.mp4 encoded from .mov using MEGUI: ISSUES

[TheAgustin]

Hi there subscribers!

I need advise on h264 encoding a .mov file I'm generating from After Effects.

The current x264 encoded file I'm getting (.mp4) has some flaws (explained below).
The source is a high quality, loseless .mov of a couple GBs in file length generated out of After Effects.

I get to h264 encode the file using MEGUI just fine, but I would like to get the results of the Apple Trailers h264 movies.

My encoded output presents the following flaws (as opposed to the Apple Trailers):

1- Whenever I open the .mp4 file in Quicktime Player, the first frame is kind of transparent or broken, like you can see through it and images behind leave a trail, odd!
See screenscrap here www.thepossibleties.com/downloads/Comparisson.jpg

2- I can't add "metadata" to the output, can I?
See screenscrap here www.thepossibleties.com/downloads/Comparisson.jpg)

3- Whenever I move the timeline right or left (using Quicktime Player while playing the .mp4 file), it takes a very long time to process, in opposite to apple trailers that you can move back / forward like it's a 30kb movie.

4- Whenever I go FULLSCREEN, the playback continuity dies! (can't keep a synched, smooth playback)


I'm using MEGUI for the h264 encondig.

By the way, I used Mainconcept h264 encoder client and got the same problem with frame 0 being blank. If you have auto playback (in your QT settings) you will not notice it, but some users just open the movie and the blank frame sits in front of them, as opposed to the Apple Trailers that seem to push the timeline to the second frame instead.

I would appreciate your help.
I may have further questions. I'll credit you (and the Doom9 forum) in the movie ending titles :-)

Thank you so much. :thanks:
Cordially,

Agustin Garzon

[InorganicMatter]

Your problem? You are using Quicktime. :p

Really though, you probably used some x264 options that Quicktime does not support. Easy solution:

1 - Dump Quicktime
2 - Install the CCCP
3 - Install Quicktime Alternative
4 - Use Media Player Classic for all your playback needs

Problem solved!

As for metadata, you can add that with Mp3tag (it works with all tags, not just MP3s).

[TheAgustin]

Humm... Dropping QuickTime isn't an option.
I know there are people out there that have faced issues like this (I think SeeMoreDigital for instance)

Apple Trailers don't show these issues. They are fast, low weight, pristine quality and contained in the widely spread QuickTime .mov container.

My options are Quicktime or Flash, but I don't know of any free .flv VP6 command line compressors or SDK out there. Is there any?

Anyway, I don't want to lose the scope of this post.
I'm looking for advice to get results similar to Apple Trailers using MEGUI for my .mp4 encoded movie.

Thanks :)
Agustin

ps: What is CCCP and Quicktime Alternative?

[SeeMoreDigital]

Humm... Dropping QuickTime isn't an option.
I know there are people out there that have faced issues like this (I think SeeMoreDigital for instance)Hi there,

When encoding your source to x264 using MeGUI (personally I use AutoMKV), you will have to select and use the designated "QuickTime.xml" profile. And make sure no B-VOP's are being encoded into the stream.

It must be noted: Although the very latest versions of QT7 are able to support playback of MPEG-4.10 with 1B-VOP in .MP4 (generated using x264), QT7Pro is only able re-mux x264 encodes with 0B-VOP's into the .MOV container


Cheers

[InorganicMatter]

Humm... Dropping QuickTime isn't an option.

...

ps: What is CCCP and Quicktime Alternative?

You certainly can drop Quicktime. Quicktime Alternative is the Quicktime codec, without Quicktime. Install QTA (http://www.free-codecs.com/download/QuickTime_Alternative.htm) and CCCP (http://www.cccp-project.net/). Use the Media Player Classic from CCCP, and you can play Quicktime files with Media Player Classic. No bloatware, and you don't have to pay for fullscreen. :p

Apple Trailers don't show these issues. They are fast, low weight, pristine quality and contained in the widely spread QuickTime .mov container.

This is because Quicktime, like many other "next-gen" AVC players out there, doesn't actually fully support AVC. It only supports some options, and has limits on things like B-frames. Of course, Quicktime Pro will generate a fully Quicktime-compatible stream! Gotta love Apple's nickel-and-dime business model, eh? :p You seem new to the video playback/creation scene, so here is the most important piece of advice you will ever get: there is always a free piece of software that does the job better than paid software. Without fail. MPC > Quicktime. FFDSHOW > CoreAVC. AutoMKV > any H.264 encoder.

Just do what SeeMoreDigital said. Make sure you use the Quicktime profile in meGUI if you insist on using that bloated piece of junk.

[TheAgustin]

Should that setting get rid of the 'blank / broken' first frame issue? I'll try to make some tests, but will welcome your comments on this :)

Now I remember I saw a post where you said you were able to remux a .mp4 to .mov
That's great! Is there any CLI tool to do the same besides the QT Player ?

Finally, I want to let you know I found mp4tags.exe for those out there trying to add metadata information to your .mp4 files. They show up nicely in the Quicktime Player.

