Digital Tv Tuner ?

[red_rage]

Hello,

I would like some information on getting a new Tv tuner card. I have recently subscribed to a digital service via a dish. My current tuner (compro PVR gold plus 2) gives me the image (in composite) but i am just not able to get the sound. My motherboard (intel 965) does not have an internal sound plug to connect the tuner's internal patch to. As a result I am not able to record any programs as the sound doesnt come through the tuner.

I will be interested in shifting to a new tuner provided it provides high resolution recording (preferably with decoding hardware) and has a video and audio pin. I am willing to spend around 150 $. Please help.

[burfadel]

The Leadtek DTV1000 is a good, value for money TV tuner card. It has the sound through PCI so there's no issues in that regard. It also has a hardware Mpeg2 encoder so when recording (in silent mode), it uses almost no CPU. You can also run 2 in one computer for a dual tuner system. Its still much cheaper than using a twin tuner card! I just bought my second one for $70AUS.

[red_rage]

Thanx for the reply. Does it allow direct xvid/divx encoding?

[Adub]

http://www.leadtek.com/eng/tv_tuner/overview.asp?lineid=6&pronameid=220

[burfadel]

For normal TV recording it doesn't allow encoding direct to Xvid/Divx (without using a third party programme). If its a space issue for each recording then a much more expensive card may be more suitable, if its for storage you can always re-encode and edit it as its encoded with a high bitrate Mpeg2 so you don't lose quality.

[red_rage]

I would prefer direct encoding to xvid. The tuner software doesnt allow that?

[Adub]

not "directly" as you stated it. You need a "3rd party" application to do it, according to the spec.

Just out of curiosity, do you guys recommend any other video capture cards, as I am kind of interested in one myself. Keep in mind I am a poor college student so just a device with some good strong hardware basics is necessary. Nothing too flashy.

Not that there is anything wrong with this card, I just wondered if there might be others.

[burfadel]

This card is the cheapest quality digital one, and it has quite good signal strength etc. There are others around its price tag but their support lacks and they may require internal audio cables etc.

http://www.staticice.com.au/cgi-bin/search.cgi?q=dtv1000

Some prices in Australian dollars for the dtv1000.

[red_rage]

by "3rd party" you do mean the software provided with the tuner, right?

If thats the case, then its acceptable.Please excuse me for my ignorance

[burfadel]

3rd party meaning additional software, not that which comes with the card :) The card has a hardware Mpeg2 Encoder on the card itself, I guess they prefer you using that because in silent record mode (which can be selected through the scheduler or by right hand clicking on the record button) the recording uses almost no cpu. If it encoded directly to Xvid the CPU use would be quite high, depending on the settings. This card can run record quite well on older computers because of the onboard encoding chip. Software that encodes directly to XVID would require a lot more memory, and may affect the operation of the computer when recording.

With the winfast PVR2 software, if you right hand click on the programme you can select 'high priority'. The Winfast software is also great at handling slow disk access if you're copying etc on the drive, it doesn't seem to affect the file on disk!

[foxyshadis]

Bah, any modern computer can encode xvid as well as it can encode mpeg-1, practically. I get between 40 and 200 fps on SD material, depending on settings, and this isn't even top of the line anymore. The issue is more whether it can give any real quality boost over mpeg-2 at a high enough bitrate. (I would never record directly to a low-bitrate, without 2-pass and advanced features. For anyone that does, mpeg-4 would be an enormous boost.)

So can DTV1000 use VFW, then, or is it their own mpeg-4 encoder?

[red_rage]

I would prefer the direct encoding. I have a core 2 duo processor with 2 gb ram. So CPU performance isnt that big an issue for me. Any other options?

[salehin]

Possibly you'll not get a tv capture card with direct xvid encoding is because different source material requires different settings in terms of filter, bit rates, custom matrix etc.

And even if someone offers such a thing it will be an utter tripe

[red_rage]

My compro PVR (current) gave me the option to encode directly with xvid or divx filters in addition to mpeg formats with very good results. I am just having this audio problem or else would have stuck with it.

