How to Deinterlace using Motion Compensation?

[Undead Sega]

I dont know if this is right right place to post this but i was wondering how do you deinterlace footage using Motion compensation?

now, i know ur probably thinking why not use other methods like Bob, Weave, Blend and so on? well, from what ive read, Motion Compensation tends to give results superior to other methods.

also, if anyone has read 100fps website, he comes to the fact that Motion Compensation retains full resolution and interlaces with accuracy if not, then fully.

http://www.100fps.com/

i am aware of the software TomsMoComp filter, which i use forever, but the only problem with it is that is will only accept the YUV or YV12 colour spaces. another problem i have with it is, when it deinterlaces, it for some odd reason leave a 'coloured ghosting' among its objects which sort of irratates me but otherwise it does the best job of deinterlacing ive ever seen and im sure alot of you will agree with me.

so i was wondering, besides from TomsMoComp, is there any other Motion Compensation deinterlacing methods out there? of course besides purchasing a TERANEX

also, to note i have used NNEDI and it took almost 4 hours for a 1 hour video into HUFFYUV AVI.

the results are more detailed and sharper than TomsMoComb, but it suprisingly resulted with aliasing or jagged edges. i might have to use an Antialiasing filter to help that, then maybe the rsults will be better. any suggestions?


i would really appreciate it if anyone can help me out here with this.

i wil look forward seeing your replies.

Cheers.

[Dark Shikari]

MCBob. Check the thread in this forum of the same title; you will find the MCBob + NNEDI script in there. It is probably the best deinterlacer in the world. It is however somewhat slow; don't expect more than a few FPS for standard definition video.

Also notice that 100fps is a very outdated website; a lot of the advice on it is no longer true.

[Undead Sega]

i see then, about 100fps, but about whats said about Motion Compensation, is that still true or very much outdated?

and i am wanting to do this for fixing interlaced PAL video which some say its PALverse or Inverse PAL. in actual terms, its Phase-Shift fixing thats needed.

but i think using Motion compensation would weild to give better results to my theory.

i also tried using MSU Field Shield Fixer, but for some odd reason, it doesnt work :(

and about MCBob + NNEDI, i am using a Dual Core processor.

[Mug Funky]

try telecide by neuron2. that will put your fields back in phase at much much much faster speeds and better accuracy than mcbob.

that is, if your source is progressive frames that have been shifted by a field.

[Undead Sega]

well im using Telecide on VirtualDubMod, and its not working whatsoever.

how do u use it? and wont it give me aliasing?

[Mug Funky]

if possible, you might want to post a sample. it's possible the field order might be set wrong?

generally, if the content really is field-shifted progressive, simply typing "telecide(order=1) will work. use order=0 for bottom-field stuff (only really useful for DV sources).

telecide shouldn't give you aliasing in this case - basically what it does is check forward and backward for fields that look most similar to the current one. the assumption is that on field-shifted video if every frame is constructed from the 2 most similar adjacent fields, then you will have progressive video with no artefacts. likewise, if your source is a 3:2 pulldown, telecide will output a progressive sequence with 1 duplicate every 5 frames. however, if your video is something other than this, you'll get some artefacts.

[Undead Sega]

ohhh right, but i was using Telecide as a filter on VirtualDub instead, can i still gani the same results? if not, where can i obtain and use the Avisynth version of Telecide?

[Adub]

On Neuron2's website.

[Undead Sega]

well thats where i got the Telecide filter from, for VirtualDub, but i dont know how to use the Avisynth one.

can someone help me out with that one?

[foxyshadis]

If you're not sure how to use avisynth, a good place to start is either avsp or something like megui's script creator. Feeding the latter into the former will get you up and running pretty quickly.

[Undead Sega]

i know how to use AviSynth, but i have more or less started not too long ago, thus how was i able to encode using NNEDI? AviSynth.

but for now, im asking how to use telecide on aviSynth?

[Chainmax]

The best way to learn how to use Decomb would be to read its excellent documentation, which is included in the zip file you downloaded from neuron2's site. After that, I'd suggest you to read the rest of the links in my signature: they all point to some excellent startup material.

[Undead Sega]

okay then, i checked out DeComb's filter:

http://www.neuron2.net/decomb/decombnew.html

and i take it this is what i am looking for?

[Undead Sega]

anyone may i ask?

[Chainmax]

Yes, it should make for a fine starting point.

[Undead Sega]

hi, i tired out telecide, and it works well, tried a few settnigs as well, and the better came out to be:

AssumeTFF().SeparateFields()
Telecide(guide=2,post=2)

only problem is, because i used speratefields, which gave me the much better result, it cuts the vertical resolution and framerate doubles. it looks very nice and very smooth infact, but because of that, the image flickers cause of the doubled framerate and te only to fix that was to dumb it down to 25fps, which accureately cuts those frames which by a pixel shifts up from the previous.

i didnt want to use threshhold, as i believe that isnt how to get acurate results.

can anyone help me on this?

[foxyshadis]

When you use your tools in ways that make no sense, anything can happen. (Telecide after SeparateFields, for instance.) I think you should post a sample of your source so one of us can tell you the sort of processing it needs.

[Undead Sega]

precisely wat i wanted to do. can u recommend me a uploading site?

[foxyshadis]

https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=96362

[Leak]

https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=96362
Say, what I meant to ask you earlier - is there a reason you're handing out https-URLs to the forum lately?

Those usually greet the user with a security prompt because the server uses a self-signed certificate, which might scare some people - and forum pages that anyone can look at probably aren't in dire need of encryption, I'd say...

Well, that's just my .02 EYPO... :)

[foxyshadis]

Beware the corrupt mod who brings false certificates upon the land!

I just copy the link or address bar. I tend to just forget that it would do that since I've been using it for all browsing for so long. >.> For us it's more important, though still a bit paranoid in the grand view.

[Adub]

How do you setup up firefox to only us https on doom9?

Sorry for the off topic, but this would be good to know.

[foxyshadis]

Change your bookmark link and stop following http: links, pretty much. The forum will use whichever one you're using for all links, there's no options to force it one way or the other.

