MKB V4 and BD+ [Archive] - Page 2

JeffAlso

13th October 2007, 02:44

it is quite strange, where are all the original crackers of AACS, i don't see any of them posting here no more, have they all retired or something?
My guess is they're working on it in private. Be patient.

ATARI Vampire

13th October 2007, 08:43

My guess is they're working on it in private. Be patient.

Some of us are working on MKB v4 right now. Trying to beat SlySoft to the punch. :devil:

Wombler

13th October 2007, 16:59

Some of us are working on MKB v4 right now. Trying to beat SlySoft to the punch. :devil:

Now that would be impressive! :)

Wombler

Turtleggjp

14th October 2007, 02:37

I have a question about MKBv4.

Around the time that MKBv3 came out, it was known that just like the time before, a single processing key would open the whole thing up again, which in fact it did. Is it known this time whether or not a single processing key will be enough to open up MKBv4?

I know that Atari Vampire was able to discover a lot of (if not all) the additional device keys and processing keys that were revoked the first time around (the 09 F9 processing key) which I'm sure took quite a while. Is this what needs to be done this time around with MKBv4? If so, that would certainly explain why it is taking longer this time...

Matt

Shinigami-Sama

16th October 2007, 05:10

it is quite strange, where are all the original crackers of AACS, i don't see any of them posting here no more, have they all retired or something?

prolly changed names and spilt personalities to help not get a visit from the black hats

mjrweed

18th October 2007, 15:54

they are probably working on cracking it :)

dchard

22nd October 2007, 16:03

bcrabl

23rd October 2007, 00:04

I enjoy to see a sticky topic about BD+, like "Understanding AACS".

There we can share knowledge, understanding what it is, how it works, and we can group the whitepapers, and other specs. already known.

Dchard

Well the biggest problem is that such info is scarce and our knowledge is very limited (due to secrecy from the developers of BD+)

greath

23rd October 2007, 13:29

Yes, the AACS specifications are open so were subject to scrutiny from peers. BD+ is closed. So they took a risk through keeping the specification secret and not open for peer review that they've left a gaping hole in it versus trying to limit knowledge to the hacker groups.

honai

23rd October 2007, 16:08

dchard

23rd October 2007, 16:29

Okey, I got the point.

So what we have now is just reverse engineering?

Dchard

captain_video

24th October 2007, 01:32

The problem of BD+ and the company behind it is that in order to reach critical market penetration for Blu-ray they have to be quite liberal when disclosing the whitepapers to interested clients, i.e. in the end the full spec will be available to 1000s of small clients.

For them it is necessary that *all* partners keep the secret, for "us" it's sufficient that only *one* becomes a traitor.
I'd like to think of them having the public's interest at heart rather than big business. I believe Hero is a term that more aptly applies here.

woah!

24th October 2007, 01:53

seems this v4 is more involved as its quiet on all fronts now... looks like i am going back to dvd purchases as of now...

my A2 is great for upconverting so no loss really...

bob0r

24th October 2007, 06:34

Best comment ever. :stupid:

d0ORk

24th October 2007, 18:02

Also a problem with Die Hard 4.0 BluRay

chenhua

24th October 2007, 20:14

seems this v4 is more involved as its quiet on all fronts now... looks like i am going back to dvd purchases as of now...

my A2 is great for upconverting so no loss really...

Anydvd 6.1.8.6 beta breaks mkbv4. :)

Thunderbolt8

24th October 2007, 20:17

no, not yet

chenhua

24th October 2007, 20:17

The problem of BD+ and the company behind it is that in order to reach critical market penetration for Blu-ray they have to be quite liberal when disclosing the whitepapers to interested clients, i.e. in the end the full spec will be available to 1000s of small clients.

For them it is necessary that *all* partners keep the secret, for "us" it's sufficient that only *one* becomes a traitor.

bd+ not depends on secrecy. Player has vm so no secret. Program on disc is secret and makes security. But program made by studio and different for all disc. More work for slysoft so maybe they charge more soon. :(

d0ORk

24th October 2007, 20:50

Anydvd 6.1.8.6 beta breaks mkbv4. :)

but not Die Hard V4.0 :o

Conquerist

24th October 2007, 23:45

Anydvd 6.1.8.6 beta breaks mkbv4.

SlySoft hasn't fully cracked mkb v4. From reading their forums, it looks like they've "cracked" Evan Almighty, but not Transformers.

So they probably found some specific key for Evan Almighty, because if they had truly broken mkb v4 (found a processing key or exploitable bug), Transformers would work too.

See http://forum.slysoft.com/showthread.php?t=8883.

SamuriHL

25th October 2007, 00:05

Give it time. According to the forum they're apparently working on it.

Shinigami-Sama

25th October 2007, 00:46

every new key we find just makes finding the next one easier though
even if we get one or two MKB's behind we're not loosing much more than a few month of waiting to be able to rip the discs
I normally don't buy them till I see them in the 5-15$ bargain bin anyways, and I know a lot of other people like that

chenhua

25th October 2007, 18:42

SlySoft hasn't fully cracked mkb v4. From reading their forums, it looks like they've "cracked" Evan Almighty, but not Transformers.