Heres a link

http://www.mvktech.net/content/view/3671/39/

[burfadel]

It can use xvid filters etc, but only for video capture mode and not TV record mode. The quality of the Mpeg2 encode is very high, its superior to other cards and doesn't block or other issues that you usually see with some tv cards encoders. You can't do a two pass encode on live recordings, you'd have to use a CBR/quantiser mode for Xvid etc.

BIG THING:
I'd like to point out programmes like PVAInstrumento and Projectx that are specifically designed for TV capture... anyways I don't see the problem with 3gb/hr for SD tv recording, more for HDTV of course, especially with the quality of the encode. I've seen movies on tv that I've recorded that come out in better quality than the true DVD releases, a higher bitrate would serve absolutely no purpose.

If you want it in Xvid, you can easily run it over the encode programme, and it gives you the chance to cut out ads etc. The final encode would be better than encoding twice to XVID anyway!

Now for CPU use, my point was pertaining to the CPU use of the encoding, the cpu use of other programmes used at the time and its affect on the encoding. You can literally use the computer as normal, and yes that does include playing Far Cry etc etc :) when its recording. The game does not interfere with the encoding, and vice versa.

You can use other encoding software, the default is the Leadtek DTV which uses the tuner cards mpeg2 encoder. You can also use Purevideo, but that isn't as good in this situation - I've tried it. Purevideo is only good on cards that don't have the hardware encoder.

Anyways, its personal preference in the end. I just suggested that card as its cheap, is high quality, has its own mpeg2 encoder on chip that encode to high quality DVD level, it needs no audio cables, its got an rf bypass (so you can plug it into another tv set or whatever from the card), a proper remote control, reliable software, and is fully XP & Vista, 32 & 64 bit compatible.

There's some new models too, that are more expensive, but they use the same software. They are basically a combined digital/analogue tuner. The cheapest of which is about $20 more than the dtv1000.

If you really want to encode directly to xvid, I believe you can buy third party software, but that takes the cheapness factor away from it. I have seen cards than can do it in the default software, but they cost over $100 more and the encode quality was quite bad in comparison.

[salehin]

I intend to buy Technotrend S2-3200 HDTV-S2 incl. remote (MPEG2/4) (http://www.dvbshop.net/product_info.php/info/p145_Technotrend-S2-3200-HDTV-S2-incl--remote--MPEG2-4-.html)- probably the best long term option

[burfadel]

Looks ok :) but doesn't have a hardware encoder and by the looks of it when recording it records in Mpeg2 anyways. The h.264 software would only be for editing afterwards. I guess it all depends on the features you want, but at the end of the day you won't find too many cards with supplied software that encodes to Xvid. It may sound good for sales but for a lot of people encoding real time in xvid isn't as efficient as real time in mpeg2 (especially if the encoding is done on card). If you're using real time xvid encoding you'd probably not want to do anything too processor/disk intensive on the computer. I just like the dtv1000 because it does encode to such a high quality, has no cpu use in silent mode, and even if you load the computer up where you think the encode wouldn't work, it does! and you can get it for as low as $50Aus here now... (although that is a cheap price). Leadtek's support for old models is also exceptional, a lot of cards drop support once the new models come out.

[red_rage]

Thanks Burfadel. Your really have been a lot of help. Only question, how long will it take for a H.264 encoding (via virtualdub i presume) after i get an hour of recorded MPEG 2

[burfadel]

I usually use Staxrip (only because I had problems with Megui at one stage)! I usually update it with the latest plugins etc, and latest CLI of x264. If you use virtualdub you can encode to x264 through ffdshow (ffdshow.info).

The time it take depends on the settings you use, and the speed of your computer. Its very easy to have the settings high enough that it encodes slower than real time even on the latest CPU's, which is one reason why its not appropriate as a direct output format - at least for now.

Probably around an hour?

