Capture Cards: PDI Deluxe vs Snazzi V DVD Pro

[Seraphic-]

Wanted to know, has anyone used one of these cards? If so, I'm interested if they could comment on their experience the picture quality.

Both cards offer component input (480i max). But a post I found on Doom9 talks about the PDI Deluxe's chip-set being somewhat out of date and that it uses an older 8-bit DAC (POST HERE (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=117535&highlight=PDI+Deluxe)).

The PDI Deluxe costs somewhat more then the Snazzi V DVD Pro, but after looking at the specs and features of both cards, I'm thinking that the Snazzi* V DVD Pro might be the better buy. However, could anyone with experience with the cards speak to how they compare?

PDI Deluxe (http://www.pixelmagicsystems.com/products/pdi/pdi_deluxe.htm) | Snazzi V DVD Pro (http://www.snazzi.com/s5dvdpro.asp)

[Revgen]

8-bit DAC's are okay if you're capping from cable, digital cable feeds, VHS, or S-VHS.

10-bit is good if you capping from a HQ source like a DVD, Digital Camera, or any HQ source.

The difference shouldn't be that noticeable unless your eyes are keen.

Pixelmagic's advantage is that it can cap raw (or lossless) video while Snazzy's hardware limits you to using it's built-in hardware encoder. I'd rather cap raw (or lossless) and encode myself then be limited by my hardware. Any advantage the 10-bit DAC that Snazzy offers are taken away by the fact that it won't let you cap raw. I don't care if the hardware allows you to cap as high as 15mbps either, realtime hardware encoders simply aren't efficient.

However, if raw or lossless doesn't matter, then Snazzy should be fine.

[Seraphic-]

Thanks for the reply.

The thing is... it's hard to find component 480i capture cards (nearly impossible for 480p as I still haven't found one) so that is why I was looking at these two cards (even though they do 480i).

Yeah, I heard it has an 8-bit DAC. But I'm not sure if the PDI Deluxe uses the same chip-set as the Sweetspot (Sweetspot is the European PDI Deluxe). The European version seems to have a 9-bit chip (9-bit analog-to-digital converter). Or maybe that is different? Sweetspot Specs (http://www.pluggedin.tv/site/sweetspot/specs/index.html)

As for the the Snazzi V DVD Pro, picked one up the other day to test out the performance (was thinking of getting the PDI Deluxe too, just to compare and then just return the one I end up not using). Over-all, the Snazzi V DVD Pro works well, but it has a few issues.

1. Hard as hell to contact their support. No phone numbers work, and if you're lucky, you will get an e-mail reply after several days to your questions. Then another several days if you have more questions. Hate to think how I'm going to get an RMA # if I try and return the card...

2. To use the card's own capture software "Snazzi 5 DVD Pro" you have to install InterVideo WinDVD, Windows Media 9 run-time, and do a manual install of the card's video driver.

3. When using "Snazzi 5 DVD Pro" you can capture hardware based with MPEG-1, MPEG-2, or custom MPEG (custom allows for 720x480 or 640x480 (not sure if it's true 640x480 though as it could just 720x480 squished) and config of the hardware de-noiser). However, for console input, there is an audio/video sync issue while viewing the video during the record (common with hardware mpeg). The final video is in sync though.

A big downside is that the preview window itself is stuck around 320x240 (no matter what size the final video is... so it's hard to see the picture). As for software encoding, there is WMV 8 or 9, DivX, and DV-Type2. But to be honest, software encodes aren't too great. Hardware encodes seem to work better of the two, but picture is still not that great as the capture software itself does NOT seem to capture both video fields and the video is NOT interlaced. Thus, the picture is poor. Also, the software it self does not have a sharpness setting so picture is not crisp...

3. No WDM drivers for the audio chip on the card. This means you can't record audio from the card when using 3rd party capture programs and so you need a sound card with audio input.

4. When trying to record component video using 3rd party programs, the video is Black&White and at the same time is distorted. This is a huge letdown... component video is that main thing I was looking for and I think the problem has to due with their poor video drivers. I've tried component with DScaler (yes, card works with DScaler) and VirtualDub, but component video is still Black&White and distorted. On the other hand, S-Video works well with both these programs and the video is interlaced meaning it captures both video fields. You can also config 720x480 or 640x480 and also have access to saturation/hue/sharpness etc... control (can't seem to access config for hardware de-noiser though). And as for color space and compression with 3rd party capture, it seems to use a codec called "CFX2" with "no recompression and 12 bits per pixel". It seems to be lossless.

