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View Full Version : Some old mini DV tapes won't play back properly on new camcorder


2Bdecided
29th August 2007, 15:18
My old Sony mini DV camcorder died.

I've bought a Canon HV20.

The problem is that _some_ of my old DV tapes won't play properly on the Canon. Problems range from slight tiny few pixel drop outs, to the entire right 1/4 of the screen constantly dropping out and being replaced by the previous frame - with the audio dropping out almost constantly too. However, some tapes play without any visible problems
(even those with lots of panning and movement where it would be easy to spot).

I can find no pattern to the problems. SP or LP, Sony Panasonic or Matsui(!) tape, widescreen or 4x3, 1998 or 2007 - I have good and bad examples from each.

I'm wondering if it had something to do with using different brands of tape occasionally. In the reading I did before buying the HV20 I discovered this was a complete no-no. No one told me 9 years ago! I mainly used Sony Premium or Sony Colour Collection - and I'm wondering if problems appear on the recordings after using a Panasonic instead
(or, most recently, on recordings made after transferring some old Panasonic tapes onto PC).

The old camcorder had occasional problems on some of the recordings originally, which were always there when played back. Using a head cleaner once, and later giving up on LP in favour of SP, seemed to solve these for good on future recordings.

However, on the new camcorder, the tapes I had with a few problems are now disasters, but also very recent tapes with no previous problems are also disasters.


Has anyone experienced anything like this? I considered the old camcorder's heads could be out of alignment, but I have plenty of tapes recorded on there which play fine, so the "problem" can't have been permanent. I considered the HV20 could be picky or faulty, but a friend playing one of my recent "bad" tapes sees exactly the same problem. Yet I still have the AVI of that tape copied onto my PC using the old camcorder which is just fine.

I've phoned a camcorder repair specialist, who has offered to try to transfer the tapes while tweaking a deck for best playback, for £15 per tape. Alternatively, he believes he can "fix" my old deck for £110.

I'm going to give this a try, unless anyone has any other suggestions / advice?


Meanwhile, what I really want to know is how this happened in the first place! I suspect the old camcorder was "never quite right", maybe because I used different brands of tape, or maybe because of a manufacturing (or handling!) defect, but the problems are so intermittent.


Any advice gratefully received.

Cheers,
David.

IanB
3rd September 2007, 00:39
The problem sounds like signal drop out between the tape and the video heads.

The cheapest solution is to beg/borrow/steal/rent different DV decks from friends etc that can actually successfully play the affected tapes and strip them to your PC. Once you have extracted a good copy of the digital DV data you can transcode it back to new good quality tapes on your current deck and write the .avi files to another long term storage medium i.e. non-cheapo DVD, etc.

You may need to do multiple passes and assemble together good captures of various sections from different decks. DV is a frame exact format with the associated 40ms of audio bundled in each video frame. This can be tedious and very time consuming, the value of the tape contents should determine your level of effort.

If the memories are irreplacable "for £15 per tape" sounds like a bargain, if it's pay by results. ;)

Mug Funky
3rd September 2007, 05:56
are the bad ones recorded in LP rather than SP? because every make of camera (and different models too) has a different way of doing LP - there's no real standard, and hence a panasonic's LP will differ in tape speed to a sony LP tape.

you might be able to track down a similar brand/model and capture with them.

or i could be on the wrong track completely :)

but yeah... LP is a no-no unless you plan to capture off that same device immediately after shooting, and really need the extra 30 mins.

2Bdecided
11th September 2007, 13:07
Thanks for the replies.

I think my first action will be to have the old machine "fixed". The repairer is quite happy to just charge for postage if a fix is impossible, so there's little to lose (except the hope that it might work!)

It's not an LP only problem. Bizarrely, some of the LP tapes play fine, and some of the SP ones are awful. The opposite is also true, but it seems in this case SP vs LP is not an issue.

I'm not going to risk putting the non-Sony tapes into the HV20, but I intend to play a few seconds of _all_ my old Sony tapes and make a note of the problems. There must be some pattern to this!

It's funny - I back up my digital photos obsessively (and haven't yet lost any of the back ups!), but these miniDV tapes just sat on the shelf waiting for the day I could get around to doing something with them. I'd just started (~7 out of 80 tapes copied to PC), and then my old camcorder died! :(

Cheers,
David.

rfmmars
19th September 2007, 18:12
Its sad there is no hard standards between brands or even models of the same brand. This has been true for VHS,8mm, min DVDs, and DV. I thought Henry Ford solved this years ago. Fixing is the only answer.

Richard
photorecall.net

Mtz
23rd September 2007, 03:40
LP is a no-no unless you plan to capture off that same device immediately after shooting, and really need the extra 30 mins.
Why? I think the only difference between SP and LP is some part reserved for audio.

2B, try to avoid cheap Sony.

enjoy,
Mtz

JohnnyMalaria
23rd September 2007, 05:08
Why? I think the only difference between SP and LP is some part reserved for audio.


Digitally SP and LP are identical. The difference is purely physical - the tape runs slower for LP resulting in less area on the tape to record each section of data. LP mode is much less forgiving of head issues, poor tapes etc.