Tool or aproach to make AVI to contain VC1 with B-frames

[Dmitry Vergheles]

Hi folks,

Is there any certain tool to be able encode video to advanced VC-1 (with B-frames) and muх it to AVI directly,

If not, what is the right approach to remux such a WMV file, produced by Windows Media Encoder to AVI.

Thanks in advance.

[Inventive Software]

OK, this begs the question.... WHY?! :D

AVI cannot support B-frames natively. Xvid and DivX cheat in that respect. WMV9 VCM is correct in that it doesn't encode B-frames for the AVI file, but is still VC-1 compliant. For your needs and less hassle, I strongly recommend you DROP AVI and use MKV instead. ;) mkvtoolnix in the "New and alternative containers forum" can help with the remuxing from WMV to MKV.

[Dmitry Vergheles]

OK, this begs the question.... WHY?! :D

AVI cannot support B-frames natively. Xvid and DivX cheat in that respect. WMV9 VCM is correct in that it doesn't encode B-frames for the AVI file, but is still VC-1 compliant. For your needs and less hassle, I strongly recommend you DROP AVI and use MKV instead. ;) mkvtoolnix in the "New and alternative containers forum" can help with the remuxing from WMV to MKV.

Hi Inventive Software,
thanks for the anseer. I'm aware of all the possible problems with b frames and even guess how it is possible to avoid them but I need certain tools that already implemented such trick methods.

[CruNcher]

OK, this begs the question.... WHY?! :D

AVI cannot support B-frames natively. Xvid and DivX cheat in that respect. WMV9 VCM is correct in that it doesn't encode B-frames for the AVI file, but is still VC-1 compliant. For your needs and less hassle, I strongly recommend you DROP AVI and use MKV instead. ;) mkvtoolnix in the "New and alternative containers forum" can help with the remuxing from WMV to MKV.

hehe isn't it clear that Solveig got a customer demand for .avi files with VC-1 containing b-frames (for whatever reason they need it) ;)

[Dmitry Vergheles]

hehe isn't it clear that Solveig got a customer demand for .avi files with VC-1 containing b-frames (for whatever reason they need it) ;)

Almost right:) we have some feedback about problems with our trimming solutions with such kind of files. But unfortunately we were not sent any original one. So, we are trying to produce such a file for testing purposes but up to the moment without any success.

[Koti]

Open "vc1.wmv" in graphedit - mux to mkv using gabest mkv muxer - save to "vc1.mkv" file

Open "vc1.mkv" file in graphedit now using avimux (microsoft , don't forget in properties to check interleaving to "full") conect and save to "vc1.avi" ( this is assuming haali splitter was splitting mkv , at least this is how it works on my system :) )

dont flame me for stuffin vc1 w/B's in avi ;) but its possible

samples available

[bond]

if you want to harm a format, place it in avi ;)

[Dmitry Vergheles]

Ok thanks guys. Do I understand correctly that there is no somehow known tool to encode vc1 to AVI directly?

[bond]

it comes to my mind that next to using dshow (with m$ own avi muxer) you could try ffmpeg

[Koti]

Ok thanks guys. Do I understand correctly that there is no somehow known tool to encode vc1 to AVI directly?

VirtualDub -
Video Compression - ffdshow video codec
(select "Windows Media Video 9 Advanced Pro" in ffdshow encoder. In the Generic section I used "1 Pass - quality" and "complexity 5" ). In the output tab selected store frames to avi.

Note: WMV9 PowerToy can be used to further configure Windows Media Video 9 Advanced Pro in ffdshow encoder. Set and apply before starting encode.

Saved as avi in vdub

ffdshow reports a B-Frame Avi file , Oh the wonders of AVI ;)

ps. I used Virtualdub 1.6.19 and ffdshow tryouts revision 1340 , Jul 7 2007

[benwaggoner]

Why not just leave VC-1 in a WMV?

[Dmitry Vergheles]

Why not just leave VC-1 in a WMV?

As far as I know Anvanced Streaming Format has the same problems with non increasing frames time stamps. Such time stamps exist in video with bidirectional frames.