So over-all, when using a 3rd party capture program, an extra sound card, and S-Video, the results are impressive. But kinda sucks not having a WDM audio driver and a component video fix yet.

Anyone know if PDI Deluxe/Sweetspot has this kind of problem with component video when using DScaler?



Edit:
Good news, got the component input to work =D. The issue seemed to be caused because several odd settings were created when using component (don't know why), but just needed to correct them and it seems to be working. Now if only it accepted 480p, lol. (well it does, kind of, the picture is just split into two up the center)

[Revgen]

I just bought the PDI Deluxe a couple days after posting the post above. The picture isn't that bad actually. It's alot better than another BT8x8 card I had. The component video from my digital cable reciever looked a bit sharper and cleaner than the s-video.

The PDI uses Dscaler and is mostly meant for viewing rather than recording. The good thing is that it uses the BT-878 chipset whose specs are pretty much open-soure so there are tons of 3rd party software to choose from.

I use it combined with Dscaler 4.1.15 to record losslessly to Huffyuv.

[Seraphic-]

Interesting that you picked up the card (I had a few questions about it).

Using DScaler, are you able to record a full height (not counting 1/2 height) of 640x480 or 720x480? And how is your audio/video sync issue when recording (I had a sync issue when using a sound card for the audio input)? Also, can you post some samples with component?

I should report that I found a way to access the on-board audio processor when recording using 3rd party programs. Audio is very clear/vibrant and perfectly synced to video. With that fixed and component working, the only problems that remain are:

If the the card is truly recording 640x480 or if it's 720x480 squished/resized.

To decompress the proprietary "CXF2" color-space/compression format (found a way to do it short duration videos, but videos longer don't display a video source when trying to decompress).

The last is to do some more comparisons with S-Video and Component as the S-Video looks brighter and to have more vibrate color. (this could be due to the fact that component was meant to be used with their capture application).

[Revgen]

Interesting that you picked up the card (I had a few questions about it).

Using DScaler, are you able to record a full height (not counting 1/2 height) of 640x480 or 720x480? And how is your audio/video sync issue when recording (I had a sync issue when using a sound card for the audio input)? Also, can you post some samples with component?

I should report that I found a way to access the on-board audio processor when recording using 3rd party programs. Audio is very clear/vibrant and perfectly synced to video. With that fixed and component working, the only problems that remain are:

If the the card is truly recording 640x480 or if it's 720x480 squished/resized.

To decompress the proprietary "CXF2" color-space/compression format (found a way to do it short duration videos, but videos longer don't display a video source when trying to decompress).

The last is to do some more comparisons with S-Video and Component as the S-Video looks brighter and to have more vibrate color. (this could be due to the fact that component was meant to be used with their capture application).


I can record full-height. It captures 720x480 but I wouldn't call it resized, it just digitizes the analog signal to 720x480. However, I make sure to use YUY2 compatible codecs since they will perform faster. No sound sync issues for me. I just plug sound into my line-in port of my sound card and it records.

The only downside is that Dscaler is VFW only and doesn't currently work with FFDshow's VFW interface. I don't know why exactly. So you're only limited to Xvid, Huffyuv, Lagarith, and others other than FFDShow. However, if you have no problem encoding lossless then it shouldn't be a problem.

Fortunately, other 3rd party programs and drivers are available for the BT878 chipset, so FFDShow ought to work with them. I'm not sure if those programs can capture full height though since I only use Dscaler.

I'm not familiar with CXF2.

The S-Video is brighter for this card, but I wouldn't say better. The bandwith is more limited and there is more noise too. The limited bandwith probably cancels out of lot of the blacks therefore appearing brighter.

The thing with this card is that it was meant for HTPC's and therefore more for viewing rather than recording. I use it since I have experience recording using Dscaler. It's not exactly a packaged capping card. The capture video from the component input does look good though, so it's worth it for me.

[Seraphic-]

Never heard of "CXF2" (Conexant Falcon Video) myself, but it's the only format that this card will record in when using 3rd party programs. It also "seems" to be lossless, but I can't say for sure just yet. Not really a big deal, but I'm having a hard time decompressing it into an editable format. Videos less then a few minutes work fine, but videos that are longer then a few minutes have issues... I'm unable to decompress the video source at that point, just the audio.

