Microsoft Expression Encoder 1.0

[zambelli]

Coinciding with last week's Silverlight release was also the release of Expression Encoder, a new Microsoft encoder application targeted at encoding Windows Media content for Silverlight.

A list of new features (since the preview release) can be found on James Clarke's blog:
http://www.clarkezone.net/default.aspx?id=c7a6bb98-f42b-49b6-aeba-e061722d69b8

Main product page with full feature list:
http://www.microsoft.com/expression/products/overview.aspx?key=encoder

A 60-day trial version of the Expression Encoder can be downloaded from:
http://www.microsoft.com/expression/products/download.aspx?key=encoder

It's important to point out that this encoder application is not designed to be Windows Media Encoder 10, nor does it try to be. It's designed for a specific workflow that makes encoding media for Silverlight playback very easy and straightforward. Expression Encoder uses the same Windows Media Format codecs as WME9, so in terms of video quality/performance - the output is identical to that of WME9 on the same machine. Also, Expression Encoder only supports encoding video to VC-1 - in other words, only WMV9 (4cc: WMV3) and WMV9 Advanced Profile (4cc: WVC1) video codecs are supported, and not WMV7, WMV8 or any older Microsoft codecs.

One cool feature I particularly want to mention is native support for Avisynth scripts (.avs). The Expression team was very nice to add this after a few of us convinced them it would be "teh awesome" (and I believe beer was promised). I think that actually makes Expression Encoder the first Microsoft application to officially support Avisynth scripts. ;)

[zambelli]

You can also check out this video on Channel 9 where James Clarke talks about Expression Encoder:

http://channel9.msdn.com/showpost.aspx?postid=339887

[benwaggoner]

One cool feature I particularly want to mention is native support for Avisynth scripts (.avs). The Expression team was very nice to add this after a few of us convinced them it would be "teh awesome" (and I believe beer was promised). I think that actually makes Expression Encoder the first Microsoft application to officially support Avisynth scripts. ;)
That was pretty cool :).

Reading from QuickTime source files was also added.

[diogen]

I did a quick encode (25min, Bikini episode :))
Source: 1088/60i, 15Mbps, TS
Output: 720/60p, 6Mbps (HD preset)

Did a good job. Nice layout, crop options. Pause button. Not sensitive to splitter/decoder used.
Audio limitation to stereo is just plain awful (how can "stereo" even stay with "hidef" in one sentence :))

Diogen.

[Rash]

That's cool, but I am keeping the wmcmd, then. :) From what you said, it would be fully compatible with Expression encoded files, right?

http://channel9.msdn.com/showpost.aspx?postid=339887
LOL, click here to activate and use this control. :D

Is that Flash or Silverlight? I couldn't tell.

[zambelli]

That's cool, but I am keeping the wmcmd, then. :) From what you said, it would be fully compatible with Expression encoded files, right?
Correct. Both produce the same type of WMV9 (VC-1) output - the major difference is in the workflow.

LOL, click here to activate and use this control. :D
Is that Flash or Silverlight? I couldn't tell.
LOL - neither. I looked at the source HTML and it appears to be using the WMP ActiveX control. I'm sure they'll eventually switch to Silverlight - same functionality as WMP ActiveX, but better cross-platform support (Win and Mac today, Linux tomorrow).

[zambelli]

Did a good job. Nice layout, crop options. Pause button. Not sensitive to splitter/decoder used.
Audio limitation to stereo is just plain awful (how can "stereo" even stay with "hidef" in one sentence :))
I agree they did a good job with the UI design... As for stereo, keep in mind that this is designed for a Silverlight content authoring audience. Even 480p is still a pipe dream for most streaming, so 1080p video with 5.1 audio encoding aren't exactly the typical scenarios yet. :)

BTW, if you want to provide any direct feedback to the Expression Encoder team, their program manager James Clarke hosts a blog of his own here: http://www.clarkezone.net. James is a great guy and I'm sure he'd be more than happy to listen to any feedback and suggestions.

[Danisan]

Good stuff! Easy to use and nice features. I love the compare mode. They have some training videos on the site that's worth looking at.

http://www.microsoft.com/expression/kc/resources.aspx?product=encoder&type=video

[benwaggoner]

Good stuff! Easy to use and nice features. I love the compare mode. They have some training videos on the site that's worth looking at.

http://www.microsoft.com/expression/kc/resources.aspx?product=encoder&type=video
And yes, I'm that Ben Waggoner :).

