upmixing newbie here

[Rck60s]

Hey all....i am new to upmixing and I have been using Audition with the V.I. plug ins which seem to be working great but I am really blind here...I really need an updated guide from someone who is familiar with audition and the V.I. plug ins...There is no new guide I can find anywhere...There are links for settings that are dead as they were posted 2 years ago....I have heard about a program called upmix but i do not know where to find it....I really want to do some Alan parsons and Yes upmixes as well as eagles but before I start i really need some help in getting the settings right...Most of the upmixes I have done have too much bleed according to some of the people who have dloaded them...so if there is a current guide out there anywhere i would love a link to it....Thank you all in advance for helping a newbie

[ursamtl]

Rck,

I responded to your private message with some hints for Audition, but I thought I'd copy and paste the info to this thread as well to help others who might be having problems.

First of all, last time I checked, the Audition guide was still up to date. I'll double check all the links in my posts. I can't do anything about those in posts by other users, but I'll try to make sure mine are ok.

[EDIT: I just checked all the links in my Audition guide and they're working ok. You might check the with the authors of posts containing links that don't work. -Steve]

As I wrote in my private message, in Audition, I recommend using the Group Waveform Normalize feature with the Equal loudness (Eq-loud) settings to measure levels (you can find it near the bottom of the Edit menu).

This is a far more accurate indicator of how loud tracks really are because it measures average level instead of momentary peaks. Regular Normalizing simply adjusts the peaks of the audio waveform to a given level. If you have one song that has a big difference between average level and its peaks but then second with very little difference, the latter will end up sounding much louder because its average level will be boosted. By comparing average levels with equal loudness contours, you'll end up with much more consistent results.

When you open Group Waveform Normalize, there are three tabs across the bottom of the dialog box. In the third tab, Normalize, make sure the "Use Equal Loudness Contour (mid frequencies more important)" checkbox is turned on or checked and that "Use Limiting" is selected in the bottom left corner.

I would recommend the fronts at about -12 to -14dB Eq-loud and the surrounds to about -15 or -16dB. Try a test CD or DVD and listen to it. If the surrounds aren't loud enough, try bringing them up to the same level as the fronts. The Center should be about -15 to -18dB (seems low, but if it's too loud the stereo image will be too narrow). As for the LFE, I'd avoid using it at all for music, but if you do, keep it to -20dB or lower.

Now, these levels may seem tremendously low, especially compared to post-2000 CDs. This is because such CDs have been mastered overly loud on purpose, thus ruining all kinds of otherwise good music, but that's another story). By keeping the levels lower, you preserve a lot more headroom for peaks. This is especially important for upmixing, because most methods of extracting surrounds will unmasking or create transients (temporary spikes) that shout up beyond the maximum levels available in digital audio and therefore distort.

Some people will tell you that keeping your levels as close to 0dB as possible maximizes your use of the digital data, but this is not entirely true. As long as your peaks go above -6dB, you will be using all available bits in 16-bit resolution. Moreoever, I highly recommend you work in 32-bit floating point resolution and then reduce to 24-bit resolution for DVD and DVD-Audio, or 16-bit resolution with dither for surround CDs (the dither is VITALLY important when reducing to 16 bits).

If you don't have or use Audition, these levels roughly correspond to "Replaygain," which is something I consider a Godsend in an age full of obnoxious mastering levels. Replaygain is built into Foobar2000 9.x. There is also a program called wavegain that will calculate and optionally adjust a wave file to replaygain levels (there's also one for mp3s, but I strongly recommend avoiding upmixing of lossy compressed files such as mp3s, wmas, ogg, etc. Flac, ape, shn, or lossless wma is fine).

Anyway, practice and find what works for you. As I wrote above, all songs are unique and require individual settings. The above are just some general guidelines. Mind you, it doesn't need to get overly complicated. You can get results as good as a commercial release simply by practicing and getting a feel for what levels work best for the audio material you're upmixing.

Regards,
Steve.

[Rck60s]

Thank you for the response so quickly and your private message..I was wondering however how you do the following..


"I would recommend the fronts at about -12 to -14dB Eq-loud and the surrounds to about -15 or -16dB. Try a test CD or DVD and listen to it. If the surrounds aren't loud enough, try bringing them up to the same level as the fronts. The Center should be about -15 to -18dB (seems low, but if it's too loud the stereo image will be too narrow). As for the LFE, I'd avoid using it at all for music, but if you do, keep it to -20dB or lower."

I tried to put more than one file in the group normilazation section and it would not let me....
also are you saying to do this with every song on the cd? or just the one song?

Can they all be done at once or do they need to be indivually done...sorry for the dumb questions but like I said I am new at this....

[ursamtl]

You sould see a list of all the files open in Group Waveform Normalize. Yes, I would do the same levels for all the songs on the CD unless of course you have some that are quieter and you want to keep them that way. Remember that you're doing this for yourself so do it the way you want it.

No need to apologize for the questions. We were all new to this stuff at one point. Asking questions helps others with the same issues and helps us all improve. This isn't some secret society and you don't need some "decoder ring" to join! ;)

[Rck60s]

Thanks...I am still confused like I responded in my PM to you...I tried to put more than one file in the box and it would not let me..I must be doing something wrong

[ursamtl]

You should have all open files listed in the "Choose files" tab of the Group Waveform Normalize dialog box (left tab at the bottom of the box).