[Adub]

It's really not good to encode to x264 with vfw, as you miss out on several encoding options, plus the avi container can be a little iffy sometimes with h.264 content.

The best thing to do is to use command line, so Staxrip, MeGUI, AutoMKV, RipBot, you name it, pick your favorite.


Edit:
Also, should I be looking for a digital tuner, analog, or hybrid? My source will be the jack in right next to my head in my dorm room. I do believe it is cable. Unfortunately, I am not up on my capturing info, so I don't know if analog is only the radio wave broadcasted television, or if it encompasses cable and satellite as well. Meaning, are cable and satellite considered digital? Or are they analog?

[red_rage]

Do you have any ideas about hauppauge tv tuner cards?
I heard they are pretty good

[burfadel]

If you're in an area that all the analogue channels are on digital; (like in the cities and most regional areas of Australia now, digital will provide significant benefits, with superior picture and sound quality (its actual DVD quality).

In Australia, analogue tv in capital cities was going to be turned off on 1 Jan 2008 but this has been pushed back to 2010. In that case, an analogue tuner after that time would be absolutely useless. If you don't have all the channels on digital, a hybrid tuner would be the way to go. The best Value for money hybrid tuner card is the leadtek dtv1800, although there are other models coming out soon I believe. Either way its cheap, has support, and is a quality product. Its not the best card, but its by far the best card under $140 that I've seen (for the dtv1000 and dtv1800).

The other thing with digital TV is that is susceptible to interference. You don't see it as you do in analogue, but if the signal overwhelms the digital signal it will pixelate and even momentarily drop out. If the wall socket utilises poor quality cabling, or is split too many times & amplified (which also amplifies interference) digital TV may not work properly through it.

[burfadel]

Hauppage are pretty good, just make sure you get the correct model :) Dvico is another very good brand. It depends on what you're using it for, budget etc. The actual quality of recordings done with the digital versions of each are pretty much all the same, the difference comes in software features etc etc. Leadtek cards are great for the budget conscious, if you have around 3 times the money (or more) to spend the other brands such as Hauppage and Dvico may be the better choice :)

[Inventive Software]

Any recommendations at this time for an external TV tuner that supports: analogue, DVB-T, DVB-S and DVB-S2? Hauppauge had an internal tuner (the HVR-4000 according to my PC Format magazine that has the review) that was like the swiss army knife of format support, but I can't find one similar that's external, for my laptop.

[red_rage]

Any recommendations at this time for an external TV tuner that supports: analogue, DVB-T, DVB-S and DVB-S2? Hauppauge had an internal tuner (the HVR-4000 according to my PC Format magazine that has the review) that was like the swiss army knife of format support, but I can't find one similar that's external, for my laptop.

You may see this. This has got rave reviews, just a tad on the expensive side

http://www.plextor.com/ENGLISH/products/TV402U.htm

[Jeffster]

I may be completely wrong here since I know very little about digital TV, it's just in it's infancy here in my country, but the original poster said he is receiving his digital signal from a dish... doesn't that imply it's a satellite service?

If so, wouldn't the recommendation of the DTV1000 etc not be suitable since they are for a terrestrial service?

If that's the case perhaps the Hauppauge NOVA-S-Plus or NOVA-HD-S2 may be a possibility?

Anyway, as stated, my understanding is still very limited on these things, so if I'm totally off-base here please ignore this post... :)

[mr soft]

I bought a Club 3D ZAP-TV2202 hybrid card

http://www.ciao.co.uk/Club_3D_ZAP_TV2202__6608959

I picked it up for about 80 euros and have not looked back.
It´s got the usual time shifting , pause live TV.
Also good for recording those old vhs tapes.

Worth checking out anyhow. :)

[burfadel]

I may be completely wrong here since I know very little about digital TV, it's just in it's infancy here in my country, but the original poster said he is receiving his digital signal from a dish... doesn't that imply it's a satellite service?