640x480 Not-Deinterlaced) S-Video on left and Component on the right.

http://www.seraphicgate.com/temp/640sv.png http://www.seraphicgate.com/temp/640c.png


720x480 Not-Deinterlaced) S-Video on top and Component on the bottom.

http://www.seraphicgate.com/temp/720sv.png
http://www.seraphicgate.com/temp/720c.png

As you can see, the text seems to be smoother with Component, but the color also seems to be less vibrant and the picture less bright. Also, about the 640x480 image, I'm still unsure if that is true 640x480 or the card just resizing down to it from 720x480. Their support still has not responded and I wonder if the video fields are damaged if it is resized.

Here a few sample videos that have been converted from CXF2 to YUY2: (anyone have some thoughts on what they think looks better?)

640x480 Not-Deinterlaced) S-Video (http://www.seraphicgate.com/temp/640sv.rar) - Component (http://www.seraphicgate.com/temp/640c.rar)
720x480 Not-Deinterlaced) S-Video (http://www.seraphicgate.com/temp/720sv.rar) - Component (http://www.seraphicgate.com/temp/720c.rar)

[squid_80]

Any chance you could post a small sample of one of these "CXF2" encoded files? It might just be a raw format with a dodgy fourcc.

[Revgen]

As you can see, the text seems to be smoother with Component, but the color also seems to be less vibrant and the picture less bright.

Pretty typical with my card, however it's more noticeable in motion than in stills.

However, it doesn't bother me since the component cables are allowing more blacks to come through due to higher bandwith. If it's too dark then the brightness can be adjusted with Avisynth HDR plugins or others.

[Seraphic-]

Just a heads up. If anyone buys a "Snazzi" product don't expect much support (if any). It's been almost a week with no reply and their support e-mail box if full...

Any chance you could post a small sample of one of these "CXF2" encoded files? It might just be a raw format with a dodgy fourcc.

It seems to based on DirectShow and the below Avisynth script works. However, like I said, videos that are longer then a few minutes no longer return their video (just constant gray image). CXF2 Video (http://www.seraphicgate.com/temp/1.rar).

(squid_80, if the download comes back as corrupt download it again. It was only about 60% uploaded when I posted the link (didn't know you were online, lol)

DirectShowSource("C:\1.avi", fps=29.97, audio=true, pixel_type="YUY2")

Pretty typical with my card, however it's more noticeable in motion than in stills.

However, it doesn't bother me since the component cables are allowing more blacks to come through due to higher bandwith. If it's too dark then the brightness can be adjusted with Avisynth HDR plugins or others.

Yeah, it does have more bandwidth for sure. And I wanted to learn some more about "YCbCr" so I did some searching on how it works. After reading up on it, it seems it inputs a full vertical resolution but only half of the horizontal resolution. Thought that was odd, was expecting it to input a full v/h resolution. However, YCbCr was designed to be less bandwidth intensive then RGB (so maybe RGB does the full v/h resolution?).

Anyway, just wanted to get an idea from you if the results were about the same with the PDI Deluxe in relation to brightness, etc. Speaking of the PDI, does that accept both YCbCr and RGB?

[squid_80]

It's some sort of YUV uncompressed format, 12bpp but not standard YV12 or I420.

[Seraphic-]

It's some sort of YUV uncompressed format, 12bpp but not standard YV12 or I420.

Thanks for looking into that. Just to recap: "CFX2" (Conexant Falcon Video) with "no recompression and 12 bits per pixel"

Hmmm... do you have any suggestions on how to decompress it into an editable format?

[Revgen]

Just a heads up. If anyone buys a "Snazzi" product don't expect much support (if any). It's been almost a week with no reply and their support e-mail box if full...



It seems to based on DirectShow and the below Avisynth script works. However, like I said, videos that are longer then a few minutes no longer return their video (just constant gray image). CXF2 Video (http://www.seraphicgate.com/temp/1.rar).

