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View Full Version : 2 questions about choosing the proper software to create menus & re-author


i86time
6th September 2007, 00:25
1). How does one re-author a DVD without re-coding or transcoding the original files? I've tried multiple programs, and none work to my liking.

I have a 40 min. vid I recorded in XP/ PCM mode on a Panasonic standalone. I want to re-author a new disc that has this show, plus a 4 min clip (source DV->(firewire)->AVI->VOB (~8000 kbps VBR/ PCM). DVD Shrink, DVD Decrypter and Nero Recode all agree on the file size of the 40 min. video file. (Note: I had to use a program of this type because the disc it was on also had other short clips on it that I did not want to use and the standalone recorder put them all in the same VTS track). So I have two filesets, both of known size.

To author a new menu and get the files ready for burning, I've tried TMPGEnc DVD Author (both 1.6 and 3), Sony DVD Architect 3.0, DVD Lab and Nero Vision. The problem is, all insist on re-encoding the video in one form or another. Yes, even after reading the threads on TMPEG DVD Author and saying to use version 1.6, it still seems the files are being altered. The weird part is, though they produce different file sizes based on their encoders, all the programs reduce the size of the 40 min. video (by ~ 23 MB) and all increase the size of the short clip (how can data be added to a nearly full bitrate video?!?), though not by much.

Searching through the threads here, the re-coding by TMPGEnc DVDA 3 has been noted, but 1.6 is supposed to leave the files alone. Also, though Sony DVD Architect gives me warnings that the bitrate for the files may be too large to use on some players, it is set not to re-code them, yet it does anyway. The filesizes are not too large for the disc (< 4 GB total), so that can't be the reason. Although I can't say I see a difference in the video quality, I don't like the idea of these programs altering the files when they were already DVD compliant to begin with, and in some instances I told the program not to. One thing I did notice is that some programs stated that there were open GOP's on the video from the stand alone recorder, could that be a reason?

Basically, I just want to know if there are any software programs out there I can use to create a new menu without having to alter the original video files in any way?

As a test, I re-authored a dvd in Nero Vision, then simpy replaced the re-encoded VOB's with the original ones. The movies seemed to play fine when selected, but the 'Play All' button did not work.

2). I have several small full authored (menu's, etc.) DVD"s that I'd like to combine into one. Is there any program that allows the original menu from each fileset to be used, with a simple link (like an arrow (-->) or 'next') to be inserted onto the original menus that allows navigation from one to the next. I do not have any of the original components of the menu (background images or templates, etc.).

Thanks for any help.

kikatu
6th September 2007, 05:01
The 8000 Kbps video bitrate is ok, but the issue might be the PCM audio (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=129046&highlight=pcm+dvd) format. Quoting an older DVD-Lab Manual (it probably still applies):In special cases you may end up with audio content in the format of a PCM file (Pulse Code Modulation). While a WAV file is technically a PCM type file, this PCM format is not DVD-compliant or usable in most audio editors. This PCM file then needs to be converted to WAV format (use add WAV header). To accomplish this, DVD-lab provides a built-in PCM->WAV tool for your conversion convenience.To confirm this, demultiplex with DVD-Lab or PgcDemux, and finally try to add the video & audio. Also DVD-Lab tends to complain about Open GOPs (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=80294&highlight=open+gop), it may not be an issue (more info) (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=124223&highlight=dvd-lab+open+gop). Also for re-authoring menus, please follow this guide (http://forum.videohelp.com/topic313743.html) thanks to manono, and if needed you can merge (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=93428&highlight=merge+vob) video files. As for Nero Vision, sorry I haven't used the program.

Kind Regards

i86time
6th September 2007, 21:55
Hello,
Thanks for that quick reply and all the links. Yes, I did receive the message from DVD Lab that PCM was not compatible and had to be converted to a .wav, which I did. I also tried the DVD creation in 2 ways (I loaded the original .vob's without demuxing and also demuxed to .m2v and .wav elementary streams, as above). In both cases, it still altered the file sizes like all the other programs I've tried. Based on your links, I do believe that some programs are having problems with open GOP's, but I figured because a) I was not editing the files and b) I indicated the programs not re-encode the files (for those that had the option), that they should not have been re-encoded.

Also thank you for the links to those how-to's on changing menus, I hope to find an answer to my second question in those.

kikatu
7th September 2007, 03:30
The file size variations should be ok due to the audio transcoding output. AFAIK DVD-Lab doesn't re\encode VOBs or video elementary streams, but with the exception of making motion menus. Don't be concern about open GOPs, DVD-Lab even have an option not to display this warning, also other people have successfully authored projects containing open GOPs, it's just what DVD-Lab prefers.

There's a lot of useful information in this community, not to mention the helpful wisdom of Veteran Members/Enthusiasts, always credit where's due.

Kind Regards

i86time
10th September 2007, 06:54
Hello again,
Thanks for that final bit of info. I believe that you are corrent that DVD Lab does not re-encode, but I don't think that the file size difference I am seeing has anything to do with the audio transcoding. I figure that even if the PCM file is a larger size than the .wav file (is that even the case?), doesn't DVD Lab have to transcode it back to PCM when authoring the DVD? If so, it should still be the same file size as it was originally, as nothing has been changed. But that's not what I am seeing.

I'm still at a loss as to why there is a difference in file size. Can anyone here chime in and explain why I am seeing file size differences before and after the re-authoring, when I am not editing the original video at all?

kikatu
15th September 2007, 04:38
Assuming the frequency, bit samples are higher than a DVD compliant, it will reduce the file size. PCM is an uncompressed audio stream; WAV is an audio-media container holding the PCM steam. It shouldn’t be worrying, the WAV format will contain your lossless audio, furthermore encoding to a lossy compression format such as AC-3, will greatly reduce the file size. See also the Audio FAQ (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=68300#post424063”) and DVD-Lab Forum (http://www.mmbforums.com)

In any case make sure the audio is in sync and it doesn't contain added noise.

Kind Regards