DirectX 10. Is it really so good?

[Sharktooth]

X-bit labs did a comparison of performance and graphical differencies between DX9 and DX10 games using various video cards. The final conclusion may not be what you could expect...

Read on: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/directx10-games.html

[Doobie]

Thanks for the post. I've been wondering if Bioshock looks noticeably better with Vista+DX10 than with XP+DX9.

[LoRd_MuldeR]

Haha, why this doesn't surprise me? ^^

BTW: Bioshock Demo runs fine (1280x960, Maximum Quality) on my DX9 Hardware (Radeon 1950XTX) and it looks amazing :)
The Rootkit shit, that came with the Demo is not so nice though :(

[Atak_Snajpera]

What kind of rootkit?

[LoRd_MuldeR]

What kind of rootkit?
Bioshock (Demo as well as Full Version) installs some kind of "rootkit" on your system, which is part of Sony's Securom protecion. It forbids you from using Processs Explorer and maybe other tools. The annoying thing is, that you cannot run Bioshock any more, even after the Process Explorer process is closed! Once you used Process Explorer, you need to reboot your computer before you can run Bioshock again. So obviously "something" is running in the background and watching me, ready to lock Bioshock as soon as I run one of the "blacklisted" applications. How else could they know that Process Explorer was running before? I checked for new processes running on my system: nothing! I checked for new services: nothing! I scanned the registry for "Securom": nothing! The "thing", whatever it is, seems to sit deeper in the system. And I'm not amused about that...

(But we are getting off topic here ^^)

[Atak_Snajpera]

Since when rootkits are legal? Installing hidden applications should be treated at the same level as viruses,trojans and so on. User must always be informed about that. For instance Colin: Dirt informs users that special copy-protection software must be installed. Game won't work without that. BTW on my 1950pro I have 30fps+ at 1440x900 (max detail+anizox8) so I see no reason to buy new gfx only for DX10. The truth is that every available DX10 gfx card will be too weak to run games with full DX10 support. The same story was with first DX9 card - Radeon9700. Try to run any new DX9 game on R9700 and you will see that first generation of graphic cards are simply too weak to play it smoothly.

[LoRd_MuldeR]

Since when rootkits are legal? Installing hidden applications should be treated at the same level as viruses,trojans and so on. User must be always informed about that. For instance Colin: Dirt informs users that special copy-protection software must be installed. Game won't work without that.

Of course you are right and I agree 100%. But I think they legitimate that with their right to protect their own software. As they always do. There also is a limitation that you can "activate" the full original(!) version of Bioshock only 5 times. At the beginning it was only 2 times, but they changed that after enormous protest of the users. But still after re-installing your system, you need to re-activate the game. So after 5 times you re-install Windows, you cannot use your legally bought Bioshock anymore! The reason why I won't buy this game, although the Demo looks really promising. They announced a tool, which can uninstall the game "online" and give you back one activation. But AFAIK it's not there yet. And how do you use such a tool when your system doesn't boot any more and you need to format your system partition? You can't and you loose one of your 5 activations forever!

[check]

No, it doesn't need a hidden driver or service to detect that process explorer has been opened. It simply checks for dlls that are loaded by PE at startup and not unloaded. Google the program "HidePE" for a workaround and more info.

[LoRd_MuldeR]

No, it doesn't need a hidden driver or service to detect that process explorer has been opened. It simply checks for dlls that are loaded by PE at startup and not unloaded. Google the program "HidePE" for a workaround and more info.
Interesting. I will investigate that. In case it turns out that is true, it's less annoying, but still annoying enough :rolleyes:


//EDIT

Hmm, it seems "HidePE" is the name of some well-known Trojan Horse.
So all Google results for "HidePE" are about how to recoginze/remove the HidePE trojan.

Can you provide a link please?

[Atak_Snajpera]

If you would use 5 activations You can always use crack. I see nothing wrong in that(if game was bought)

[check]

here we go: http://forum.sysinternals.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=11086&KW=hidepe

[LoRd_MuldeR]

If you would use 5 activations You can always use crack. I see nothing wrong in that(if game was bought)
Again I agree 100%, unfortunately the law doesn't :(
Having to use "illegal" software to use my legally bought game just sucks!

Let's wait a few months, maybe they will remove all the crap with an "official" patch, after the initial hype is over...

[LoRd_MuldeR]

here we go: http://forum.sysinternals.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=11086&KW=hidepe

:thanks: Actually that works !!!

I wonder when they will blacklist "HidePE", so we will need "Hide HidePE" :p

[Atak_Snajpera]

Again I agree 100%, unfortunately the law doesn't. Having to use "illegal" software to use my legally bought game just sucks!

If crack is used to play legally bought game it should not be treated as "illegal" software. Besides If game is not in drive disc won't be scratched.

[blizard]

So how good is DX10 for dealing with HTPC requirement? I think that is more important to discuss, then going too deep into how "bad" one game are to use root toolkit and for the record, I dislike all "invisible" software that make my system go crazy.

How well do those DX10 based video card support MPEG-4 in all flavour (ASP and AVC). Can these new cards do a better job when compared to the latest generation of DX9 based for video cards?

What about sound/audio which DX9 standard also process? Is it any difference between DX10 and DX9 from that point of view?

As far as I know latest FFDShow did something that broke support for AC3 (S/PDIF out) and one reason was that FFDShow tryouts project started to make build for Vista, which in some way didn't work very well for us old XP user.

[Dr.Khron]

Blizard- Good question, it hadn't even occurred to me that DX10 might effect AVC playback... Still, doesn't FFDshow use CPU cycles, not GPU cycles?

As for DX10 for games...
You expect a slide back wards in performance with any completely new API, for a variety of reasons (including consumer uptake and game development cycles, ala "Crossing the Chasm"). What matters to me in this first generation of DX10 hardware/software is that it LOOKS BETTER in some way.

HardOCP seems to think there is a very significant improvement in visual quality in "Call of Juarez"s implementation of DX10.

http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTM4NCwxLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==

[Doobie]

http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTM4NCwxLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==

Their examination shows that DX10 comes with a serious performance hit, making those games nearly unplayable with the setup the used. I'd much prefer to the DX9 graphics with fluid play than jerky DX10 play. To make matters worse, their DX9 was done on Vista. XP would have resulted in better performance.

[Dr.Khron]

Umm.... did you read my post?

OF COURSE THERE IS A PERFORMANCE HIT.
Thats the whole point.

Even without major software/hardware interface changes, playing new games on last years computer has always sucked... why should DX10 be any different?

You want to see the candy, you gotta have the processing HP to make it happen. I don't think anyone has ever claimed that DX10 would make everything go faster.

[Sharktooth]

well, no one would expect earthshattering DX10 performance with the actual video cards, but actual DX10 games run much slower than on DX9 with a negligible benefit on eye candy (with some exceptions)...
that difference is even accentuated on nvidia cards, that IMHO have really poor DX10 performance in comparison to ATI's. On the other side, with DX9 the situation is exactly the opposite.

[Sirber]

So, I would have higher FPS by not using DX10?

[Sharktooth]

basically, yes.