MKV and 8500 Full Hardware Acceleration

[morph166955]

Intel BOXDP35DPM LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Intel Motherboard

Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 Conroe 2.4GHz LGA 775 Processor Model BX80557E6600

2x Crucial 1GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Desktop Memory Model CT12864AA80E

ASUS EN8600GTS/HTDP/256M GeForce 8600GTS 256MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 HDCP Video Card

Western Digital Raptor WD1500ADFD 150GB 10,000 RPM Serial ATA150 Hard Drive

Sony NEC Optiarc 18X DVD±R DVD Burner with 12X DVD-RAM Write Black SATA Model AD-7170S-0B

Thermaltake Mozart Sx VC7001SNS Silver 0.8 mm SECC Chassis ATX Media Center Computer Case

CORSAIR CMPSU-520HX ATX12V v2.2 and EPS12V 2.91 520W Power Supply


Thats basically the specs for it, I copied that from my other post bout it that I made before I bought it HTPC

[Theliel]

Gspot are a good free Audio/Video Analyzer. He can detect for example codec used by any clip and if your computer have installed the proper codec. he have got some interesting features:

http://www.headbands.com/gspot/index.htm
http://www.headbands.com/gspot/v26x/GSpot270a.zip

Gspot search all your installed codec and filter too, and give you access to property sheet of each of them, or set the merit. The merit are the level of preference of one codec. For example, you can have installed two diferent codec for H264, CoreAVC and Cyberlink. If you want that Cyberlink will be your default h264 decoder (because some player, like WMP, only use the default codec) you must set the merit of Cyberlink H264/AVC decoder higher than CoreAVC or lower CoreAVC Merit.

Open your media with GraphEdit. The default filters used will be the filter that Graphedit show. With this information, open Gspot.

System/List Codecs And other filters

And in the list, search the codecs/filter that you want will be used by default and change the merit RightClick/Change Merit. If you want that one filter never will be used, set merit to lower value. The default codec/filter always will be the codec/filter with higher merit of all codec/filter for the same subtype (mediatype)

FFdshow work a little diferent. If you want use a specific mediatype with ffdshow, the most easy are forcing this in ffdshow video decoder config, and if you want disable ffdshow for specific mediatype, you should disabled in ffdshow too.

GraphEdit are a little programs that give you access to all filters installed in your PC.

Move your Video to the graphedit windows, and automatically graphedit load your default codec chain. You can now choose the filter you want use. EVR are present only in Windows Vista under DirectShow Filter->Enhanced Video Renderer.

[morph166955]

It wont let me reset the filter merit on the enhanced video renderer for some reason...any ideas?

[morph166955]

Ok i just got some really odd results, ill make a longer post later on about them since im running out now

long story short, media player for m2ts files works perfectly with the offloading (4-6% cpu in 35+ mbit/s scenes). however when playing from an mkv file in media player (not media center which does work), the image is completely green! AHHHHHHHH lol.

EDIT: and btw, mkv is not being offloaded in my case either right now. i havent tried to manually set it in graphedit, only straight through media center (which does play although media player doesnt as stated above)

[RaynQuist]

I believe the suggestion was to up the merit on the Cyberlink decoder

EDIT: Nevermind I saw you got it working

[Theliel]

you can't change EVR filter. WMP or WM Center under vista use EVR. If yo want unse EVR in other players, the player must support this new mode. In this moment only Zoomplayer 5.5 alpha and the special EVR edition MPC can work in EVR. if you got a green screen the most probable are you are using VMR.

In this moment i dont have any mkv h264, if you want, upload a sample and i can make a lot of test.

[apatch]

latest modded MPC
http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=170561

you need .net 3.0
if you dont want to install it
http://www.zshare.net/download/2363822cf12890/
copy both dll’s to \windows\system32 and register
evr.dll with regsvr32 - or use the reg_drag&drop.exe

and kmplayer also support EVR, try with these

[RaggedEdge]

Updated to 1.0.90 :)

The 20 FPS remains though...

I was looking at the Pin info on the Enhanced Video Renderer when comparing identical H.264 streams in an MKV and AVI container.