So they probably found some specific key for Evan Almighty, because if they had truly broken mkb v4 (found a processing key or exploitable bug), Transformers would work too.

See http://forum.slysoft.com/showthread.php?t=8883.

Sorry I was mistake. I see Evan Almighty and think mkbv4 is it. Maybe slysoft have Processing Key and never release. Just update Title Key to avoid revocation! :devil:

bcrabl

25th October 2007, 18:49

Sorry I was mistake. I see Evan Almighty and think mkbv4 is it. Maybe slysoft have Processing Key and never release. Just update Title Key to avoid revocation! :devil:

They will just revoce all the keys to be sure.:confused:

zeroprobe

25th October 2007, 21:59

You would think they would revoke the main PC players like powerdvd and windvd everytime as a precaution as they would be the most vunerable.

JeffAlso

26th October 2007, 05:05

You would think they would revoke the main PC players like powerdvd and windvd everytime as a precaution as they would be the most vunerable.

September 7, 2007 – AACS LA Announces Commencement of “Proactive Renewal”

AACS LA announces that it has started periodic “proactive renewals”, which, primarily for software player applications, provide for periodic renewal and refreshing of AACS encryption keys by licensed manufacturers and eventual expiration of old keys by AACS LA. This helps maintain the AACS technology as a vital means of distributing valuable high definition content to consumers. Consumers should expect that updates/patches will be periodically offered by their software manufacturer in order to ensure that the players continue to function as intended. The upgrading of software is a common practice in the software industry. Pursuant to the AACS technology licenses, manufacturers of software players are required to perform such updates in a consumer-friendly fashion.

chenhua

27th October 2007, 18:52

September 7, 2007 – AACS LA Announces Commencement of “Proactive Renewal”

AACS LA announces that it has started periodic “proactive renewals”, which, primarily for software player applications, provide for periodic renewal and refreshing of AACS encryption keys by licensed manufacturers and eventual expiration of old keys by AACS LA. This helps maintain the AACS technology as a vital means of distributing valuable high definition content to consumers. Consumers should expect that updates/patches will be periodically offered by their software manufacturer in order to ensure that the players continue to function as intended. The upgrading of software is a common practice in the software industry. Pursuant to the AACS technology licenses, manufacturers of software players are required to perform such updates in a consumer-friendly fashion.

It do not say time to revoke. But it is more than 90 days. So we have until 7/12 before key gone. :p

oddball

28th October 2007, 10:25

Transformers HDDVD is already up on a certain site. Also from what people have been able to gather AnyDVD is now using the oracle approach to crack the discs.

Peer van Heuen

28th October 2007, 11:12

Also from what people have been able to gather AnyDVD is now using the oracle approach to crack the discs.

That has been mentioned somewhere, but is incorrect (it was a guess of one of our forum members).
Our approach to MKB4 is somewhat different but that has not much to do with the actual processing of discs or calculating keys, there are other reasons for that.

markrb

28th October 2007, 19:45

deets

28th October 2007, 19:49

ironically, im now far more likely to invest in an HD DVD player because of this fact!

Wombler

28th October 2007, 21:22

According to Slysoft they Have broken MKB4.

http://forum.slysoft.com/showthread.php?t=8982

We have broken MKBv4. Please be so kind to submit AnyDVD_Info ... files for all BD or HD DVD discs where AnyDVD HD issues an AACS error.

YEAH for the good guys. Now onto BD+

Mark

That's only for certain discs.

Hence the request for details of discs that AnyDVD can't cope with.

If you read the updates they state that full support will be included in a future release.

Wombler

bcrabl

28th October 2007, 22:00

That's only for certain discs.

Hence the request for details of discs that AnyDVD can't cope with.

If you read the updates they state that full support will be included in a future release.

Wombler

Can somebody with AACS knowledge tell us what this means. They gather some info from the disk but they are not oracles...:confused::confused:

arctor

28th October 2007, 22:47

This is good. I wonder if anybody has been able to look at the a decrypted disk that has BD+. I rekaise that it shouldn't be playable but would like to know if raw video/audio files have been changed (one expects them to be altered somewhat ready for the BD+ Program to change them back during playback.)

bcrabl

28th October 2007, 23:25

No, this means that all non BD+ titles, where people have posted AnyDVD_Info files, are working.
(Here is your personal cracking service speaking )
BD+ discs will now be AACS decrypted, too, so everyone who want to take a look how BD+ works can do so now (greetings to Arnezami & Co.)

thats what james said.

Galileo2000

29th October 2007, 05:16

Essentially SlySoft managed to crack mkb v4 and they are going to break BD+ once and for all pretty soon.

According to them BD+ is nothing more than security by obscurity.

As far as I understand, once they break one BD+ they are able to break all of them.

Good time for all on the Fair Use side.