[Adub]

Okay, thanks.

[Undead Sega]

Ok, i know it has been awhile, but ive finally did it!:

http://www.badongo.com/vid/546937

i would really be glad if someone can help me correct this problem properly.

please let me know here, thanks.

[Undead Sega]

anyone may i ask? it took me a very long time to get thi uploaded, not because its a very big file, but because im on wireless and for some odd reason, it keeps cutting my uploading everytime. thus now ive finally done it!

this is a weird kind of interlacing on a PAL 25p video. it was recorded from a freeview/DVDR box, good quality, the settings where at 16:9, PAL, Progressive recorded of TV but for some odd reason i keep getting this artifact. even on a progressive miniDVD cam i get the same results when playing it back on a PC. why is it doing all this for PAL? is it to do with it being 50Hz?

[2Bdecided]

I'd be happy to take a look, but that site requires me to download and install some software to put the file back together. I have no reason to trust that software.

However, looking at the file name, if what you've uploaded is a "fake film" sequence from BBC Two's top gear, the only possibility to mess it up is that it's field shifted. You can probably find a solution by searching the forum. If it's not field shifted, then do not deinterlace it at all. Just encode 25p.

If it's a normal interlaced part, you "just" need to deinterlace it properly. If it's too complex for the best deinterlacer, try just bobbing it.

Cheers,
David.

[Undead Sega]

ahh i see then, well i havent tried it by getting that software and i do apologize for that, looks like im gonn have to find another place to upload files now.

anyways, i was told about Field Shift, and thus i used MSU FieldShift Fixer, and no matter what, it still gives me the exact same results.

anyone?

[foxyshadis]

Don't reupload that. YV12 means recompressed, even if it's lossless the decoding could have screwed something up; in particular interlaced chroma is often broken. Upload straight from the source file, even if you have to make a binary cut of it with a hex editor. (There are generally simpler ways, such as DGIndex for vobs, virtualdub w/ direct stream copy for avi, or avidemux for practically anything.)

[Undead Sega]

no no no, its exactly as it is, it was converted to YV12 because it will make the file size alot smaller, so i can upload it here, and that i hope someone can help me out here with this. if u downlaod it, im sure u would recognize waht i mean.

and thus nothing is different, and i dont believe it will mess up the interlace. i can tell u that, that this file did came from the source file and just encoded using Lagarith YV12, thus it being exactly the same (besides maybe colour and file size).

[scharfis_brain]

recompressing a file means, that you're actually ALTERING the source.

So does converting to YV12, cause it - if not done carefully - destroys interlacing!

if you need a smaller filesize, try to compress it with RAR or 7Z.

You have to provide an >>unprocessed<< video file.

[Undead Sega]

it is an 'unprocessed' video file, nothing has been done to it besides saving it using Lagarith with the colour space YV12, and i know what to expect when im converting colour spaces, and literally, using this method i see no difference whatsoever!

and the interlacing is exactly the same as the source. i do not need to upload a 355mb video file thats only 30secs long!

[2Bdecided]

The original will be YV12 so there may be no colour space conversion, but the thing to do is to upload a part of the _original_. No need to re-compress it - there are plenty of tools that will cut (without re-encoding) DVB-T transport streams, or parts of, or demuxed, or elements, or program streams, or...

VideoReDo is user friendly, with a free trial, if none of the suggested methods work.

Cheers,
David.

[Undead Sega]

it is part of the original, its only 30secs long, and again, it is unprocessed. dont forget, it is a lossless video file, which is why some may complain it is abit big. unless u really want me to upload the RGB file of the sample.

has anyone downloaded it by any chance?

[Blue_MiSfit]

Dude you're really not listening to what ppl are saying...

You really do need to upload EXACTLY what you captured. No change, whatsoever - just to be safe.

If your source is actually RGB (not sure why), you need to upload a small sample of that. 5-10 seconds should be more than enough actually.

The concerns expressed about interlacing being damaged by careless colorspace conversions are very valid. The "color ghosting" you mentioned in your OP are symptomatic of this. RGB -> YUY2 or YV12 != unprocessed!

If you did capture in raw RGB, I would suggest capturing into YUY2 Lagarith or Huffy in the future. It will save a lot of time and space. You don't have to give us an uncompressed sample, but just don't re-encode it!

How exactly did you acquire this footage? What it an analog capture? (sounds like it) Maybe a digital transport stream copy?

~MiSfit

[Undead Sega]

no, i dont think im being listened properly. for now, lets forget the OP atm, as i have been suggested the 'proper' way of correcting this problem, cause i tought motion compensation would wield better results.

if u read what i wrote earlier on on how i captured, was:

1. Recorded footage on my Panasonic EZ25 Freeview/DVD recorder, on the settings XP Mode (1hr recording), 16:9 TV Aspect Ratio, and set to Progressive.

2. Once on disc and finalized, it is taken to my computer where the DVD is ripped directly using cladDVDXP into 1 VOB file.

3. Upon noticing while watching, it is obvious that interlacing artifacts can be seen, even set to Progressive, some dubb this as 'PAL-verse' or 'Inverse PAL', ad this could very well be the problem.

4. But how into an avi file? loaded VOB file into VirtualDub or TMPEGEnc with none of the deinterlacing enabled and saved it using HuffYuv or Lagarith (depending on what mood im in:D) on the setting RGB.

5. When i made my sample, i took that AVI file and cut it down using either VirtualDub or Adobe Premiere Pro and saved it using Lagarith, BUT just changing the Mode to 'YV12' only! when done this, i know that the quality and colour itself hasnt changed, only the filesize has by halfing it from RGB filesize itself. Quality wise, i did a thorough comparision by opening 2 VirtualDub and one of them having the RGB video file and the other with the YV12 video file, both at the same frame, and litrerally flicking between the 2 by seeing any colour changes, macroblocks, interlacing changes, artifacts, but none of those.

not an analogue capture, its from Freeview :D

hope that helps.