Some info on the production process was here:

http://on10.net/admin/edit/18797/?SelectedTag=438

And yes, I'll be getting my hands on the source and reencoding to higher quality and embedding in Silverlight soon.

[Danisan]

Yes, those training vids are a good way to get started. You did a good job.

I've tried a few of the templates and it looks nice on a webpage. Will there be an option for turning off the autoPlay function in the encoder itself without having to edit the StartPlayer javascript file?

And since I'm a webpage n00b when will the publisher plug-in for silverlight.live.com be ready?

[benwaggoner]

Yes, those training vids are a good way to get started. You did a good job.
Thanks! This is actually my fourth tutorial along these lines - it's amazing how much our screen recording technology has improved!

I just got the 960x540 masters, and hope to have some updated reencodes in the next week or two.

I've tried a few of the templates and it looks nice on a webpage. Will there be an option for turning off the autoPlay function in the encoder itself without having to edit the StartPlayer javascript file?
Not that I know of. Want to make that a feature request?

And since I'm a webpage n00b when will the publisher plug-in for silverlight.live.com be ready?
It's in the "any day now" stage last I heard.

[Danisan]

Not that I know of. Want to make that a feature request?




Sure! Make it a feature request. Also would it be possible to add an option to keep the video to it's native size? The template player auto-resizes to fit the page. :thanks:

[benwaggoner]

Sure! Make it a feature request. Also would it be possible to add an option to keep the video to it's native size? The template player auto-resizes to fit the page. :thanks:
You can encode the .wmv at the source size by using "Source Profile." But it's Silverlight that is stretching to match window size.

It'd be a good idea to provide an option in the templates for non-scaling.

[diogen]

Want to make that a feature request?While on the feature request issue, can they maybe do something about the 2-channel audio limitation?

And some issues I run into playing with the encoder over about 1 week:
- When importing a video file and then removing it from the list, Encoder UI keeps running (Task Manager). Even after the app is closed. Always happens when opening a TS file. Rarely with MPEG.
- CBR encodings are off by about 10% in size (smaller). HD and SD. 2-pass VBR are good within 2% or better.
- 2-pass VBR projected time left to finish the job is meaningless.
- frame by frame forward only jumps between I-frames.
- opening T2 wmv file (1440x816) shows ~1.5 frames at once; no playback.

Diogen.

[benwaggoner]

While on the feature request issue, can they maybe do something about the 2-channel audio limitation?
Silverlight 1.0 only supports WMA, not WMA Pro, and so only goes up to stereo.

And some issues I run into playing with the encoder over about 1 week:
- When importing a video file and then removing it from the list, Encoder UI keeps running (Task Manager). Even after the app is closed. Always happens when opening a TS file. Rarely with MPEG.
Interesting. Can you share one of those .ts files, or at least some details on how it's formatted?
- CBR encodings are off by about 10% in size (smaller). HD and SD. 2-pass VBR are good within 2% or better.
It's pretty typical for CBR encodes to come in a little light if there are sections of low complexity where the codec can't use all the bits. Some things you can do to try and use those extra bits:

Raise quality/smoothness to 90 (lets frame QP go all the way down to 1)
Increase the buffer duration (8 seconds is good if you're streaming)
Use 2-pass CBR instead of 1-pass CBR

- 2-pass VBR projected time left to finish the job is meaningless.
Yeah, that's because we do things simpler in the analysis pass, so it's hard to extrapolate the encode pass from that. I'm not sure what the best way to present that info.
- frame by frame forward only jumps between I-frames.
You mean in the GUI?
- opening T2 wmv file (1440x816) shows ~1.5 frames at once; no playback.
DRM'ed? Also, I'm not sure what you mean about showing "1.5 frames at once"

[diogen]

Can you share one of those .ts files, or at least some details on how it's formatted?This happened to me with 3 movies: Gladiator, Hero, and Flying Daggers (all over 10GB). I think the first two 1920x1080/60i, the last 1280x1080/60i. Expression shows Hero as 29.97fps, the rest 23.976fps. When trying to cut a small piece out (VideReDo) - the problem goes away.
Haven't tried with others.

Actually when importing just one TS file and then closing the app - this hardly ever happens (once). But when you import more than one and then try to remove from the list inside the GUI - always happens. If you import 3, delete 2 and close the app, 2 instances of Expr GUI are running in Task manager; hard drive LED going mad.
... Increase the buffer duration (8 seconds is good if you're streaming)
I'm not streaming. Use a 50sec buffer. Will try the rest.
You mean in the GUI?Yes. Observed once: Perfume, 720/60p, ~14Mbps ABR, 2 B-frames, 14 frames GOP (IBBPBBPBBPBBPI), satellite hidef.
DRM'ed? Also, I'm not sure what you mean about showing "1.5 frames at once"DRM-less. 2 frames side by side, squeezed (square pixel, I guess) and then a 1920x816 cut out off those two frames. Will try a screenshot when get home.
I recall reading that DRM removal from T2 (as explained on AVS years ago) wasn't 100% clean - could be the reason.

