IMGBurn misleading warning

[setarip_old]

I recently used DVD2One to join the two sides of my "flipper" "Woodstock - 3 Days of Peace", in order to burn an uncompressed D/L backup.

After selecting "Build" mode to load it into IMGBurn, I was greeted by a message stating that there was no cell at which a layerbreak could be placed and that burning such a disc would definitely result in failure - and then asked if I wanted to continue anyway. I chose to burn the disc, since I couldn't (and still can't) understand how there couldn't be an acceptable layerbreak, at the very least, at the point of joining of the two sides.

After completing the burn, I tested the disc (Verbatim D/L DVD+R, of course), by playing it from start to finish in 5 different brands of standalone players, over the course of three days. It played perfectly on ALL 5 players!

Perhaps "Lightning UK!" can offer some clarification?

[r0lZ]

Not sure if it's the problem here, but don't forget that the size of a SL (or of a side of a flipper) is greater than the size of a layer of a DL. If one side of your flipper is (almost) full, it is possible that ImgBurn cannot find a cell for the layer break.

Another point to take into account is the size of the file system area and of the header. This size depends of the file systems used, of the number of files and folders in the compilation, and of the burning application.

The fact that the DVD is playable in many players doesn't mean that it is legal, and that the LB has been set correctly, as most modern players can play the LB transition seamlessly anyway, even if it is in the middle of a cell.

BTW, I am interested to know what PgcEdit suggests in this case. (You don't need to create the ISO to check that.)

[blutach]

ImgBurn (www.imgburn.com) follows the rules completely (data on L0 > L1) and honours ECC boundaries (break on a sector divisible by 16).

As r0lZ says, a very full disk can cause this message. If so, I'd actually split the cell (using VobBlanker (http://jsoto.posunplugged.com/vobblanker.htm)) to ensure a good, legal LB.

Quite surprised that all the players play the DVD. I guess, as r0lZ says, the seamless LB is the reason.

Regards

[setarip_old]

@r0lZNot sure if it's the problem here, but don't forget that the size of a SL (or of a side of a flipper) is greater than the size of a layer of a DL. If one side of your flipper is (almost) full, it is possible that ImgBurn cannot find a cell for the layer break.I don't believe that's a problem in this instance, as Side 1 is 4.11Gb and Side 2 is 3.82Gb.

The fact that the DVD is playable in many players doesn't mean that it is legal, and that the LB has been set correctly, as most modern players can play the LB transition seamlessly anyway, even if it is in the middle of a cell.Just as a point of information, one of the players is 5 years old.

BTW, I am interested to know what PgcEdit suggests in this case. (You don't need to create the ISO to check that.)Although I have it installed on one of my systems, I'm not a frequent user of PgcEdit. Please describe, step by step, what you're asking me to do...

[r0lZ]

Load the DVD in PgcEdit, and select the Burn DVD icon in the toolbar. Then click on OK. (If the OK button is disabled, you have to go to the "Setup" menu of the burn window to configure some paths.) PgcEdit will then open a dialog with the possible layer break cells, or issue a warning of no suitable cell can be found. In the second case, right-click on the dialog to copy/paste its content here. Thanks!

BTW, I'm not sure if 4.11GB is too much for a layer, but if the space needed by the header and file system is relatively big, it's possible.

[setarip_old]

Can't find a suitable cell for the layer break!
Try to change the order of the titlesets with DVD - > Remap Titlesets, or remove some unnecessary material.

Note for expert users:
Given the minimal ISO file size (4143103 sectors) and the capacity of your DL DVD+R, the LB must be between absolute sectors 2056192 and 2086912 in the ISO.
The absolute starting sector of the VOB files of the Title domain of VTS 1 is 360.
The LB cell must begin between relative sectors 2055832 and 2086552 in that domain. Therefore, try to split cell 28 of VTST 1 , 1 TTN 1 (3:44:12) Title 1.

[r0lZ]

OK, then ImgBurn (and PgcEdit :)) is right, and side 1 is too long. The layer break is inside cell 28.

[setarip_old]

@r0lZ

Thanks for the interpretation of the technical aspects of this situation!

