserves to have his contribution recognized in a positive way.

[ursamtl]

what I cannot stand, is that he says, that, V.I is Joint stereo, thing that is, roundly falsely.Thanks Elektra. It`s definitely not "joint stereo" (although real joint stereo can be based on the principle of M/S coding, which as I just wrote in answer to Dark Shikari, is the foundation upon which all matrix-based surround sound approaches are built.

Thank you for the guide. By the way, did you run into any problem with Vegas 7 recognizing your V.I and other plugins when you installed it? I had some email this past weekend from a Vegas/V.I user who had problems. Once he uninstalled V.I and re-installed it afterwards, everything worked perfectly.

[Elektra999]

I do not have problems with V.I in Sony Vegas.
What can happen, is that, does not recognize Sony Vegas 7, once installed (V.I). Because of it I explain in my guide, of selecting VSTPlug-ins folder in File / Options / Prefences / VST Effects / Apply / OK and to press the button Refresh

Once I realize, admits V.I without problems.

In Cubase 4 if that I have problems with V.I :(

[Elektra999]

The question is, that V.I is not a Join stereo.

Personally, I do not like the audio in Joint stereo, I prefer a good distribution stereo independently.

Not at all, thank you for his V.I Suite, for his dynamic quality for the music, and for his effort in working so well:)

[specise_8472]

Yes well it's a misuse of the terminology on his part anyway. He's using it in the same sense as "double stereo" and not in the audio encoding sense.

I've seen this criticism before from EOH and a couple of his forum members with regards to V.I. It supposedly means that all V.I does is copy the front stereo image to the rears. That's no more true for V.I than it is for any matrix-based surround sound approach including Dolby Surround, Dolby Pro Logic I, II, Ambisonics UHJ coding, the quadrophonic matrices SQ, QS, LCR 2-to-3-channel approaches or several others (check Wikipedia for some good basic articles on surround matrices). These all take one channel, combine it with another while manipulating phase and intensity to redistribute the audio information in two channels among more than two. One can throw in a bunch of plugins, a spreadsheet, or whatever else to make it look sophisticated and complex, but it's still all based on the same principles. Of course if you throw in extras that cause unwanted artifacts or distortion, then the results will suffer.

I could go on and get into all kinds of technical details but let's not let such a discussion hijack Elektra's guide. He's obviously put time and effort into his work and deserves to have his contribution recognized in a positive way.

Not all methods involve just phase shifting etc.
Take DTS Neo6 and Trifield. They use "Steering" to produce extra channels. Take the signal, sub-band it then calculate the position in space of the signal, then "steer" the signal to that speaker. Of course this is just a quick summary of the actual process involved.
Check out US Patents #006697491 - Trifield and 007003467 - DTS Neo6.

[ursamtl]

Hi specise. You're right, steering is involved. but the extraction of the information is still done with phase information.

[balli2]

Thanks Elektra999 for your useful and great quide.

[Elektra999]

Ball2, thank you very much

I have updated the guide. There was a small mistake in the channel SC, already it is corrected.

Are upload a few projects to rapidshare, prove them when you have time

[shon3i]

Ball2, thank you very much

I have updated the guide. There was a small mistake in the channel SC, already it is corrected.

Are upload a few projects to rapidshare, prove them when you have time
well the Joint Stereo M/S is 100% lossless process. AFAIK all lossless (FLAC, APE, etc..) encoders uses Joint Stereo for coding, and good lossy encoders Lame MP3, NDAAC, CTAAC uses M/S coding when needed.

PS. Thanks for guide.

[Zaim7890]

hmm not workin for me after doin evything inserted the mp3 file to all 5 tracks click on reder as and the pro encoder doesnt come up/comes up on sound fouge with SRS. also when i go to Prefences / Audio Device the Audio device type m audio fw asio is not there.

[Elektra999]

Zaim7890,

M-Audio, is my sound card.
Downloader ASIO4ALL (http://www.asio4all.com/) for his card of sound (¿I imagine that 5.1?)

If him there does not work the Encoder AC3 Pro, it is that, it will have a version trial, it will not have the license of the Encoder AC3 Pro, etc...

¿What version of Sony Vegas used?

PS. The version Sony Vegas 7e, works perfectly ;) Click (http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/download/step2.asp?DID=697)

[Zaim7890]

sound forge 9 with srs does a 100 times better job.

this is all stereo sound frm all spkrs!?

[ACrowley]

Zaim7890,
If him there does not work the Encoder AC3 Pro, it is that, it will have a version trial, it will not have the license of the Encoder AC3 Pro, etc...

¿What version of Sony Vegas used?

PS. The version Sony Vegas 7e, works perfectly ;) Click (http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/download/step2.asp?DID=697)


You must buy/purchase the AC3 Pro Encoder .
Soundforge/vegas have only the AC3 Studio Encoder bundled