(squid_80, if the download comes back as corrupt download it again. It was only about 60% uploaded when I posted the link (didn't know you were online, lol)

DirectShowSource("C:\1.avi", fps=29.97, audio=true, pixel_type="YUY2")



Yeah, it does have more bandwidth for sure. And I wanted to learn some more about "YCbCr" so I did some searching on how it works. After reading up on it, it seems it inputs a full vertical resolution but only half of the horizontal resolution. Thought that was odd, was expecting it to input a full v/h resolution. However, YCbCr was designed to be less bandwidth intensive then RGB (so maybe RGB does the full v/h resolution?).

Anyway, just wanted to get an idea from you if the results were about the same with the PDI Deluxe in relation to brightness, etc. Speaking of the PDI, does that accept both YCbCr and RGB?

Both RGB and Component are supported.

The formats supported are:

Composite
S-Video
Component YPbPr (not YCbCr)
RGB (Composite Sync)
RGB (Sync on Green)

Composite Sync and Sync on Green explained here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Component_video_sync
YPbPr explained here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YPbPr

[squid_80]

Thanks for looking into that. Just to recap: "CFX2" (Conexant Falcon Video) with "no recompression and 12 bits per pixel"

Hmmm... do you have any suggestions on how to decompress it into an editable format?

CXF2, not CFX2. I can't figure out how the pixels are arranged and googling seems to show no-one else has either. I did manage to get hold of the directshow codec which can decode it (colorcvt.ax, "Conexant Color Format Convertor") so I might be able to reverse engingeer something.

[Seraphic-]

Appreciate your help with this as I'm getting no tech support from Sanzzi with the issue.

Anyway, here are the 32-bit and 64-bit drivers for the card (I'm using 32-bit and the colorcvt.ax came with it, but wasn't sure if you needed it). Maybe the drivers will assist you. Download (http://www.seraphicgate.com/temp/drivers.rar)

[Seraphic-]

Both RGB and Component are supported.

The formats supported are:

Composite
S-Video
Component YPbPr (not YCbCr)
RGB (Composite Sync)
RGB (Sync on Green)

Composite Sync and Sync on Green explained here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Component_video_sync
YPbPr explained here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YPbPr

Also Revgen, are you using RGB at all or just Component YPbPr? If you have or are able to use both, did one outperform the other in picture quality?

EDIT: Didn't mean to post, meant to edit my above one...

[Revgen]

Also Revgen, are you using RGB at all or just Component YPbPr? If you have or are able to use both, did one outperform the other in picture quality?

EDIT: Didn't mean to post, meant to edit my above one...

I don't have any hardware that outputs RGB. I only use component YPbPr because that's what my Digital Cable Reciever outputs. Sorry.

[Seraphic-]

I don't have any hardware that outputs RGB. I only use component YPbPr because that's what my Digital Cable Reciever outputs. Sorry.

No problem, thanks for the reply.

One other thing, does the PDI Deluxe have a "capture filter" setting? Where you can config things like contrast, hue, saturation, sharpness etc. Also, is there a capture pin? I don't have DScaler installed at the moment, but if you have VirtualDub (if PDI Deluxe works with it), go to file > capture avi > go to device > select PDI Deluxe > go to video tab > look for capture filter/pin.

Capture pin should look something like this...

http://www.seraphicgate.com/temp/cp.png

[Revgen]

No problem, thanks for the reply.

One other thing, does the PDI Deluxe have a "capture filter" setting? Where you can config things like contrast, hue, saturation, sharpness etc. Also, is there a capture pin? I don't have DScaler installed at the moment, but if you have VirtualDub (if PDI Deluxe works with it), go to file > capture avi > go to device > select PDI Deluxe > go to video tab > look for capture filter/pin.

Capture pin should look something like this...

http://www.seraphicgate.com/temp/cp.png

Yep. You need to download the BTWincap drivers to use it with VirtualDub. I just tried it, and it works well with Vdub. I can even use FFDshow with Vdub which I can't do with Dscaler. Hue, Brightness, and other settings work too.

[squid_80]

I've nailed down how to process luma but chroma looks like it's got the same ridiculous ordering as well as being packed instead of planar. Better give me another day or so.

[Seraphic-]

Yep. You need to download the BTWincap drivers to use it with VirtualDub. I just tried it, and it works well with Vdub. I can even use FFDshow with Vdub which I can't do with Dscaler. Hue, Brightness, and other settings work too.