[scharfis_brain]

1) load the vob-file into dgindex
2) select a scene
3) use file -> save project and demux video
4) upload the m2v-file somewhere (megaupload or rapidshare)

Do NEVER convert files you want us to analyse.
VOB to AVI is a conversion, cause you are decompressing the MPEG! This destroys specific characteristics of the MPEG...

[Didée]

Undead Sega, you are telling quite some nonsense there.


1. Load VOB into DGindex.
2. Select a range using the "[" & "]" markers
3. Choose "file" -> "Save Project and Demux Video"
4. Upload the resulting *.m2v file to a normal free hosting service

This should be rather easy to do.

If you fail to do that, and instead continue with telling experienced users that they don't know or understand, I'll put you on my troll list.


edit: oops, scharfi was faster.

[Blue_MiSfit]

on the settings XP Mode (1hr recording), 16:9 TV Aspect Ratio, and set to Progressive.


There might be the issue. It's possible your DVD recorder totally b0rked the recording process. I'm guessing your original source was analog PAL TV, which is interlaced. If you record in progressive mode.... that's probably gone :(

Let's see that m2v sample though.

~MiSfit

[Undead Sega]

VOB to AVI is a conversion, cause you are decompressing the MPEG!

even though it being Lossless?

anyways, here you go:

http://www.badongo.com/file/5439853

btw, i do somewhat know what im talking about, but i do nto wish to annoy people either.

Enjoy!:D

[ajk]

Perhaps I'm too tired, or am confused as to what your original question actually was, but... :) This seems like regular interlaced video (all fields are separate images, except the spinning gear intro which appears to be progressive) and mcbob() works quite well on it, I can't see any specific interlace artifacts or significant aliasing.

[Undead Sega]

it was a slightly bad example, as i do not have the orignal m2v of the first sample, otherwise i will have to dig hard for it. it is literally the same and that the first sample provides a better example.

i read it was a trivial thing but im not sure if mine is precisely that:

http://neuron2.net/LVG/telecining5.html

[scharfis_brain]

The sample you sent is pure interlaced.
50 fields of motion per second.

There is no telecining there.

The only issues I can see are
1) the horrible compression artifacts
2) lousy camera quality (blurry video oversharpened)

[foxyshadis]

even though it being Lossless?

anyways, here you go:

http://www.badongo.com/file/5439853

btw, i do somewhat know what im talking about, but i do nto wish to annoy people either.

Enjoy!:D

The encoding is lossless, there's no disputing that. But: The decoding may or may not be. There are different ways to decode YUV into RGB, and different ways to encode RGB into YUV. Some of them will smear the chroma component. If you don't go back and forth in exactly the same way, it can also come out too bright, too dark, or more green or more orange.

Can't load anything atm, I'll have to try again tonight. :(

[2Bdecided]

There might be the issue. It's possible your DVD recorder totally b0rked the recording process.I doubt the "progressive" setting refers to recording (that'll be the component video out mode). Or the 16:9 setting (that'll be the TV type).

This is a DVD recorder with an inbuilt digital tuner. It knows the aspect ratio of the content. I bet it always records MPEG-2 flagged as "interlaced" too, even when it's progressive. That's fine, and very common, and not the issue here.

In fact, it sounds like there is no issue here. Too late to D/L and check, but I'm sure ajk and scharfis brain are right.

Cheers,
David.

[scharfis_brain]

Oh, I forgot to mention a third issue:

the content actually is anamorpic 16x9 flagged as 4x3

[Undead Sega]

i see then, maybe it is no wonder why i get 50fps when i used Decomb:

AssumeTFF().SeparateFields()
Telecide(guide=2,post=2)

but in anycase, it is what i thought it would be, an interlaced video of 50fields.

the artifacts u see are actual TV signal artifacts due it being a Digital TV, of course it wouldnt give the best results yet, but i am quite happy with whats been given. no oversharpening i can tell u that.

so what will i have to do with this then may i ask?

Update: the oringal broadcast of this is 16:9, thus i changed the setting from 4:3 letterbox to 16:9 because i want the footage to accumulate the whole onscreen resolution and then to work from that.

[scharfis_brain]

decomd is not built for fullframerate deinterlacing!

also separatefields().telecide() is an abuse!

forget all that fieldmatching stuff and start to use a deinterlacer suited for you video.

mcbob(),
tdeint(),
yadif(),
kernelbob()

etc...

[Undead Sega]

okay then, well thats one thing off the border.

ive used NNEDI, before all of this, but i dont know if iw as satisfied but i could be dead wrong, may i ask, was that a good deinterlacer?

[scharfis_brain]

nnedi is just a interpolator

you need to feed a deinterlacer (which builds a motion mask) with this interpolation.

yadifmod and tdeint can be fed via the edeint-parameter with an external interpolation.

[Undead Sega]

i see then, however, i have been reading through these forums thoroughly, and im hearing that MCBob tends to be the best Motion Compensation deniterlacer, can someone correct me on this?

also, i tried out a few settings on TMPEGEnc Xpress filters on deinterlacing, and jsut to experiment, i used 'Deinterlace Always double framerate', and 'Interpolate-adjusted'. The results were very smooth, due to the fact it makes each field a frame and plays back really smoothly, which would make it perfect for a HDTV.

i think an Anti-Aliasing filter might be needed to help improve the imagr quality, but that is only an option, can also someone tell me if it will be a good idea?

[ajk]

What is best is always subjective to the viewer and the video in question, but MCBob is usually very good. That still doesn't mean one should always use it without examining the result, or trying other methods.

jsut to experiment, i used 'Deinterlace Always double framerate', and 'Interpolate-adjusted'. The results were very smooth, due to the fact it makes each field a frame and plays back really smoothly, which would make it perfect for a HDTV.

This is pretty much what all bob() type filters do, MCbob naturally included. The only thing is this means double the amount of frames, and therefore larger bitrate required for the final encode. If this is not a problem, outputting at 50p will definitely be smoother.

Whether or not the video needs anti-aliasing after bobbing depends on the bob filter and how you want the video to look.