If so, wouldn't the recommendation of the DTV1000 etc not be suitable since they are for a terrestrial service?

If that's the case perhaps the Hauppauge NOVA-S-Plus or NOVA-HD-S2 may be a possibility?

Anyway, as stated, my understanding is still very limited on these things, so if I'm totally off-base here please ignore this post... :)

Ah! oops very true :) it sounds like he's just using the capture function on the card (that is, external box thats plugs in to the capture part and not the cable straight from the antenna), the information is still pertinent for others, but in this particular case it sounds like a dedicated capture card would be more ideal. They can be around $60 for a quite reasonable one (from what I've seen). Capture cards have a benefit over tv tuner cards as the picture quality is usually much higher. For sound, depending on the sound inputs on the back of the computer you may be able to use spdif (unlikely though) or use an rca to 3.5mm stereo patch cord and plug the audio directly into the line-in of the sound card at the back.

[red_rage]

Ah! oops very true :) it sounds like he's just using the capture function on the card (that is, external box thats plugs in to the capture part and not the cable straight from the antenna), the information is still pertinent for others, but in this particular case it sounds like a dedicated capture card would be more ideal. They can be around $60 for a quite reasonable one (from what I've seen). Capture cards have a benefit over tv tuner cards as the picture quality is usually much higher. For sound, depending on the sound inputs on the back of the computer you may be able to use spdif (unlikely though) or use an rca to 3.5mm stereo patch cord and plug the audio directly into the line-in of the sound card at the back.


A little confused now. You pointed me towards a capture card or a tuner card? And yes you are right, its not direct from an antenna. IT comes through the external box. And about the audio. Are you talking about the external cord from the Tuner out to the sound card in or the internal cord to the motherboard?

And please check the plextor link I put up. Its all I could ask for, just expensive.

[Surf]

red_rage,
Almost all tv tuner cards are also capture cards.

Your current card is good enough. It's just that you don't know how to use it yet...

At the back of your external DISH settop box is a pair of audio-out sockets colored in red and white, yes?

So, you need to buy a pair of red and white cables with connectors that are called RCA <<< the inventor.

Then you want to go to a dollar store and buy a connector with 2-RCA IN and 3.5MM male connector OUT.

The 3.5MM male connector you shove to your tuner card, tell the software you are using about it(the connection).

Additionally you may want to use S-video connection between the settop and the card for better signals...have fun!

[burfadel]

Yep Surf's right, but hopefully you can get a direct rca (red and white plug) cord to a 3.5mm male stereo jack, but either works fine.

[red_rage]

red_rage,
Almost all tv tuner cards are also capture cards.

Your current card is good enough. It's just that you don't know how to use it yet...

At the back of your external DISH settop box is a pair of audio-out sockets colored in red and white, yes?

So, you need to buy a pair of red and white cables with connectors that are called RCA <<< the inventor.

Then you want to go to a dollar store and buy a connector with 2-RCA IN and 3.5MM male connector OUT.

The 3.5MM male connector you shove to your tuner card, tell the software you are using about it(the connection).

Additionally you may want to use S-video connection between the settop and the card for better signals...have fun!

If you are referring to the 3 input on one side resulting in a RF output on the other side (standard cable output), then I have already tried it. I am still not getting results. If you have a specific connector, please let me know as my current one is not working. I will try to upload a screenshot as soon as possible.

Please can you elaborate on the S-video connection?

[red_rage]

Yep Surf's right, but hopefully you can get a direct rca (red and white plug) cord to a 3.5mm male stereo jack, but either works fine.

Yup tried that too. Didnt work

Please check this link to view the complete list of specifications of my current card along with screenshots. Maybe surf and you could guide me?

http://www.tbreak.com/reviews/printpage.php?id=395

[burfadel]

You need to go to this screen:
http://www.tbreak.com/reviews/fullimage.php?image=10141

Then select the correct audio device (line in). The other thing you need to do is load up the sound volume programme, and enable audio for line in and recording! Once that is done it should work fine :)