However, from a practical point of view, in light of the positive results I've obtained with regard to playback on multiple standalones of varying brands, models and, most importantly age, if I'm ever again confronted with such a situation, I'll feel comfortable in allowing IMGBurn to burn anyway ;>}

BTW - What is it that you folks keep saying NERO does improperly with regard to D/L burns?

[r0lZ]

It's your choice. But ImgBurn MUST warn the user in this case, as there is nothing more frustrating than seeing that a DVD that played on your old standalone cannot be played on the brand new player you have just bought. Even the "seamless LB" trick (setting the LB at the beginning of a cell but with the seamless flag set) is dangerous, although it is used by Superbit DVDs. Setting the LB in the middle of a cell is certainly the most illegal thing a burner could do.

I'm not sure Nero continues to be as bad as before, as I don't use it (except v6 to burn audio CDs only.) And you should have noticed that I don't blame it any more. But it has proved in the past that it did really a bad job with the placement of the LB. And anyway, I think that the user must have complete control on the location of the LB. Nero places it where it thinks it should be, but often that's not the best position, even if it's technically correct.
I must also add that I don't understand why we should pay for a program bundled in an enormous package full of useless tools when there is a free program that does the job perfectly, with a better interface and more useful options. I'm waiting for the new ImgBurn (with audio CD support) to get rid of Nero, forever.

[LIGHTNING UK!]

After selecting "Build" mode to load it into IMGBurn, I was greeted by a message stating that there was no cell at which a layerbreak could be placed and that burning such a disc would definitely result in failure - and then asked if I wanted to continue anyway.

Did you just make that up?!

What it says is that there are no cells that can be aligned correctly going by the DVD Video specs for burning onto double layer discs.

In a very sarcastic way, it then says that technically speaking, this is the end of the world.

Never does it mention it would definitely result in failure - neither in burning or in playback. If that's how YOU have interpreted it, that's all your own doing.

All it's going to have done is split the disc 50/50 without any regard for Cell alignment. It will still ensure L0 >= L1 and that the layer break LBA is a multiple of the ECC block size.

As r0lZ said, the program must issue these warnings, it would be wrong if it didn't. It's then the users problem if they decide to ignore the advice given and burn anyway - potentially creating a disc that won't play in all players. You're lucky in that yours do not seem to be very fussy.

[setarip_old]

As you know, the complete facetious verbiage in the notification is:Unable to find any cells that could be used for the layer break!

Now would be a good time to start crying, because technically, this is the end of the world.

Do you want to continue anyway?Yes, I certainly did interpret "crying" and "the end of the world" to be references to assured failure (as I'm fairly certain most people would) ;>}

All it's going to have done is split the disc 50/50 without any regard for Cell alignment. It will still ensure L0 >= L1 and that the layer break LBA is a multiple of the ECC block size.Thanks for this additional bit of information...

[r0lZ]

One more precision LUK!, please. Does it try also to put the LB at the beginning of a VOBU (on a navpack)?

[RickB]

Ah well at least us Brits understand sarcasm

Any way at least the Reds beat the Rent Boys

[LIGHTNING UK!]

r0lZ,

Not in build mode it doesn't, but it does if you're burning an ISO in write mode.

I was kinda hoping that people using Build mode would have a decent set of files where a real Cell would be available for positioning on the physical LB address.

Besides being too lazy to implement it, the logic behind my decision was something along the lines of it not being mega hard to manipulate VIDEO_TS files and correct the problem - that of course is not the case with an ISO. Also, the VOB scanning bit dates back to DVD Dec days when it didn't have the ability to align properly on a cell.

I may well tweak it so it (build mode) scans the vobs as it does in Write mode, but there's no time frame for that.

[r0lZ]

OK, thanks for the precision.

Note that you can probably trust the IFOs, and retrieve the VOBU LBAs from the VOBU_ADMAP tables. It's easy. I think that the compatibility could be a little bit better if the LB is at the beginning of a VOBU, when it cannot be at the beginning of a cell. But anyway I prefer to split the cell.

[blutach]

But anyway I prefer to split the cell.I would, too.

Regards