[Undead Sega]

well my subjective view on when doing interlacing is literally try to deinterlace a video without any loss of quality, as we all know that deinterlacing is quite a lossy process, so im looking around what is best or if there really is a way.

and for those interested, here is the sample again at 50p:

http://www.badongo.com/file/5481901

[ajk]

Well, going double frame rate is then best in the sense that it retains all the motion. But there are many ways of doing it, and they tend to introduce some issues of their own. In this new sample you sent you can see for example how the top of the blue car shimmers or wiggles especially while the camera is panning to it, this is a very common issue and can't really be perfectly solved. But if you don't mind the effect too much, obviously you have already found a suitable way :)

[Undead Sega]

thats cool then, i have noticed that from the start, and i would thought that abit of anti-aliasing would help on that, btu im not sure.

but with the settings i have chosen, do u think that was the appropiate settings or could there have been better in which there would be no loss of quality watsoever?

[Undead Sega]

the whole 50p thing was jsut experimental, and of course there is no way to get that into DVD (unless there was a way to fit all frames in 25fps.

anyone may i ask? could there be a better result? or a better solution to this?

[ajk]

Interlacing is exactly the way to fit 50 images into 25 frames per second. If you intend to make a DVD out of it, just leave it interlaced. Making it progressive 50p only makes sense if you want to view it on the computer, or some other device that can't really do the deinterlacing on its own.

[Undead Sega]

well, may i ask, how did movies manage to view High Speed footage (like bullet time or chinese epics where they move really slow) into the current FPS?

maybe using that method could help view more frames in 25p.

[scharfis_brain]

they just to slow motion.

eg. let the footage run slower :p

[Undead Sega]

that is not sure, they are captured using a high speed camera which captures at like 100fps, or a roll of film that is sped up, and yet in films like the matrix and crouching tiger hidden dragon, where they all go slow is actually mroe frames being displayed than literally slowing it down, sure they have slowed it down but it u watch carefully, it looks more seemless as it atualyl was captured at a higher frame rate.

[Undead Sega]

did anyone understood what i mean or meant may i ask?

anyone?

[foxyshadis]

If you play 50 fps at 25 fps it'll be twice as slow, but still have the full motion of 50 fps, that's what he meant. 200 fps at 25 fps, you could go 1/8 the speed with full fluidity. You can use assumefps in avisynth. You can simulate super-speed shutters for slo-mo with motionprotectedfps and mvflowfps, but they aren't perfect.

[Undead Sega]

is ee then, well im going to do a few experiments relating to slowing and speeding, which i have done so, and nearly suceeded.

but before i go on, i would like to know, besides the method i have used for make a 50fps video, is there a proper or better way to deinterlace a video where each field becomes a frame, thus creating 50fps than merging the 2 fields to become 1 frame?

[scharfis_brain]

but before i go on, i would like to know, besides the method i have used for make a 50fps video, is there a proper or better way to deinterlace a video where each field becomes a frame, thus creating 50fps than merging the 2 fields to become 1 frame?

Forget that stuff.
Deinterlacing to 50 fps or to 25 fps is technically not different.

25fps output is just every other frame of the 50fps output.

You can force any 25fps deinterlacer to put out 50fps by calling it twice and doing some clever field order manipulations.

[Undead Sega]

but thats not exactly true, i even uploaded a 50p sample, and even did tests and that every after frame does not get replicated. the results look very smooth and fluid and that i even checked it frame b frame to see if ther was a difference or even just replicated, and i found it more or less does somewhat an interpolated frame of the next, like predicting how the frame will look from Frame 1 and Frame 2.

hope that makes sense, look out for the sample i uploaded.

[ajk]

If you have a 50i source like this Top Gear, you get 50 frames per second after bob-deinterlacing, and smooth motion.

If you merge the fields together (or discard every other frame after bobbing), you get 25 frames per second (non-interlaced), and less smooth motion. Which is it you want? :)

[scharfis_brain]

no, You don't understand.

deinterlacing means: take the CURRENT field and try to fill the missing lines with
a) lines from the previous (or next) field if there is no motion
or
b) an interpolation of the current field

normal deinterlacing to 25fps only considers the even fields as current fields and uses the odd fields for fill in the missing lines.

doublerate deinterlacing (also called bobbing) to 50fps considers the even AND odd fields in an alternating manner as current fields and uses the opposite fields to be filled in static areas.

there is absolutely NO motion interpolation done with deinterlacers.

have a look:

a normal deinterlacing to 25 fps looks like this:
(it only delivers the even fields deinterlaced!)
mpeg2source("VTS_01_1.demuxed.d2v")
tdeint()

one can force every deinterlacer to deliver 50fps by changing the fieldorder and calling it a second time:
source=mpeg2source("VTS_01_1.demuxed.d2v")
evenfield=source.tdeint() #deinterlace even fields
oddfield=source.doubleweave().selectodd().tdeint() #deinterlace odd fields
interleave(evenfield,oddfield) #alternate both

since this is uncomfortable to handle, there are parameters to switch deinterlacers to do exactly this thing internally!
This also reduces processing time, because the motion mask only gets computed once:
mpeg2source("VTS_01_1.demuxed.d2v")
tdeint(mode=1) #deinterlace to 50fps

[Undead Sega]

okay then, that does make things explained better. and i know that i have gotten a 50p from a 50i source.

If you merge the fields together (or discard every other frame after bobbing), you get 25 frames per second (non-interlaced), and less smooth motion. Which is it you want?

what i want is, how to perfectly deinterace the source in both 50p and 25p. but im more focuses on doing it on 25p.

because of the source i have 50i, and that deinterlacing is a lossy process, can someone correct me if there is a way to perfectly deinterlace the spource to 25p without any loss of quality and obtaining a perfect result?

i'll focus on that now.

[scharfis_brain]

since I gave you the basics you can answer this to yourself.
ajk also answered you.

50i means 50 states of motion per second
25p means 25 states of motion per second
so you loos half of the frames (or fields) ie. half of the states of motion per second. meaning that you WILL loose motion fluidity.