And to put VC-1 or any other b-frames video to ASF one should make the same tricks as putting to AVI.

VirtualDub -
Video Compression - ffdshow video codec
(select "Windows Media Video 9 Advanced Pro" in ffdshow encoder. In the Generic section I used "1 Pass - quality" and "complexity 5" ). In the output tab selected store frames to avi.

Saved as avi in vdub

ffdshow reports a B-Frame Avi file , Oh the wonders of AVI

ps. I used Virtualdub 1.6.19 and ffdshow tryouts revision 1340 , Jul 7 2007

Thank you we are giving it a try.

[Dmitry Vergheles]

VirtualDub -
Video Compression - ffdshow video codec
(select "Windows Media Video 9 Advanced Pro" in ffdshow encoder. In the Generic section I used "1 Pass - quality" and "complexity 5" ). In the output tab selected store frames to avi.

Saved as avi in vdub

ffdshow reports a B-Frame Avi file , Oh the wonders of AVI ;)

ps. I used Virtualdub 1.6.19 and ffdshow tryouts revision 1340 , Jul 7 2007

Strange, we tried this but FFDshow decoder reported no B frame. We tried 1354 (newer) codec version. Now we are going to try 1340.

[Dmitry Vergheles]

with this version (1340) the same situation - no B Frames.
Koti, could you upload a small sample of the file you produced?

[Koti]

For decoder I used libavcodec option in ffdshow - wmv9 decoder option in ffdshow reports I,P, only but the frame sizes stay frozen , but check the frame sizes and the report using libavcodec for decoding (keeping in mind 1 frame avi decoder lag )

now I may be 100% wrong but I have no idea any other way to definitively tell. another file I produced with Nic's wmv encoder (using bframes) that I muxed to avi reports the same way.

http://rapidshare.com/files/43365939/vc1_ffdshow_sample.avi.html

[Dmitry Vergheles]

For decoder I used libavcodec in ffdshow - wmv9 decoder reports I,P, only but the frame sizes stay frozen , but check the frame sizes and the report using libavcodec for decoding (keeping in mind 1 frame avi decoder lag )

now I may be 100% wrong but I have no idea any other way to definitively tell. another file I produced with Nic's wmv encoder (using bframes) that I muxed to avi reports the same way.

http://rapidshare.com/files/43365939/vc1_ffdshow_sample.avi.html

We tested twho versions of decoders on WMV with B-Frames/
1340 - does not show B frames presence
1354 - shows So try to update your decoder.

Thanks for the file we will try it.

[Dmitry Vergheles]

For decoder I used libavcodec option in ffdshow - wmv9 decoder option in ffdshow reports I,P, only but the frame sizes stay frozen , but check the frame sizes and the report using libavcodec for decoding (keeping in mind 1 frame avi decoder lag )

now I may be 100% wrong but I have no idea any other way to definitively tell. another file I produced with Nic's wmv encoder (using bframes) that I muxed to avi reports the same way.

http://rapidshare.com/files/43365939/vc1_ffdshow_sample.avi.html

Yes you are right your file contains B-Frames. GOP structure - one B one P frame.

Thank you.

[zambelli]

Bond can correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that the "AVI don't play nice with B-frames" theorem only applies to Video for Windows? I've seen plenty of AVI files compressed with VC-1 with B frames, and I don't think they were created using any hacks - the WMV9 encoder certainly doesn't implemented any workarounds specifically for AVI.

Dmitry, have you looked at all the MSDN articles related to WMV and DirectShow?

http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb288660.aspx
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb288667.aspx

http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb331878.aspx

[Dmitry Vergheles]

Bond can correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that the "AVI don't play nice with B-frames" theorem only applies to Video for Windows? I've seen plenty of AVI files compressed with VC-1 with B frames, and I don't think they were created using any hacks - the WMV9 encoder certainly doesn't implemented any workarounds specifically for AVI.

Dmitry, have you looked at all the MSDN articles related to WMV and DirectShow?

http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb288660.aspx
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb288667.aspx

http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb331878.aspx

Hi zambelli,
thanks for the links
No, I did not read this acticles but all the imformation those contain I have been aware of for 3 or four years :)