Strip audio tracks in PGCEdit

[tom942]

Hello,

Is it possible to strip audio tracks within PGCEdit?. Because I disable them (from "PGC Editor"), then I send it to fixvts, and they are still there.

I try to delete them from "Domain Stream Attributes" send them to fixvts, and the same, they are still there.

Am I doing something wrong, or should I strip first them with VobBlanker and later run PGCEdit?.

Regards.

[r0lZ]

FixVTS cannot strip audio tracks.

Maybe it's possible to use your method and then strip the streams from the VOBs with VobBlanker, but honestly, I haven't tried that yet.

IMO, it is easier to strip the tracks with VobBlanker or DVD Shrink before, and then fix the navigation if it's necessary, and remove the useless menu buttons with PgcEdit.

[Calimari]

I try to delete them from "Domain Stream Attributes" send them to fixvts, and the same, they are still there.
Regards.
They should be gone after using VobBlanker, as the VOB's get rebuilt entirely.

Stripping audio tracks with VobBlanker first and then changing the reference to them in PgcEdit, as rOLZ already said, is a solution. When you choose this method, it's best to remove other unwantend material first in PgcEdit (logo's, warnings, trailers, ...) then "clean" the DVD (the VOB's) with VobBlanker (including stripping audio tracks), and finally go back to PgcEdit to remove or change the references to the audio tracks. Hint: in PgcEdit, in the Tools section, you can setup VobBlanker to get launched by PgcEdit. Point to the VobBlanker.exe file and use "%p\VIDEO_TS.IFO" as argument. Also, enable "save DVD before launching application" and "reopen DVD in PgcEdit after application is closed".

Another solution is to use PgcEdit first to remove all unwanted stuff (including audio tracks), then copy the whole DVD with CloneDVD. CloneDVD also removes unreferenced material, including audio tracks left in the VOB's. If you don't like CloneDVD to transcode ("shrink") your DVD, you can set its target to DVD+/-R DL, which leaves the video information untouched. Then you can use the transcoder/encoder of your choice. I often do this, to finally re-encode my DVD with DVD Rebuilder. I discovered that DVD-RB doesn't remove unreferenced audio tracks from the VOB's, that's why I use CloneDVD first sometimes (VobBlanker doesn't support ILVU/multiple angles, CloneDVD does)
Clonedvd isn't free, though there is a 21-days trial available.

[r0lZ]

:goodpost:
Excellent tips, Calimari! BTW, do you know if DVD Shrink can be used to drop unreferenced streams like CloneDVD? If it works, that would be a free solution for multi-angle DVDs.

[tom942]

Thank you r0lz and Calimari for the help and tips (I hadn´t thought that CloneDVD could work as a "cleaner") :).

The doubt comes up when I read an old thread about what was better, if use first PGCEdit and later VobBlanker or the contrary.

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=118285

I try to delete them from "Domain Stream Attributes" send them to fixvts, and the same, they are still there.

But I prefer to use VobBlanker to strip the audio's because it doesn´t modify the IFO's (am I wrong?), and later, if it is not so difficult for me, try to remove the references in the IFO's and fix the necessary commands, or just disable them.

I mean, for instance:

0: English 6 ch
1: English 2 ch
2: Spanish 1 ch

If I remove stream 1, the navigation changes, and I can get crazy trying to fix it :).

Regards

Edit: r0lz was faster :D

[r0lZ]

Yes, VobBlanker is a good solution, but as stated above, it cannot be used on VTSs with multi-angle PGCs or interleaved cells.

Usually, I use PgcEdit first (with FixVTS) to blank out all useless PGCs and VTSs. Then, if there is still too much data for a DVD-5, I use MenuShrink, and then the DVDShrink plugin and DVDShrink to remove the useless tracks. (With some luck, you can use its handy Stream Remapping option, otherwise I remap the streams of the DVDShrink backup manually with PgcEdit.) I use also Shrink to reduce the size of the video streams when the space to regain is relatively small, or I use Rebuilder for a better quality.