[Undead Sega]

very well, but may i ask, will this perfectly deinterlace the video without loss of quality then?

i know it sounds stupid for me to ask, but i just want to make sure as i want to be very certain with things.

i hope u dont mind

[Blue_MiSfit]

That's an impossible question to answer :)

Define quality. If you refer to motion fluidity, then yes it is possible. At 50p. Not at 25p.

If you refer to spatial image quality, then it all depends on which deinterlacer you use, and how it works with your video.

Deinterlacing is hard to do. There is almost always some loss of quality - but how much quality is lost (and even what your basis of comparison for how much is lost) is unknown.

You just have to try some of the popular deinterlacers, and decide which one suits your needs best.

~MiSfit

[Zanejin]

there is absolutely NO motion interpolation done with deinterlacers.
If motion interpolation is not involved in deinterlacing, what role does it play in bobbers such as MVBob and MCBob? I don't think I ever really grasped the concept of deinterlacing, and this thread is certainly helping.

[scharfis_brain]

mvbob() and mcbob() don't do motion interpolation.
The do motion compensation.

[Undead Sega]

Define quality.

well, i think the quality that im looking for is image quality. im very aware of the 50p process, but i woul dlike to know that, from making 50i to 50p, is there a way of doing this without loss of image quality?

now, with deinterlacing to 25p, the same applies really, image quality is top on the list for me. sometimes its really good to film with an Interlace camcorder or record 50i from broadcasts, but then, getting the original Progressive frames (unlike extracting them from an NTSC 29.97 to 23.976) is somewhat in my learning stage, even though i know how it is done, i am asking here if it is possible to retain the quality of the original and yet have it on the European standard (PAL:D)

[scharfis_brain]

deinterlacing to 50p doesn't loos any information.
all information from the fields is kept completely.

The thing with perceived quality is the quality of interpolation and motion detection.
The Deinerlacer has to fill the missing lines by guessing. And that is not easy. Also it is not a lossy process. It actually is an additive process!

Again: deinterlacing to 25p is the very same like deinterlacing to 50p. The Deinterlacing quality is identical (besides the framecount).
You seem to claim, that 50p deinterlacing is worse compared to 25p in terms of quality. But this is just a visualb thing, cause you can notice interlace flicker with 50p, where you cannot notice it in 25p, no matter which deinterlacer you are using.
Even the simplest deinterlacer will not show any interlace flicker at 25p output!

[ajk]

I'm not sure if you know what you are asking. There is no difference in de-interlacing PAL video and NTSC video.

Extracting the original progressive frames (if they even existed in the first place) from an interlaced video stream is not possible, not in NTSC nor PAL. With the interlacing half of each frame is lost. Motion compensated bobbers etc do a good job of guessing what used to be there, but it will never be perfect.

Now, if the original information was film based (ie. 24 fps) to begin with, then you can usually recover the original, progressive frames. But then this is not de-interlacing per se, rather inverse telecine, or in the case of PAL nothing needs to be done (possibly a field shift correction). But in this Top Gear clip this is not the case, and you can not recover any progressive frames, they simply are not there.

[Undead Sega]

Now, if the original information was film based (ie. 24 fps) to begin with, then you can usually recover the original, progressive frames. But then this is not de-interlacing per se, rather inverse telecine, or in the case of PAL nothing needs to be done (possibly a field shift correction). But in this Top Gear clip this is not the case, and you can not recover any progressive frames, they simply are not there.

okay then, that again does make better sense (cant believe how wrong i was this time, i should have known this better or should have remembered).

deinterlacing to 50p doesn't loos any information.

well, from that, now i would like to ask, the process from 50i to 50p is deinterlacing? and what quality will be lost and what will stay the same?

The Deinerlacer has to fill the missing lines by guessing.Motion compensated bobbers etc do a good job of guessing what used to be there, but it will never be perfect.

Motion Compensation filters are great arent they? :D

But in this Top Gear clip this is not the case, and you can not recover any progressive frames, they simply are not there.

besides from what ive asked, what do you recommend from my situations of deinterlacing?

[Undead Sega]

This also reduces processing time, because the motion mask only gets computed once:

Code:
mpeg2source("VTS_01_1.demuxed.d2v")
tdeint(mode=1) #deinterlace to 50fps

so, if i were to use this code to deinterlace to 50p, would i gain better results than the one i used in TMPEGEnc Xpress, with the settings i used that i mentioned earlier?

[scharfis_brain]

I don't know the deinterlacing quality of TMPGEnc Xpress.

so I cannot compare.

[Undead Sega]

well, i posted a link to it in a previous post:

http://www.badongo.com/file/5481901

the settings where...

Deinterlace Mode: Deinterlace always (double framerate)
Deinterlace field: Bottom Field First
Deinterlace Method: Interpolation - Simple

hope that helps.

[ajk]

That link only gives me a 19kB file which does not work as a video file at all, but judging by

Deinterlace Method: Interpolation - Simple

you can probably do better with the help of some more sophisticated filter in Avisynth. But again, this is a subjective matter for you to test and see what you like best.

[Undead Sega]

That link only gives me a 19kB file which does not work as a video file at all, but judging by

its actually 28MB, i dont know where u get that from. click on the actual link and u'll see it on the page.

tell me what u think.

[ajk]

I realise it should be bigger, but apparently the site doesn't work properly right now. It wasn't actually even 19 kilobytes.

http://i18.tinypic.com/6ybfjna.png

In any case, you don't need my opinion, simply try different deinterlacers (yadif(), mv/mcbob() for example) and see which one you like best :)

[Undead Sega]

well i would recommend you try again later.

and to have a look at it youself as i previously mentioned :D

[Undead Sega]

so, how did you manage may i ask?

also, notto forget to mention, i would very much like to know how to use MCBob, but everything by looking at it boggles me.

i also came across this:

http://www.alparysoft.com/products.php?item=6

[2Bdecided]

The thing is Undead Sega, you've ignored most of the advice you've been given. Several people have asked for a raw clip uploaded to a reliable sharing site, and instead you still point to the processed clip you uploaded to a site that no one here uses.