If you have a chance you could you list what settings are available in the capture filter? Does it have all of these?: "Brightness. Contrast, Hue, Saturation, Sharpness". Also, in the capture pin, what color space / compression choices are available and what output sizes are available? Thanks

I've nailed down how to process luma but chroma looks like it's got the same ridiculous ordering as well as being packed instead of planar. Better give me another day or so.

Really appreciate you trying to decompress that codec as the card is useless since the captured video can't even be used. But might I ask, what process are you using to reverse engineer it? Anyway, did you see my post with the card drivers? Here it is again if you missed it: Download (http://www.seraphicgate.com/temp/drivers.rar). (it might help)

[Revgen]

Colorspace/Compression

RGB 24
RGB 32
YUY2
YVU9
UYVY
Y41P
YV12
I420
RGB555(16-bit)
RGB556(16-bit

Resolutions (NTSC):

80x60
88x72
128x96
160x120
176x144
240x176
240x180
320x240
352x240
640x240
640x288
640x480
720x240
720x288
720x480

Filter Settings:

Brightness
Contrast
Hue
Saturation
Sharpness
Gamma
White Balance
Backlight Comp
Color Enable/Disable

[SeeMoreDigital]

Any PAL resolutions?

[Revgen]

Any PAL resolutions?

It supports PAL, but I set up the drivers for NTSC. The box says that it supports PAL up to 576i. The BTWincap drivers describe the device as "PMS Sweetspot" during the driver installation, which is the European version. I'm fairly sure it supports the highest PAL resolutions.

On top of that, I don't have a PAL source to use it with, so I wouldn't be able to tell you for sure.

[Chainmax]

Revgen, have you ever tried a Compro Ultra and/or X800? I'd love to see how they stack up against the PDI.

[Seraphic-]

Colorspace/Compression

RGB 24
RGB 32
YUY2
YVU9
UYVY
Y41P
YV12
I420
RGB555(16-bit)
RGB556(16-bit

Resolutions (NTSC):

80x60
88x72
128x96
160x120
176x144
240x176
240x180
320x240
352x240
640x240
640x288
640x480
720x240
720x288
720x480

Filter Settings:

Brightness
Contrast
Hue
Saturation
Sharpness
Gamma
White Balance
Backlight Comp
Color Enable/Disable

Nice available configuration.

If you don't mind, I have a few other questions:

Could you please post two random component images? one captured with a setting of 640x480 and the other at 720x480 (I would like to compare them with my captures to see if it records similar picture fields as the Snazzi* V DVD Pro)

Is there much video noise when using component with VirtualDub? I mean, does it look about the same as it does when using DScaler?

Thanks

[Revgen]

Dscaler can only cap at 720. Vdub can cap at 720 and 640. All caps are from digital cable.

http://img474.imageshack.us/img474/2120/dscaler720im5.th.png (http://img474.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscaler720im5.png)
Dscaler 720 cap.

http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/5982/vdub720fv2.th.png (http://img396.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vdub720fv2.png)
Vdub 720 cap.

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/4683/vdub640cn0.th.png (http://img20.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vdub640cn0.png)
Vdub 640 cap.

There are no differences in picture that I can notice.

The difference between Dscaler and Vdub is that one is more of a viewing software (Dscaler) while the other is more oriented towards capping. What I like about Dscaler is that I can watch while recording easier than with Vdub. Dscaler also bobs the video for smooth motion while the capping is going on without dropping frames while capping. This is due to the fact that it accesses the hardware directly without going through the directshow or VFW driver layer. Dscaler does have limitations in that it doesn't cap at any other res than 720x480, can't cap with FFdshow, and can't cap in any other sound format other than 44khz-16bit PCM. Vdub, unlike Dscaler, can't support overlay unless the resolution is set at 320x240. This doesn't inhibit it's ability to cap at any resolution, however it's hardly the kind of software I want to watch TV and cap with. However, if capping is your thing, vdub has a lot more options. Dscaler as a capping solution hasn't bothered me that much, but if you don't like it's limitations you can always go with Vdub or vice versa depending upon preference.