Diogen.

[diogen]

The T2 picture.

Diogen.

[zambelli]

Diogen, what MPEG-2 decoder are you using? Expression is just building a DirectShow graph, so any problems with the decoded picture or framerate would be on the DirectShow decoding level.

[diogen]

NV PureVideo that come with TheaterTek 2.4

Actually, Expression and WME9 are different in this respect: I could never make WME9 work with NV PureVideo MPEG-2 decoder for hidef (it would bomb when applying settings) whereas Expression does work.

Diogen.

[zambelli]

Do the decoding issues appear in the final WMV transcode too, or are they exclusive to the video window? If it's just the latter, I would guess it's a DXVA/driver/rendering issue.

[diogen]

I don't have problems playing resulting WMV files most of the time (VideoReDo reports no errors).
It's just going frame by frame and comparing the original vs. encoded frame (split screen) that doesn't work for me.
And when muxing DD 5.1 with the Expression encoded video (Solveig) the seek times are atrocious.

I'll try Expression in Vista with its own MPEG decoder.

Diogen.

[cayblood]

I get a "couldn't locate a decompressor for ..." (can't read the rest) error when I try to use avisynth inside MS Expression Encoder, although it works fine with Media Player Classic and VirtualDub. Anyone seen this before?

I'm running Windows XP.

[zambelli]

You need a decoder installed which will handle YUY2 or YV12 video that Avisynth scripts commonly return. MPC and VDub handle these formats internally - they don't rely on DShow or VfW to handle them.

Ffdshow is your best bet. Install it and set the "Raw video" codec to handle "All YUV" in the VfW configuration.

[cayblood]

Thanks zambelli! I will try it and return and report.

[cayblood]

Thanks, Zambelli, it worked when I set up ffdshow as you suggested.

[Selur]

Does the Expression Encoder support 5.1 audio?
If yes, how to convert a 5.1 .ac3 to 5.1 wmv using the Expression Encoder? (only shows stereo in channel selection dropdown.-box :()
-> might be a problem with my system, since it seems I can't playback 5.1 wma files as 5.1 when not using WMP10 (doesn't even work through graphedit)

Cu Selur

[diogen]

Does the Expression Encoder support 5.1 audio?No.

Diogen.

[Selur]

No.
Thanks for the info. (at least now I know that I can save the time looking for a way how to get it working ;))

[zambelli]

Expression Encoder supports .prx profiles though, so if you put together a profile with WMA Pro 5.1 audio - Expression will encode.

The main reason why EE doesn't do 5.1 audio in v1 is because Silverlight doesn't support WMA Pro in v1 - so therefore it's not considered a primary usage scenario.

[zambelli]

Some interesting Expression Encoder and Silverlight related links:

180 Day Trial Key Available (http://www.microsoft.com/expression/products/download.aspx?key=encoder)

Silverlight Streaming Publishing Plug-in (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=382a3306-b212-4df3-af86-5d48be550b94)

Tutorial: Using Expression Encoder to publish to Silvelight Streaming and add to a blog post (http://blogs.msdn.com/silverlightmedia/)

[Danisan]

Hi!

If you're still accepting feature requests I'd like the option to not encode the audio (remove the audio). If this feature is in the software I haven't found it.

Thank you kindly.

[diogen]

A few days ago (Jan. 14) a newer version of the Expression encoder was posted for download.

Does it incorporate the latest VC-1 Professional SDK?
Will it use the named SDK if installed?

Diogen.

[benwaggoner]

A few days ago (Jan. 14) a newer version of the Expression encoder was posted for download.

Does it incorporate the latest VC-1 Professional SDK?
Will it use the named SDK if installed?

Not in that - it's just a minor point release. Support for the SDK will be incorporated into the next major version of Expression Encoder.

[diogen]

Thanks, Ben.
Any time frame? Weeks? Months?

Diogen.

[benwaggoner]

Thanks, Ben.
Any time frame? Weeks? Months?

Yeah, I'm not on that team, so I really should leave it up to them to announce schedules.

Might I drop the hint that it will offer a unqiuely groovy combination of timeliness and awesomeness :).