[tom942]

@r0lZ

Do you know if jeanl could back to work on MenuShrink or FixVTS after the story about ripit4me or has he it forbbiden?

Will you release a 8.5.1 version with the workaround related to the TEMP dir thing?. I'm using at the moment 8.4 because of this :).

Regards.

[linx05]

I fear those two programs are dead for jeanl :(. The source(s) are out there, you just need to know how to program.

[Calimari]

BTW, do you know if DVD Shrink can be used to drop unreferenced streams like CloneDVD? If it works, that would be a free solution for multi-angle DVDs.

I didn't test that yet. I'll do it tonight and post the results here. I did a comparing test with VobBlanker, CloneDVD and DVD-RB. CloneDVD and DVD-RB both set to DVD9 of course.
I deleted an audio track in PgcEdit and let these three apps create a new DVD. VobBlanker and CloneDVD created a smaller size DVD (approx. the original size minus the size of that audio track) But DVD-RB didn't "shrink" the DVD, so the size of that deleted audio track (but still present in the VOB's) was taken in account.
I'll do the same test now with Shrink, CloneDVD and DVD-RB on a multi-angle disc.

I hadn´t thought that CloneDVD could work as a "cleaner":).


In its early days, it even had a checkbox in the preferences, to let the user decide if the unreferenced material had to be removed. Recent versions have this feature on by default, no more checkbox.


But I prefer to use VobBlanker to strip the audio's because it doesn´t modify the IFO's (am I wrong?),


Actually, it does rewrite the IFO's, according to what you did with the VOB's.

[r0lZ]

Will you release a 8.5.1 version with the workaround related to the TEMP dir thing?. I'm using at the moment 8.4 because of this :).I haven't fixed that yet. Sorry, currently I don't have much time for PgcEdit. Please wait...

[tom942]

Quote:
Originally Posted by tom942
But I prefer to use VobBlanker to strip the audio's because it doesn´t modify the IFO's (am I wrong?),

Actually, it does rewrite the IFO's, according to what you did with the VOB's

What I wanted to say is that it doesn´t remap or reorder the IFO's. If I remove the stream 1 as the example above, although it is removed from the VOB's, it is not removed from IFO's. It still shows the three streams, doesn´t it?

No problem r0lZ, when you can. BTW, you are doing a great app :)

[jeanl]

Do you know if jeanl could back to work on MenuShrink or FixVTS after the story about ripit4me or has he it forbbiden?
MenuShrink and FixVTS are over for me. Somebody else's ball to pick up :( (and :) )
jeanl

[blutach]

@tom942

This is a little bit detailed, but you can shift the streams up (in the PGC Editor) and adjust the SetSTN references in the commands.

For example:

Stream 0 = 0 0 0 0 (retained)
Stream 1 = 0 1 1 0 (stripped)
Stream 2 = 0 2 2 0 (retained)
becomes

Stream 0 = 0 0 0 0 (retained)
Stream 1 = 0 2 2 0 (retained)

If the SetSTNs in the PGCs are set directly, they are easy. Instead of "SetSTN, Set Subpicure 2, on", change it to Subpicture 1.

If they are set indirectly (via a gprm), it is more difficult, as you need to trace thru where the gprm is set and alter the command setting it. For example, a button may set gprm(13) to 2 and link to the post commands (or another PGC), where a SetSTN would copy gprm(13) to sprm(2), which is the sprm which holds the subpic number. This command would need to alter the 2 to a 1. Remember to catch all necessary changes.

It sounds more difficult than it is, actually. Give it a try.

Regards

[tom942]

Thank you blutach for confirming what I was doing by intuition :).

I did it yesterday with the DVD that I'm working on.

It even got registers to modify, but I could trace them and found which ones where related with the streams :).

Regards.

[Calimari]

BTW, do you know if DVD Shrink can be used to drop unreferenced streams like CloneDVD? If it works, that would be a free solution for multi-angle DVDs.