[squid_80]

Really appreciate you trying to decompress that codec as the card is useless since the captured video can't even be used. But might I ask, what process are you using to reverse engineer it? Anyway, did you see my post with the card drivers? Here it is again if you missed it: Download (http://www.seraphicgate.com/temp/drivers.rar). (it might help)
I've already got colorcvt.ax, it's the only thing I need. I'm using it to figure out the pixel formatting by feeding it normal YV12 images (disguised as CXF2) and seeing how they end up. That way I know what transformation to apply.
I've made an avisynth filter available here: http://216.75.63.164/andrew/cxf2convert.dll
If I load your sample video using this avisynth script:loadplugin("cxf2convert.dll")
avisource("1.avi", fourcc="YV12")
cxf2convert()
I get a good greyscale image. I still need to figure out how chroma is arranged.

[Seraphic-]

Dscaler can only cap at 720. Vdub can cap at 720 and 640. All caps are from digital cable.

http://img474.imageshack.us/img474/2120/dscaler720im5.th.png (http://img474.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscaler720im5.png)
Dscaler 720 cap.

http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/5982/vdub720fv2.th.png (http://img396.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vdub720fv2.png)
Vdub 720 cap.

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/4683/vdub640cn0.th.png (http://img20.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vdub640cn0.png)
Vdub 640 cap.

There are no differences in picture that I can notice.

The difference between Dscaler and Vdub is that one is more of a viewing software (Dscaler) while the other is more oriented towards capping. What I like about Dscaler is that I can watch while recording easier than with Vdub. Dscaler also bobs the video for smooth motion while the capping is going on without dropping frames while capping. This is due to the fact that it accesses the hardware directly without going through the directshow or VFW driver layer. Dscaler does have limitations in that it doesn't cap at any other res than 720x480, can't cap with FFdshow, and can't cap in any other sound format other than 44khz-16bit PCM. Vdub, unlike Dscaler, can't support overlay unless the resolution is set at 320x240. This doesn't inhibit it's ability to cap at any resolution, however it's hardly the kind of software I want to watch TV and cap with. However, if capping is your thing, vdub has a lot more options. Dscaler as a capping solution hasn't bothered me that much, but if you don't like it's limitations you can always go with Vdub or vice versa depending upon preference.

What did you mean about the supported overlay at 320x240 (not sure what you mean)?

One of my sources is a 4:3 (640x480) picture so that is why I was interested in the available output format. But what I find interesting is that when using VirtualDub at 640x480 the PDI Deluxe seems to be recording a much larger picture field then the Snazzi V DVD Pro using VirtualDub at 640x480 (as you can see below).

http://www.seraphicgate.com/temp/vs.png

I've already got colorcvt.ax, it's the only thing I need. I'm using it to figure out the pixel formatting by feeding it normal YV12 images (disguised as CXF2) and seeing how they end up. That way I know what transformation to apply.
I've made an avisynth filter available here: http://216.75.63.164/andrew/cxf2convert.dll
If I load your sample video using this avisynth script:loadplugin("cxf2convert.dll")
avisource("1.avi", fourcc="YV12")
cxf2convert()
I get a good greyscale image. I still need to figure out how chroma is arranged.

The driver folder also contains several other files including two other .ax files. (reason I thought you might want to take a look at it)

Very nice, I gave your .dll and script an try and it decompressed it into a overall good picture in greyscale. :)

Did you want one of the longer videos that I was telling you about (the one that returns a grey image after a set time when using the DirectShowSource method)? That time limit seems to be anything over about 2:45 - 3:00 and would be about 900MB using a full WinRAR. I don't mind uploading it if you don't mind downloading it.

And speaking of the longer captures, I'm going to give your script a try using one. I'll post results in a few.

[Revgen]

When you try to view the TV with Overlay you can only use 320x240 in Vdub. If not than the video doesn't show. So If you want to view the TV Footage in other resolutions, you'll have to use Preview instead. The tv footage caps well regardless of whether you use Overlay or Preview to view.

[Seraphic-]

When you try to view the TV with Overlay you can only use 320x240 in Vdub. If not than the video doesn't show. So If you want to view the TV Footage in other resolutions, you'll have to use Preview instead. The tv footage caps well regardless of whether you use Overlay or Preview to view.

Ah. I see. Never really tried using a TV source so was unaware of such problems.

Also squid_80, here are those results:

Raw 640x480 CXF2 video: 3:40 in length and 3.22GB in size
http://www.seraphicgate.com/temp/dc1.png

Decompress results using DirectShowSource method
http://www.seraphicgate.com/temp/dc2.png

Decompress results using cxf2convert.dll method
http://www.seraphicgate.com/temp/dc3.png

[Revgen]

Revgen, have you ever tried a Compro Ultra and/or X800? I'd love to see how they stack up against the PDI.