Bad time for all the account reps who spent millions of $$$ on the "good-for-nothing" schemes.

markrb

29th October 2007, 11:17

That's only for certain discs.

Hence the request for details of discs that AnyDVD can't cope with.

If you read the updates they state that full support will be included in a future release.

Wombler

Look at their forum. There is a section for people having problems with the latest version. Not a single reply for HD-DVD. I would say it was definately cracked. Just like before they will need to update for individual discs on occasion, but that has been the case for awhile now.

Mark

Wombler

29th October 2007, 11:46

Look at their forum. There is a section for people having problems with the latest version. Not a single reply for HD-DVD. I would say it was definately cracked. Just like before they will need to update for individual discs on occasion, but that has been the case for awhile now.

Mark

I believe they're very very close to fully breaking it but according to SlySoft's list of updates they themselves reckon they're not quite there yet.

The latest version released only yesterday (6.1.9.3) still says that they've added support for "some popular MKBv4 discs" but it also states "Note: Support for all MKBv4 discs will be added in a future release"

I'd assume SlySoft know where they're at. :)

Wombler

KenD00

29th October 2007, 16:20

To give all that speculation about what SylSoft can do with MKBv4 and can't a more technical note i add the following: i think currently they are in the BackupHDDVD era, they know how to get the VUK from a title (hence the request for the info files) and are moving on to the aacskeys era (finding a processing key, maybe device keys).

:rolleyes:

Turtleggjp

29th October 2007, 17:02

If they are in the BackupHDDVD era, then wouldn't they need an entire disc for a player to play, and not just the MKB info from a disc? Sounds to me like they have a processing key (and host private key) so they can get the VUK using only the MKB from a disc.

gioowe

29th October 2007, 21:27

According to James from SlySoft (http://forum.slysoft.com/showpost.php?p=61842&postcount=26) they have a processing key for MKBv4. They just don't want to leak it by releasíng a software that contains it.

Thunderbolt8

29th October 2007, 21:38

"We already found a way to crack BD+ and we have just turned to fine-tuning. I should really think about hiring a bodyguard now, since this product won't please everybody."

http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/News/Details.aspx?NewsId=21709

SamuriHL

29th October 2007, 22:23

Gotta hand it to those Slysoft boys and girls....they sure do know their stuff. :)

vio_man

29th October 2007, 23:43

bcrabl

29th October 2007, 23:46

http://forum.slysoft.com/showpost.php?p=61738&postcount=11

They've gone Oracle.

SamuriHL

30th October 2007, 00:33

Also James said that they've really cracked MKB v4 but right now only titles with submitted logs are working, because they need to integrate their "universal" MKB v4 decrypter into AnyDVD HD. Once they integrate it all titles will be decrypted. And as many of you said, BD+ will be cracked shortly, James said probably by the end of the year.

That's not exactly what they said. They said they are going to allow AnyDVD HD to communicate with their server for any new titles that it doesn't have keys for and will discover the key from the information sent to the Slysoft server, and send back a key for that title. The MKBv4 cracking code will not be integrated into AnyDVD HD directly. Each new version will come with an upgrade list of titles that it can decrypt. However, as I said, when a new one is encountered it'll be decrypted for you by the server.

vio_man

30th October 2007, 00:38

You're right. I misunderstood.

JeffAlso

30th October 2007, 01:26

This brings up an interesting question - if the Device/Processing keys used aren't incorporated into the client software itself, is there any reason to believe that they were originally extracted from a software player?

It would make more sense to extract the keys from a hardware player, which is much less likely to have it's keys revoked by AACS LA. They would have to read the Key Conversion Data from the lead-in, presumably using a XBox drive or other modified hardware in order to get the Volume Unique Keys for the individual disks. This may explain why this one took a little longer than previous MKBs.

If this is the case, then not only does it become more difficult for AACS LA to identify the leaked key, but when they do they have to face the problem of potentially revoking the keys in ten of thousands of hardware players.

tjf

30th October 2007, 08:04

It would make more sense to extract the keys from a hardware player, which is much less likely to have it's keys revoked by AACS LA. They would have to read the Key Conversion Data from the lead-in, presumably using a XBox drive or other modified hardware in order to get the Volume Unique Keys for the individual disks. This may explain why this one took a little longer than previous MKBs.

Remember, they now plan to use the oracle approach. It is supposed to work for all the new MKB 4 discs. So they cannot use standalone keys, because AnyDVD HD cannot read KCD and send it to the oracle. What you are saying is that they would have to buy all the MKB 4 discs and read the KCD from them and feed the oracle, which is not realistic.

The question is if the new oracle approach will force AACS LA to use sequence keys to find out which software player was compromised. My opinion is that they do not care, they revoke all three of them anyway, but will the software vendors try to obfuscate the keys more if they are not sure it was their application that was hacked?

bcrabl

30th October 2007, 09:21

Thet went oracle because they don't want open source community to crack anydvd and find the device/proseccing keys. That is the only reason. The AACS LA will just revoce all the keys for software players next december.