I did a little test with CloneDVD2, DVD-RB Free, DVD-RB Pro and DVD Shrink to see how they handle stripped audio tracks and unreferenced material. I compare the size of the result to the size of the original disc. The original has multiple angles and multiple languages (English, French and English director's comment)
Since VobBlanker doesn't handle multiple angles, I left it out.

Versions:
CloneDVD2 2.9.1.2
DVD-RB Free 0.98.2
DVD-RB Pro 1.26.5
DVD Shrink 3.2.0.15

Original disc: 7580 MB
Stripped audio: French (428 MB) and Director's comment (183 MB), together that's 611 MB
Blanked material: menu's (125 MB) and titles (60 MB), together that's 185 MB

First part of the test is strip the audio tracks out in PgcEdit, and process the result with our 4 programs. I disabled them in first place, but deleting them gave me the same result.
Now, this test is somewhat useless, as all 4 programs can strip audio themselves, so there's no need to use PgcEdit for it first. But, you never know if we see any strange results. I got these sizes:

CloneDVD2: 6970 MB (- 610 MB)
DVD RB FREE: 6989 MB (- 591 MB)
DVD RB PRO: 6970 MB (- 610 MB)
DVD Shrink: 6970 MB (- 610 MB)

I don't know why, but DVD-RB Free comes with an extra 19 MB. The other three were accurate and gave the same correct end result.

So far, so good. But since stripping audio is something that all 4 programs can do on their own, I did the same test with unreferenced cells. I blanked menu's (125 MB) and titles (60 MB), these sizes are chosen so it's easy to determine which content was handled. I used "kill Playback" to blank the content, which, I believe, adds an extra cell at the end of the PGC.
I got this:

CloneDVD2: 7389 MB (- 191 MB)
DVD RB FREE:7580 MB (- 0 MB)
DVD RB PRO menu encoding off: 7580 MB (- 0 MB)
DVD RB PRO menu encoding on: 7449 MB (- 131 MB)
DVD Shrink: 7575 MB (- 5 MB)

So it's already clear that only CloneDVD2 did an accurate cleaning of the unreferenced material. DVD-RB Pro with "menu encoding" enabled, seems to clean the unreferenced menu's but not the titles. The rest did nothing and left all unreferenced material in.

As the final stage of this test, I made the already blanked material really uncalled and deleted them in PgcEdit. I only used Shrink this time to answer rOLZ' question. I got this:

DVD Shrink: 7518 MB (- 62 MB)

So it seems like Shrink handled the unreferenced titles this time, but still left the menu material in (these still show up under "unreferenced").

Conclusion: No, I would not use Shrink to clean unreferenced material out of my disc.

[setarip_old]

@Calimari (An acceptable substitute for abalone ;>} )

Hi!

You might want to include DVD95Copy Pro in the type of comparative analysis you've performed...

[blutach]

It is well know DVD Shrink can not clean unreferenced material. All you can do with it, is "still image" and use a blank. I think the same is true of Ner0 Recode.

But blanking a cell is not making it unreferenced. You have to remove all references to it from the PGCs.

Regards

[r0lZ]

Nice tests, Calimari!

I'm not surprised by the result of the cells test. As blu said, Shrink is unable to remove the unreferenced cells (but it is possible to reduce the size dramatically if you compress them to still frames and remove the streams manually.) Anyway, when I need to remove unreferenced cells completely, I prefer to use FixVTS. It's the fastest solution, but it cannot remove the audio and subpic streams. So, I'm glad to hear that Shrink can do it. It is therefore possible to use PgcEdit first to make the unnecessary material unreferenced, modify the navigation, etc..., then a quick FixVTS pass followed by the final cleanup, the size reduction and in the same pass burn or create an ISO with Shrink, without having to go back to PgcEdit. Good news!

BTW, I have noticed recently something that I didn't know. When you reduce the size of a DVD with Shrink, if you still need some more place (for example to add a custom menu) you can demux all streams and remux them. The gain is not enormous, but significant, and sufficient in some cases. I guess it's because there are less nav packs in the remuxed VOBs.