I've never used those cards before. Sorry. All I can say is that it's the best looking analog card I've seen. Even the S-Video inputs look good.

It supports just about every type of video from Composite, S-Video, Component, and RGB. As long as it's 480i or 576i.

[squid_80]

Also squid_80, here are those results:
Was this file captured with virtualdub?
What do you get if you take cxf2convert() out of the avisynth script e.g. just use one line avisource("captured_file.avi", fourcc="YV12")?

[Seraphic-]

Was this file captured with virtualdub?
What do you get if you take cxf2convert() out of the avisynth script e.g. just use one line avisource("captured_file.avi", fourcc="YV12")?

Yes, VirtualDub was used. But if I remember correctly, it was also used with the one video I sent you as well. As for just using "avisource("captured_file.avi", fourcc="YV12")", the result is below.

http://www.seraphicgate.com/temp/dc4.png

[squid_80]

Looks like a broken file, not sure how it would happen though. Are you able to open it by any means at all?

[Seraphic-]

I'm able to play the video as normal when using Media Player Classic (Windows Media Player can't at all). Although, when trying to use the seek bar in Media Player Classic, the video's speed is increased until it reaches the new location rather then jumping right to it.

It seems the video becomes "broken" after about 2:45 or longer of capture...

[squid_80]

Right around where the filesize reaches 2Gig, I'll bet. I think it's a keyframe issue - there are no keyframes at all in the sample file you posted, I'm guessing the other files are the same. What version of virtualdub are you using? There was a problem similar to this fixed in 1.7.2 but it was slightly different.

[Seraphic-]

I'm using 32-Bit VirtualDub with 1.6.19.0. The reason is I can't get any color for the component input with anything other then VirtualDub as the setting seems to default to PAL when I'm using NTSC.

[squid_80]

I should have said a workaround was added for bad codecs rather than a problem was fixed. Virtualdub isn't broken, the capture driver is. Using v1.7.2 might solve the problem but I can't guarantee it.

[Seraphic-]

I should have said a workaround was added for bad codecs rather than a problem was fixed. Virtualdub isn't broken, the capture driver is. Using v1.7.2 might solve the problem but I can't guarantee it.

Yeah, I agree the problem is with the capture driver but it looks like doing a encode using 1.7.2.0 fixes the issue :)

Using DirectShowSource produced the same result as with 1.6.19.0. However, using your full script resulted in what appears to be the original greyscale picture that you found when using the shorter clip.

Raw 720x480 CXF2 video: 3:40 in length and 3.22GB in size
http://www.seraphicgate.com/temp/dc5.png

Decompress results using DirectShowSource method
http://www.seraphicgate.com/temp/dc6.png

Decompress results using cxf2convert.dll method (full Avisynth script)
http://www.seraphicgate.com/temp/dc7.png

Decompress results using just "avisource("C:\1.avi", fourcc="YV12")"
http://www.seraphicgate.com/temp/dc8.png

[squid_80]

I just figured out how to get chroma working - it's packed, transposed and then the (packed!) planes are swapped.

Download the new .dll from the same location and see how it goes. The big upside of this is you should be able to run avisynth deinterlacers on the original YV12 captured data rather than the (wrongly converted) YUY2 output of the directshow decoder.

[Seraphic-]

I just figured out how to get chroma working - it's packed, transposed and then the (packed!) planes are swapped.

Download the new .dll from the same location and see how it goes. The big upside of this is you should be able to run avisynth deinterlacers on the original YV12 captured data rather than the (wrongly converted) YUY2 output of the directshow decoder.

It works perfectly! Thanks for taking the time to find a process to decompress that stream. :) Also, YV12 removes about 3/4 chroma, right? I guess extra saturation be recommended to compensate?

[Chainmax]

I've never used those cards before. Sorry. All I can say is that it's the best looking analog card I've seen. Even the S-Video inputs look good.

It supports just about every type of video from Composite, S-Video, Component, and RGB. As long as it's 480i or 576i.

The Videomate Ultra's captures are extremely good looking, as can be seen in this comparison (http://richardberg.net/WeatherMapRoundup) made by Richard Berg a long time ago. I assumed the X800 (which seems to be its successor) would look even better, but I read some reports that its S-Video capture didn't look as good. Anyway, how would you say the PDI compares to the Ultra based on your captures and the screenshots in the comparison I linked to?