I noticed the following differences:

************** MKV ******************

Pin: Video Out

- Connection media type:

Video: DXVA 1280x528 23.98fps

AM_MEDIA_TYPE:
majortype: MEDIATYPE_Video {73646976-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71}
subtype: MEDIASUBTYPE_NV12 {3231564E-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71}
formattype: FORMAT_VideoInfo2 {F72A76A0-EB0A-11D0-ACE4-0000C0CC16BA}
bFixedSizeSamples: 1
bTemporalCompression: 0
lSampleSize: 518400
cbFormat: 112

VIDEOINFOHEADER:
rcSource: (0,0)-(1280,528)
rcTarget: (0,0)-(1280,528)
dwBitRate: 0
dwBitErrorRate: 0
AvgTimePerFrame: 417083

************* AVI ********************

Pin: Video Out

- Connection media type:

Video: DXVA 1280x528

AM_MEDIA_TYPE:
majortype: MEDIATYPE_Video {73646976-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71}
subtype: MEDIASUBTYPE_NV12 {3231564E-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71}
formattype: FORMAT_VideoInfo2 {F72A76A0-EB0A-11D0-ACE4-0000C0CC16BA}
bFixedSizeSamples: 1
bTemporalCompression: 0
lSampleSize: 1013760
cbFormat: 112

VIDEOINFOHEADER:
rcSource: (0,0)-(1280,528)
rcTarget: (0,0)-(1280,528)
dwBitRate: 0
dwBitErrorRate: 0
AvgTimePerFrame: 0

**************************************

Why is the lSampleSize and AvgTimeForSample different? And, is it of significance to the 20FPS bug?

[hekoheko]

Any news on the 20fps bug, Im diying here. :)

I have 2600XT though, but suffering from same bug.

[jhoff80]

I'd love to see a fix for this 20fps thing too, before I make any purchasing decision. I'm either going to buy a new PC for HTPC only duties, or just get the AGP HD2600 and hold off for at least a year on the new PC.

[RaggedEdge]

Just installed the latest NVidia driver 163.11 Vista 32Bit and the latest Cyberlink PowerDVD Version 3104a.1.

The bug is still there - I guess the only person who can fix this is Haali.

I just hope someone can lend him a 8500/8600 or ATI equivalent card for a few days of testing... I'm beginning to think it maybe more down to the Haali splitter then Cyberlink because the very same data plays great in an AVI container...

[hekoheko]

Just installed the latest NVidia driver 163.11 Vista 32Bit and the latest Cyberlink PowerDVD Version 3104a.1.

The bug is still there - I guess the only person who can fix this is Haali.

I just hope someone can lend him a 8500/8600 or ATI equivalent card for a few days of testing... I'm beginning to think it maybe more down to the Haali splitter then Cyberlink because the very same data plays great in an AVI container...

How did you put h264 stream from MKV to AVI container?

[hekoheko]

Step 1 Take your MKV file run it throught mkv2vfr (command line mkv2vfr name.mkv name.avi)

Step 2 Take the MKV file again and run through mkvguiextract (load the mkv file, and just extract the audio)

Step 3 Take the AVI file and the AC3 and run though avi-mux gui (output settings - AVI ; make rec lists ticked, mp3 and add junk off)


dxva now works.

[oomka]

I did some testing and here are my results:

20fps is there until you disable hardware acceleration (DXVA), as soon as it is disabled 20fps goes away.

1080p mkv produce black screen until you disable hardware acceleration (DXVA), as soon as it is disabled video plays fine.

To me it sounds like a driver NVIDIA issue more than Haali (I cant explain muxing to a differnt container AVI workaround, which does not work for 1080p)

Is it really Haali at fault?

And is there a way to play 1080p mkv with DXVA without black screen?

[hekoheko]

I did some testing and here are my results:

20fps is there until you disable hardware acceleration (DXVA), as soon as it is disabled 20fps goes away.

1080p mkv produce black screen until you disable hardware acceleration (DXVA), as soon as it is disabled video plays fine.

To me it sounds like a driver NVIDIA issue more than Haali (I cant explain muxing to a differnt container AVI workaround, which does not work for 1080p)

Is it really Haali at fault?

And is there a way to play 1080p mkv with DXVA without black screen?

It certainly isnt nvidias driver fault when same errors come with ati catalyst.

I have also tested that h264 transport stream put in to a MKV container works up to 1080p with DXVA.
So the x264 might be the problem.

[oomka]

It certainly isnt nvidias driver fault when same errors come with ati catalyst.

I have also tested that h264 transport stream put in to a MKV container works up to 1080p with DXVA.
So the x264 might be the problem.


On the second note I just realized that I can play some 1080p original tv caps from euro tv in a TS container.

So I think you right about that x264 encode method of 1080p is at fault. But what specific about the 1080p encodes that produces a black screen with DXVA on?

[hekoheko]

On the second note I just realized that I can play some 1080p original tv caps from euro tv in a TS container.

So I think you right about that x264 encode method of 1080p is at fault. But what specific about the 1080p encodes that produces a black screen with DXVA on?

Exactly.

I've found one 720p MKV that works fine with DXVA on, and doesn't slow down, I wish I knew what's different about that specific file.

[oomka]

Do you mind sharing the release name for the 720p that plays with hardware accelelration without stutter? pm maybe?