[Calimari]

You might want to include DVD95Copy Pro in the type of comparative analysis you've performed...
I wouldn't mind doing that, but DVD95Copy is not free. And the trial is limited to process only 25 minutes of the main movie. So I'm not going to buy it only for doing this test. Maybe a registered user of DVD95Copy can do this?

It is well know DVD Shrink can not clean unreferenced material. All you can do with it, is "still image" and use a blank. I think the same is true of Ner0 Recode.

But blanking a cell is not making it unreferenced. You have to remove all references to it from the PGCs.

Regards
In the last part of my test, I made some (small) titles uncalled and deleted them in PgcEdit. This gave me a 62 MB gain, which was approximately the size of the deleted titles. I repeated this test on a disc with two main movies. Total size is 7891 MB, title 1 is 3918 MB and title 2 is 3966 MB. I did 3 tests:
1) make title 1 totally uncalled and delete it
2) blank 4 cells in title 1
3) delete the same 4 cells in title 1.
All was done in PgcEdit, started from the same "fresh" folder, then processed with Shrink in full mode. The results are:

1) title 1 deleted: 3973 MB (- 3918 MB)
2) title 1 cells 1-4 blanked: 7891 MB (- 0 MB)
3) title 1 cells 1-4 deleted: 7891 MB (- 0 MB)

So, deleting a whole title is safe. Shrink will eject all cells of it. But, unfortunately, it doesn't go down to the cells level to determine which cells to keep in case of a "partial deletion".
So, the final conclusion would be: Shrink can clean unreferenced audio/subtitle tracks and entire titles. But it won't clean unreferenced cells.

It is therefore possible to use PgcEdit first to make the unnecessary material unreferenced, modify the navigation, etc..., then a quick FixVTS pass followed by the final cleanup, the size reduction and in the same pass burn or create an ISO with Shrink, without having to go back to PgcEdit. Good news!

Yes! First, I wasn't sure what you ment with "drop unreferenced streams", since Shrink can deselect these streams itself. Of course, you mean drop streams that were deleted in PgcEdit, so Shrink wouldn't even have them in its compressions settings window anymore. My test proves that this can be done in Shrink. So the combination FixVTS/DVD Shrink can perform, in a complementary way, a full angle/ILVU compliant cleanup.


When you reduce the size of a DVD with Shrink, if you still need some more place (for example to add a custom menu) you can demux all streams and remux them. The gain is not enormous, but significant, and sufficient in some cases. I guess it's because there are less nav packs in the remuxed VOBs.
Interesting, thanks for this tip.

[r0lZ]

Yes! First, I wasn't sure what you ment with "drop unreferenced streams", since Shrink can deselect these streams itself. Of course, you mean drop streams that were deleted in PgcEdit, so Shrink wouldn't even have them in its compressions settings window anymore. My test proves that this can be done in Shrink. So the combination FixVTS/DVD Shrink can perform, in a complementary way, a full angle/ILVU compliant cleanup.Yes, it's exactly what I mean.

Until now, when the Stream Remapping option of Shrink cannot be used due to indirect SetSTN commands, my workflow included a pass with Shrink or VobBlanker to remove the useless streams, and then the stream remapping was made manually in PgcEdit. Your test proves that the order of those steps can be inverted. I was too lazy to check that myself! ;-) Thanks again!

[tom942]

So in summary the workflow would be:

1. PGCEdit to blank, mark unreferenced pgc or cells and disable or delete audio - subs streams, saving this changes just in the IFO's.

2. FixVTS for removing them from the VOB's, except the stripped audio and subs.

3. And open later in DVDShrink to remove from the VOB's the stripped audio and subs.

This way, will we have cleaned the DVD in a free way, or do I undestand it in the wrong way?. I mean if I've got to use before DVDShrink and later FixVTS

Regards :).

[Calimari]

@tom942

Exactly. I would use Shrink as the last step because it can "export" (shrink, burn, tot dvd folders...) your disc.