Without seeing the clip, people have suggested various deinterlacers. The information for making them work is all here on doom9, but it requires work on your part (searching the forum) to find it.

I think it's unlikely someone will take the time to explain again how to use mcbob, when the information is there already.

The missing information is your original source - we don't have that. Unless you can upload this somewhere (even a very short section, if file size is a problem), how can we help you any more than reading any other thread would help?

Cheers,
David.

[Undead Sega]

okay look, around here its abit messy on which file is which or what we were talking about.

i will upload the unprocessed video clip to have a look at (again), and what u lot suggest best for it.

also regarding the answers that has been answered for me already, i just wanted to go alittle indepth with it, like the way it deinterlaces compared to other applications that does. for example, the way how AviSynth deinterlaces a video clip compared to TMPEGEnc Xpress's settings.

[Undead Sega]

okay, nearly getting the clip uploaded again, but may i ask, can MCBob take RGB colour space sources?

[Didée]

No, it can't. MCBob uses several filters that support only YV12, so that's what MCBob supports.

[Undead Sega]

ahh i see then, well i was looking around how its done, and here is an example of what the script looks like:

LoadPlugin("C:\Downlaods\VirtualDubMod_1_5_10_2_b2542\mvtools-v1.8.6\mvtools.dll)
LoadPlugin("C:\Downloads\VirtualDubMod_1_5_10_2_b2542\masktools-v2.0a32\mt_masktools.dll)
LoadPlugin("C:\Downloads\VirtualDubMod_1_5_10_2_b2542\Eedi2mt\EEDI2_imp.dll)
LoadPlugin("C:\Downloads\VirtualDubMod_1_5_10_2_b2542\RemoveGrain\RemoveGrain.dll)
LoadPlugin("C:\Downloads\VirtualDubMod_1_5_10_2_b2542\ReduceFlicker\ReduceFlickerSSE3.dll)
LoadPlugin("C:\Downloads\VirtualDubMod_1_5_10_2_b2542\medianblur084\medianblur.dll)
AviSource("C:\***.avi")
MCBob()

and i get an error, what could be wrong with this may i ask? could it be because the souece is an RGB? and what would i have to do then?

[Didée]

I just told you that MCBob supports only YV12, now you ask if it's a problem that the source is RGB?

[Undead Sega]

well i converted the source to YV12 using LAGS (which always works for me) but i still get the problem:

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff92/phantom_007/virtualduberror.jpg

[Terranigma]

well i converted the source to YV12 using LAGS (which always works for me)
That's silly. All you need to do, is convert the colorspace via
ConvertToYV12()
:p



but i still get the problem:

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff92/phantom_007/virtualduberror.jpg
Because your mcbob is broken. Use this (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=988224#post988224) one

[Undead Sega]

dont worry dont worry! fixed it, i forgot to add the most simplest thing (which i wont mentioned), but now it is telling me it cannot load the mvtools plugin:

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff92/phantom_007/virtualduberror-1.jpg

[jeffy]

Is Downlaods in the folder name intentional??

[Undead Sega]

yeah, now a new one arises after fixing that one (cheers for that anyways, just came out of a serious illness):

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff92/phantom_007/virtualduberror-2.jpg

[foxyshadis]

If you're sure it's there, it might be a broken plugin, or your system just doesn't support SSE3 and you need the SSE or SSE2 version. Drag-dropping it into avsp is the surest way of copying the path correctly.

[Undead Sega]

well i do have an Intel core 2 Duo, which does support SSE3, and i have looked over the whole thing again and again for any silly little mistakes, cant find any yet.

and wat is avsp?

[Undead Sega]

okay, i fixed that bit up, but now a new problem which is now frustrating me, saying it doesnt know what 'MCBob' means or is.

what could be doing this one?

[jeffy]

okay, i fixed that bit up, but now a new problem which is now frustrating me, saying it doesnt know what 'MCBob' means or is.

what could be doing this one?

:script: :thanks:

[jeffy]

well i do have an Intel core 2 Duo, which does support SSE3, and i have looked over the whole thing again and again for any silly little mistakes, cant find any yet.

and wat is avsp?

Quoting:
AvsP is a text editor built for AviSynth, a video scripting language.

http://avisynth.org/qwerpoi/

[Undead Sega]

my script is:

LoadPlugin("C:\Downloads\VirtualDubMod_1_5_10_2_b2542\mvtools-v1.8.6\mvtools.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Downloads\VirtualDubMod_1_5_10_2_b2542\masktools-v2.0a32\mt_masktools.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Downloads\VirtualDubMod_1_5_10_2_b2542\Eedi2mt\EEDI2_imp.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Downloads\VirtualDubMod_1_5_10_2_b2542\RemoveGrain\RemoveGrainSSE3.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Downloads\VirtualDubMod_1_5_10_2_b2542\ReduceFlicker\ReduceFlickerSSE3.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Downloads\VirtualDubMod_1_5_10_2_b2542\medianblur084\medianblur.dll")
AviSource("C:\some file.avi")
MCBob()

[jeffy]

Undead Sega:
I think you are missing something like this:
Import("C:\PATH_TO\mcbob.avsi") before the AviSource line.

[Undead Sega]

i see, but what is mcbob.avsi? is that something i have to obtain?

[jeffy]

i see, but what is mcbob.avsi? is that something i have to obtain?
Answer:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1057526#post1057526

*.AVSI is just a file with the script, so you can reuse it in your AVS files. MCBob is here:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=124676

You can also copy & paste the whole script into your AVS file.