[plane]

It certainly isnt nvidias driver fault when same errors come with ati catalyst.

I have also tested that h264 transport stream put in to a MKV container works up to 1080p with DXVA.
So the x264 might be the problem.

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1022197#post1022197

x264 b-frame might be one of the problem. This thread seems fixed the mp4 x264 slowdown by forcing direct_pred=temporal(not sure about mkv).

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1023806#post1023806

For the black screen, it sounds like you need to get the latest Splitter 1.7.189.11

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1023991#post1023991

Also, please make sure you use this MP4Box(GPAC version 0.4.5-DEV - compiled by Kurtnoise - Jul 3 2007).

[hekoheko]

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1022197#post1022197

x264 b-frame might be one of the problem. This thread seems fixed the mp4 x264 slowdown by forcing direct_pred=temporal(not sure about mkv).

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1023806#post1023806

For the black screen, it sounds like you need to get the latest Splitter 1.7.189.11

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1023991#post1023991

Also, please make sure you use this MP4Box(GPAC version 0.4.5-DEV - compiled by Kurtnoise - Jul 3 2007).

I have that haali splitter version, 720p=slowdown 1080p=black screen.

Why would I need mp4box? I dont watch mp4's.

[oomka]

I have that haali splitter version, 720p=slowdown 1080p=black screen.

Why would I need mp4box? I dont watch mp4's.

I second that

[plane]

I have that haali splitter version, 720p=slowdown 1080p=black screen.

Why would I need mp4box? I dont watch mp4's.

I know you have some mkv playing fine with DXVA but maybe you can give mp4 a try with the h264 vids you can't play right with mkv(although I think endedup it may still need to re-encode with temporal b-frame if the clip was from x264).

[oomka]

I know you have some mkv playing fine with DXVA but maybe you can give mp4 a try with the h264 vids you can't play right with mkv(although I think endedup it may still need to re-encode with temporal b-frame if the clip was from x264).

I tried extracting from mkv and creating mp4 with the new version of the MP4box, same problem

720p - slowdown,
1080p - black screen

[hekoheko]

As I mentioned before, x264 from MKV put into a AVI container works perfectly.

[jhoff80]

As I mentioned before, x264 from MKV put into a AVI container works perfectly.

Yeah, but remuxing everything I have doesn't seem like a realistic solution for me, so it would be great if we could figure out what exactly is causing the issue.

[RaggedEdge]

My workaround to this really annoying issue is to use MKV2VFR.EXE, which comes with Haali splitter, to produce a video only version of the MKV file.

No I have one fully working video file without audio.

So, I use graphedit to playback both the AVI and the MKV file at the same time, but delete the video render path from the MKV side.

Now I can watch all 720p material with full audio sync.

It's damn annoying to have to do this, because the fix must be trivial if the AVI version works out of the box.

Haali doesn't have access to one of these H.264 capable cards and therefore can't look into the difference between MP4 in an AVI and MKV container...

[oomka]

My workaround to this really annoying issue is to use MKV2VFR.EXE, which comes with Haali splitter, to produce a video only version of the MKV file.

No I have one fully working video file without audio.

So, I use graphedit to playback both the AVI and the MKV file at the same time, but delete the video render path from the MKV side.

Now I can watch all 720p material with full audio sync.

It's damn annoying to have to do this, because the fix must be trivial if the AVI version works out of the box.

Haali doesn't have access to one of these H.264 capable cards and therefore can't look into the difference between MP4 in an AVI and MKV container...

this method does not solve black screen in 1080p reencodes:confused:

[RaggedEdge]

this method does not solve black screen in 1080p reencodes:confused:

Nope - it's just the quickest hack for playing back 720P content with full hardware acceleration.

The fact 1080P doesn't work in a different container, suggests a more serious bug...

[hekoheko]

Nope - it's just the quickest hack for playing back 720P content with full hardware acceleration.

The fact 1080P doesn't work in a different container, suggests a more serious bug...

Even if we get DXVA working, it won't work with subs anyway.
I'm focusing on blu-ray/hd-dvd, coz it's stunning how much better it looks than 1080p MKV.

[morph166955]

Even if we get DXVA working, it won't work with subs anyway.
I'm focusing on blu-ray/hd-dvd, coz it's stunning how much better it looks than 1080p MKV.

you can seriously tell the difference between a 1080p mkv and a 1080p bluray/hddvd? damn youve got a good eye! i've compared the bluray of xmen3 to the mkv I made of it on my projector (granted its a 720p projector but still, its at 90 inches so imperfections are easy to see). I can't tell a bloddy difference and there are points in the bluray that go as high as 45mbit where the mkv doesnt break above 10 at all.