[squid_80]

Also, YV12 removes about 3/4 chroma, right? I guess extra saturation be recommended to compensate?
I'm not really a colour expert, but with YV12 the chroma resolution is reduced spatially. The samples are still full scale so saturation shouldn't be affected.

[Revgen]

The Videomate Ultra's captures are extremely good looking, as can be seen in this comparison (http://richardberg.net/WeatherMapRoundup) made by Richard Berg a long time ago. I assumed the X800 (which seems to be its successor) would look even better, but I read some reports that its S-Video capture didn't look as good. Anyway, how would you say the PDI compares to the Ultra based on your captures and the screenshots in the comparison I linked to?

Based on the video, I'd say the PDI looks better. The woman's face looks a little too blurry and ugly. Then again, it may be the source video that's bad and not the Compro card. Even if it does not look good, it's a BT878 chipset, so there are lots of ways to tweak it. And plenty of 3rd party support.

Keep in mind that the PDI Deluxe isn't a tuner. It only takes s-video, component, composite, and RGB sources. It doesn't process audio either. So TV must done by VCR's or digital cable recievers and video must be passed to the PDI Deluxe and the audio to the soundcard.

[Seraphic-]

I just figured out how to get chroma working - it's packed, transposed and then the (packed!) planes are swapped.

Download the new .dll from the same location and see how it goes. The big upside of this is you should be able to run avisynth deinterlacers on the original YV12 captured data rather than the (wrongly converted) YUY2 output of the directshow decoder.

Not sure if much can be done at this point, but just wanted to report that when using an output size of 640x480 the decompress method returns a picture like the one below (720x480 works as discussed before). Anyway, Snazzi* support finally got back to me and said they would pass the CFX2 decompress question I asked onto a higher up (I would say a good week before a reply...)

http://www.seraphicgate.com/temp/dc4.png

[squid_80]

Can you post a sample of the 640x480 CXF2 file? Strip out the audio and cut a section of 20 frames or so to keep the size down.

[Chainmax]

Based on the video, I'd say the PDI looks better. The woman's face looks a little too blurry and ugly. Then again, it may be the source video that's bad and not the Compro card. Even if it does not look good, it's a BT878 chipset, so there are lots of ways to tweak it. And plenty of 3rd party support.

Keep in mind that the PDI Deluxe isn't a tuner. It only takes s-video, component, composite, and RGB sources. It doesn't process audio either. So TV must done by VCR's or digital cable recievers and video must be passed to the PDI Deluxe and the audio to the soundcard.

The only thing I want is as good an analogue capture card as possible. The PDI is very intirguing, especially as it has been recommended to me before, but its $230 price tag is too steep for me. Guess I'm going to take a risk and try the X800 then, at least it's not that expensive (~$74). By the way, the Ultra has a Philips SAA7133/7134 chipset, not a BT8x8 one, and the X800 has a Conexant CX23883.

[Seraphic-]

The only thing I want is as good an analogue capture card as possible. The PDI is very intirguing, especially as it has been recommended to me before, but its $230 price tag is too steep for me. Guess I'm going to take a risk and try the X800 then, at least it's not that expensive (~$74). By the way, the Ultra has a Philips SAA7133/7134 chipset, not a BT8x8 one, and the X800 has a Conexant CX23883.

You could also look at the other card talked about in this topic, the Snazzi* V DVD Pro. It also has component input with line-in stereo (I've posted several sample images/videos) and is $150. Other then the CXF2 issue, it's not that bad of a card. Also, did you know the Conexant CX23885 supports 480p? :D - Posted some info and a card that uses it here (http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1033753&postcount=25). (not sure what the card can capture yet though)

Can you post a sample of the 640x480 CXF2 file? Strip out the audio and cut a section of 20 frames or so to keep the size down.

Sure, here is one: Download (http://www.seraphicgate.com/temp/2.rar)

[squid_80]

Sure, here is one: Download (http://www.seraphicgate.com/temp/2.rar)
The image is 640x480, but internally it's stored as 720x480 with garbage on the right hand side. Who came up with this format, drunken monkeys?

I'll have to think about how to fix this, it's not possible to get around it with the avisynth filter alone.