[Undead Sega]

well my script for the avs is:

LoadPlugin("C:\Downloads\VirtualDubMod_1_5_10_2_b2542\mvtools-v1.8.6\mvtools.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Downloads\VirtualDubMod_1_5_10_2_b2542\masktools-v2.0a32\mt_masktools.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Downloads\VirtualDubMod_1_5_10_2_b2542\Eedi2mt\EEDI2_imp.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Downloads\VirtualDubMod_1_5_10_2_b2542\RemoveGrain\RemoveGrainSSE3.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Downloads\VirtualDubMod_1_5_10_2_b2542\ReduceFlicker\ReduceFlickerSSE3.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Downloads\VirtualDubMod_1_5_10_2_b2542\medianblur084\medianblur.dll")
Import("C:\Christmas TV Burp\MCBob.avsi")
AviSource("C:\Christmas TV Burp\VTS_01_PGC_01_1 YV12.avi")
MCBob()

and this goes the same for the avsi file as well. may i ask are they both ought to be the same?

cause i open the avs file into virtualdub and it just closes after a couple of secs thinking if it was going to actually work this time.

[jeffy]

well my script for the avs is:

....

and this goes the same for the avsi file as well. may i ask are they both ought to be the same?

cause i open the avs file into virtualdub and it just closes after a couple of secs thinking if it was going to actually work this time.

No, you must either save the whole mcbob code linked in the thread you were pointed to as mcbob.avsi [or mcbob.avs or whatever.avs/whatever.avsi] and then import it into your script OR you must copy the whole mcbob code at the end of your avs file. Your mcbob.avsi can't be the same as your avs file.

The line SetMemoryMax(128) might help you to decrease the used memory if VirtualDub was still closing and you can try lowering it down eg. SetMemoryMax(64) or SetMemoryMax(32)

Download the file:
http://home.arcor.de/dhanselmann/_stuff/MCBob_v03c.avs

Working example:
SetMemoryMax(128)
LoadPlugin("C:\DLL\DGDecode.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\DLL\EEDI2.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\DLL\MVTools.dll")
import("C:\AVS\MCBob_v03c.avs")
MPEG2Source("sample.d2v", idct=4)
mcbob()

3-4 fps is normal.

If too slow, another try, Yadif, decent quality, fast:
Download at the end of this page:
http://avisynth.org.ru/yadif/yadif.html


SetMemoryMax(128)
LoadPlugin("C:\DLL\DGDecode.dll")
Load_Stdcall_plugin("C:\DLL\yadif.dll")
MPEG2Source("sample.d2v", idct=4)
yadif()

Ehm... 10 times faster?

EDIT:
If you want double framerate like mcbob does, the code is:
yadif(mode=1) instead of a simple yadif(). More info is in the documentation and the abovementioned website.

[Undead Sega]

Cheers! thanks very much for that, now my new script is now:

LoadPlugin("C:\Downloads\VirtualDubMod_1_5_10_2_b2542\mvtools-v1.8.6\mvtools.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Downloads\VirtualDubMod_1_5_10_2_b2542\masktools-v2.0a32\mt_masktools.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Downloads\VirtualDubMod_1_5_10_2_b2542\Eedi2mt\EEDI2_imp.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Downloads\VirtualDubMod_1_5_10_2_b2542\RemoveGrain\RemoveGrainSSE3.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Downloads\VirtualDubMod_1_5_10_2_b2542\ReduceFlicker\ReduceFlickerSSE3.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Downloads\VirtualDubMod_1_5_10_2_b2542\medianblur084\medianblur.dll")
Import("C:\Christmas TV Burp\MCBob_v03c.avs")
AviSource("C:\Christmas TV Burp\VTS_01_PGC_01_1 YV12.avi")
MCBob()
but because of that, i have now a new problem:

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff92/phantom_007/virtualduberror-3.jpg

[Blue_MiSfit]

You need repairsse3.dll, which is part of the removegrain package

~MiSfit

[Undead Sega]

Bingo! got it working! finally!

now looking at the results, they do look particully fine, but at some points, i do see some jagged edges, but overall, deinterlaces pretty well.

but of course, pretty slow, even on my Dual Core machine with 2GB DDR2. is there anyway to make this process take advantage of this power?

[Blue_MiSfit]

IIRC, MVTools has recently become capable of multithreading. If so, that should remove the only obstacle to running MCBob multithreaded. This could improve speed quite a bit, not sure.

Do some reading in the MT avisynth and MVTools threads.

~MiSfit

[Undead Sega]

hey everyone, thanks for all the replies, and its been really helpful.

now i just wanted to know, if someone can help MoComp deinterlace an MPEG file within Avisynth? i am not sure exactly how to do this.

~MiSfit
__________________
Mourning the death of HD-DVD...

i feel your pain.

[foxyshadis]

There's no difference between avi, mpeg, and other formats, it's all just video fields/frames and they can all be deinterlaced in the same way.

[Undead Sega]

well i was hoping to take an MPEG 2 file into AviSynth, because converting an interlaced MPEG 2 file to an AVI will destroy the interlacing, thus wanting to keep it and deinterlace it from the original.

P.S. Does anyone know and where is YadifMod?

[45tripp]

because converting an interlaced MPEG 2 file to an AVI will destroy the interlacing,
not necessarily

well i was hoping to take an MPEG 2 file into AviSynth,
http://neuron2.net/dgmpgdec/dgmpgdec.html


P.S. Does anyone know and where is YadifMod?
http://web.missouri.edu/~kes25c/

[Undead Sega]

been there, done that, but it doesnt specifically explain what is YadifMod, in comparision with the original Yadif.

and how do i get DGMPGDec to work wiht Avisynth?

[halsboss]

1) Doesn't it ? From the link http://web.missouri.edu/~kes25c/ given by Immersion
yadifmod - 09/15/2007 v1.0 (Released)

Modified version of Fizick's avisynth filter port of yadif from mplayer. This version doesn't internally generate spatial predictions, but takes them from an external clip. It also is not an Avisynth_C plugin (just a normal one). This version works with YV12 and YUY2 colorspaces.

2) Run DGindex over your video file to produce a .d2v file, then with the right loadplugin, include the line MPEG2Source("...",...) in your .avs file as shown in threads above ? I recall the readme and/or help text and/or search yields those things ?