Thanks for your time :)

Cordially, Agustin

[SeeMoreDigital]

Should that setting get rid of the 'blank / broken' first frame issue? I'll try to make some tests, but will welcome your comments on this :)Yes it should do

Now I remember I saw a post where you said you were able to remux a .mp4 to .mov
That's great! Is there any CLI tool to do the same besides the QT Player ?Personally speaking I don't know of any.

For me, I have to use QT7Pro for re-muxing because I have to be 100% certain that all the (x264+AAC) encodes I generate for my clients work correctly in QT7 and in web pages (with the aid of QT7).


Cheers

[TheAgustin]

Dear InorganicMatter (hate not being able to find your names!), yes, I'm new to the subject, I've been researching on several tools but I'm not aware of all the concepts and options.

My final goal is being able to stream video from a web page that can be played by the largest audience without requiring them to install anything else (besides their downloaded QT plyr).

I don't aim techie people, just dumb users (like myself I would say :p ) to be able to play the movie after downloading the player.

I don't want visitors to have to install / uninstall any software or codec, like CA or CCCP.

That's why I'm h264 encoding into an .mp4 container (hopefully remuxable to .mov), and currently facing the few issues already described.

It's really great to hear your opinion and suggestions!

Cordially, Agustin

[TheAgustin]

Regarding MEGUI, how can I ensure I'm encoding 1B-VOP?
In the 'Advanced' panel there is the "B-Frames" groups where I can set 1 B-frame only. But I don't know where to set / ensure I'm encoding VOP.

Sorry for not using the proper jargon.

Thanks again :)

Agustin

[bond]

just choose 1 b-frame. better use sharktooths quicktime profile as SMD proposed to make sure no other settings are used that dont fit qt

[Kurtnoise]

Is there any CLI tool to do the same besides the QT Player ?
FFmpeg...

[TheAgustin]

Ok, I followed BOND & SMD recommendations and that did the trick:
I used the CE-Baseline profile of MEGUI which sets the best group of settings for Quicktime compatibility. No more broken first frame! Thank you guys !
(NOTE: CE-Quicktime profile ironically still shows the same issue. Damn it!)

For Kurt:
Can FFmpeg remux a .mp4 to .mov for sure? That would be great!

Finally, there is still the issue of movie time controls not being able to control the movie smoothly, I mean, it takes a lot of time if you make the timeline jump forward or simply move it forward or backward.

Have you experienced it at all? It only happens in QT player with the h264 movies encoded. Is it something we have to live with ?

:thanks:

Agustin.

[Kurtnoise]

Can FFmpeg remux a .mp4 to .mov for sure?
Yes...


btw, Quicktime player is known to be quite slow for the seeking, especially with avc contents.

[TheAgustin]

btw, Quicktime player is known to be quite slow for the seeking, especially with avc contents.

It seems we have to live with the slow seeking problem you mentioned, but do you have any clue on why the Apple Trailers playback continuity don't suffer at all when seeking?

Kurt, I wanted to thank you because I was able to from .mp4 to .mov with FFmpeg as you suggested! Great!

Yours,

Agustin

[Sharktooth]

coz CrapTime(TM) is completely b0rked.

[TheAgustin]

hhahahhha!! Such an honor to receive Sharktooh response!

You are so fiery when talking about QuickTime!

The issue remains the same. There must be a way to make QuickTime movies perform a faster seeking, after x264 encoding.

If h264 Apple Trailers are fast as hell when seeking, why isn't there a way for our (mine) x264 encoded movies to seek as fast?

I'm a little discouraged already, so I'll assume there is no way to seek faster. But if so, I'll more than happy.

Yours,
Agustin

[nurbs]

If h264 Apple Trailers are fast as hell when seeking, why isn't there a way for our (mine) x264 encoded movies to seek as fast?

Does anyone know how long the GOPs in apples trailers are? You could try to encode with shorter GOPs, that would speed up seeking.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Of-course the problem might be related to how FFmpeg muxes .MP4 to .MOV :eek:

[TheAgustin]

I'll make some tests reducing GOP from 25 (default gop size in Megui for CE-Baseline profile) to lower values. I'll post results.

The slow seeking issue occurs in the .mp4 file as well (before FFmpeg muxing to .mov)

:thanks:

Agus

[nurbs]

I'll make some tests reducing GOP from 25 (default gop size in Megui for CE-Baseline profile) to lower values.

I don't have megui at this pc, but isn't 25 what the profiles normally have as minimal gop lenght. Make sure you change the max lenght. Then again I've never looked at the CE-Baseline profile. :)

[TheAgustin]

I LOVE YOU SO MUCH !

It worked. Seeking doesn't take a lifetime anymore. It's very fast, at least as fast as I wanted (somewhere nearby Apple Trailers).

Perhaps seeking is even faster in players other than Quicktime player, but right now I'm over an excellent threshold.

How to? In meGUI, starting from CE-Baseline profile, I reduced Min GOP from 25 to 12. And Max GOP (keyframe interval) from 250 to 25. Perhaps this combo has other downside (yet to discover), but it proved that I can minimize seeking delay to a few milliseconds.

Yours,
Agustin

[SeeMoreDigital]

This is all good stuff to know about. Thanks for taking the time and effort to work on this issue ;)