[Undead Sega]

yadifmod - 09/15/2007 v1.0 (Released)

Modified version of Fizick's avisynth filter port of yadif from mplayer. This version doesn't internally generate spatial predictions, but takes them from an external clip. It also is not an Avisynth_C plugin (just a normal one). This version works with YV12 and YUY2 colorspaces.

i have read this nicely, but i would like to know how does this differ from the original Yadif filter. can anyone tell me this?

[halsboss]

Search is your friend.
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1045451&highlight=yadifmod#post1045451
says
yadifmod v1.0. I've had this for a while, but never got it together for release. It is the same as Fizick's port, except that spatial predictions are taken from a user supplied clip. Also, it is not an Avisynth_C plugin. It works with YV12 and YUY2 input.
i.e. it does the same thing except you supply it with spatial predictions clip of your own... you might have denoised it or done something else special to it for example. Use search to find examples of its use, if you need eg http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1079266#post1079266 has comments.

[Undead Sega]

ohh great, thanks very much for that.

i was hoping to use YadifMod() with NNEDI, but it doesnt talk much about that, besides for how slow it is.

btw, i knwo this seem abit of a silly question, but remind me of what is spatial predictions? in yadif itself as well.

[Undead Sega]

anyone?

[halsboss]

Google search yielded : "Understanding Yadif" http://trac.handbrake.fr/wiki/yadif

Doom9 search yielded:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1079671#post1079671
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1045907#post1045907
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=610112#post610112

Try it !

[Undead Sega]

ohh okay, excellent then.

well, if i wanted to use this with NNEDI, what would i have to do?

and how does this filter's stability and quality compare to MCBob?

[halsboss]

Goodness me. Search IS your friend. This is the last time I'll do it for you.
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1115201#post1115201

[Undead Sega]

Wow, isn't YadifMod great for great quality deinterlacing (like MCBob) but at quicker times? alot better than Yadif itself, especially when combined with NNEDI, another great filter and anti-aliasing.

[halsboss]

Post your script and a couple of .png before/after samples :)

[Undead Sega]

well my script was a simple and rubbish:

LoadPlugin("C:\Downloads\VirtualDubMod_1_5_10_2_b2542\yadifmod\yadifmod.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Downloads\VirtualDubMod_1_5_10_2_b2542\nnedi_v1.3\nnedi.dll")
AviSource("C:\Top Gear\TOP GEAR Series 10 Episode 2 quarterfinal.avi")
ConvertToYV12()
yadifmod(order=-1,field=-1,mode=0,edeint=nnedi,opt=0)
ConvertToRGB()

remember, i am only a beginner, who knows a few things :D

[Undead Sega]

(crappy know)

but i did forgot to mention something, even though YadifMod is a very good filter and deinterlacer, but i did take notice that there are a few shots or frames that did not get deinterlaced whatsoever.

for example, when a scene changes, the first frame of that scene is filtered, then the next to the rest afterwards changes to a unprocessed scene.

This can also occur when there isnt much motion in the image and then everything would fix itself when it changes dramatically.

i dont know why it does this. could it be due to the nature of the filter?

[Undead Sega]

Okay everyone, this is what i mean:

Here is the first frame of the shot in YadMod, which is nicely filtered:

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff92/phantom_007/FilteredFrame.png

now becomes Unfiltered:

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff92/phantom_007/BecomesUnFiltered.png

as explained in previous posts, why does this happen?

I even did it with MCBob + NNEDI, and it does the exact same thing!

[scharfis_brain]

cause you were too over eager and set all options you found in the readme instead of just using defaults:


yadifmod(edeint=nnedi())



also be sure to set the correct fieldorder with assumetff() and assumebff() BEFORE yadifmod.

also provide a UNPROCESSED video sample.

[Undead Sega]

this is my script tha i used:

LoadPlugin("C:\Downloads\VirtualDubMod_1_5_10_2_b2542\yadifmod\yadifmod.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Downloads\VirtualDubMod_1_5_10_2_b2542\nnedi_v1.3\nnedi.dll")
AviSource("C:\Top Gear\TOP GEAR Series 10 Episode 2 quarterfinal.avi")
AssumeFPS(25)
AssumeTFF()
ConvertToYV12()
yadifmod(order=1,field=1,mode=0,edeint=nnedi,opt=0)
ConvertToRGB24()

and i didnt just add that in.

[scharfis_brain]

have you tried my suggestion?
provide a sample video, please.

[Undead Sega]

Here you go lad:

http://www.badongo.com/file/8635309

Enjoy :D

[Didée]

If that's an April's joke, then you're too late. The source is not interlaced. What you have there ALREADY HAS BEEN deinterlaced, and quite badly so. Read: That source is progressive, and the chunky look from the very poor deinterlacing is a fixed part of it.
Then, in the mentioned scene, the car is without motion. Since there's no motion, your deinterlacer decides to leave it as it is, nd you get the original chunkyness.

You can't "deinterlace" it, but you can interpolate. Try

Separatefields()
Merge( SelectEven().NNEDI(dh=true,field=0), SelectOdd.NNEDI(dh=true,field=1), 0.5)

[Undead Sega]

i see

If that's an April's joke, then you're too late. The source is not interlaced. What you have there ALREADY HAS BEEN deinterlaced, and quite badly so.

are youb refering to the pics of the video sample? none are April Fool jokes. maybe i need to provide a better sample with more motion to view the interlacing artifacts.

[Didée]

You asked why deinterlacers give strange results on some sections of your source. I told you the reason why it is so. period. There's no need for another sample. The 'problem' is perfectly obvious in the sample you gave.

If your source as a whole is generally interlaced, but some sections look like the posted sample, then you need to process those sections separately: Normal deinterlacing with Yadif-or-whatever-else-suits-you for the interlaced sections, and plain interpolation for the other ones.

[Undead Sega]

the strange result was the fact (from the example pics i provided) only the first frame got deinterlaced whereas the rest of that scene didnt, and this can occur to other scenes as well that are quite similar.

nothing is wrong with the sample, and it is certainly not a psot-processed sample.

also, from the code u provided, where about do i place that in my script? and would i need anything else to use that?