Also to note, the bluray transport stream works with dxva, the mkv here also (as expected) does not. I refuse to use h264 in an avi container. For more info why, search on here as to why people aren't using avi's that much with h264, theres a few really good reasons I'm just not going to get into for brevity right now. I haven't tried to mux it into mp4 format but I'm also skeptical to do this since the audio is in ac3/dts and i dont wanna convert it over to aac so that it works in mp4. I might mux just the video over to see if its working though just for simple curiosity.

[hekoheko]

you can seriously tell the difference between a 1080p mkv and a 1080p bluray/hddvd? damn youve got a good eye! i've compared the bluray of xmen3 to the mkv I made of it on my projector (granted its a 720p projector but still, its at 90 inches so imperfections are easy to see). I can't tell a bloddy difference and there are points in the bluray that go as high as 45mbit where the mkv doesnt break above 10 at all.

Also to note, the bluray transport stream works with dxva, the mkv here also (as expected) does not. I refuse to use h264 in an avi container. For more info why, search on here as to why people aren't using avi's that much with h264, theres a few really good reasons I'm just not going to get into for brevity right now. I haven't tried to mux it into mp4 format but I'm also skeptical to do this since the audio is in ac3/dts and i dont wanna convert it over to aac so that it works in mp4. I might mux just the video over to see if its working though just for simple curiosity.

I have to take my words back, I just checked recent 1080p MKV's, they do look pretty similar.
The difference is so small that it don't mind.
Because using MKV as primary source of material has other benefits. :p

I still would like to get DXVA to MKV since my CPU can't cope those, but until then, 720p ftw.

[morph166955]

i completely agree with getting mkv & dxva working. i just built a new media center for myself about a month ago with a nice shiny new nvidia card in it that I would like to use for a little more then what its doing now. Its kinda cool to pipe a 45mbit stream through it and have 2% cpu usage as opposed to the close to 90% usage when im piping it via mkv.

[arfster]

I have to take my words back, I just checked recent 1080p MKV's, they do look pretty similar.


They do vary a lot. A 1080p 120 min movie made for a DVD5 only has 4.5mbit video bitrate to play with, and won't look that good. At 100 mins and a DVD9 to fit into, there's 11.5mbit - and that's enough to look excellent. It's not even that far off what some commercial discs use. Bluray/HDDVD can look a lot better, but it depends how good the source is.

[ferry1]

This is screaming out to be fixed, what can we do to speed things up, donate money, send Haali a 8400 or what?

[CruNcher]

@ arfster
for many 1080p scenarios 4.5 mbit (120 min of the most source are no problem problematic are 180 min) ) would be enough and HD-DVD,Blu-Ray to DVD5 (HD-DVD,Blu-Ray,PC (unconstrained) ) would look HVS wise still sufficient enough (without grain preservation) im very sure about this, but the whole encoder has to be optimized for this scenario entirely (to be maximal balanced).
I also found ways to lower the complexity of x264 streams @ Decoding (with PV1/PV2) within the code, but i still need to test the efficiency and compression loss (HVS difference) these modifications will result in (i don't want to endup @ ATI Encoder quality :P).

[plane]

This is screaming out to be fixed, what can we do to speed things up, donate money, send Haali a 8400 or what?

http://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.multimedia.matroska.devel
Try report this bug on mkv dev board but I think they already knew it.

Actually, we need to donate a Vista plus PowerDVD Ultra plus 8500?

[RaggedEdge]

http://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.multimedia.matroska.devel
Try report this bug on mkv dev board but I think they already knew it.

Actually, we need to donate a Vista plus PowerDVD Ultra plus 8500?

NVidia is getting all the profits for 8500/8600 sales - they are the ones that should donate it.

However, I suspect the software only decoder guys maybe paying Haali to avoid the fix, so they can continue to make money on the software only solution...

[RaggedEdge]

This is weird...

Using this 1080P MP4 file:

http://trailers.nerodigital.com/Wink_Inc/WG30secSpot_AVC_HDTV.mp4

I can playback fully hardware accelerated 1080P H.264 content using the Haali Splitter and the Cyberlink H.264 Decoder without a single hichup...

Does that mean there is no problem with the Haali splitter or Cyberlink? I.e. the problem is more to do with how the H.264 was encoded?

[KoD]

It means the graphic cards simply were not made to accelerate h264 streams that use certain features or that have certain parameter values. Just like the PSP or any other hardware device, those graphic cards are limited in what they can "accelerate" (read "decode"). I hope that was enlightening.

[RaggedEdge]

It means the graphic cards simply were not made to accelerate h264 streams that use certain features or that have certain parameter values. Just like the PSP or any other hardware device, those graphic cards are limited in what they can "accelerate" (read "decode"). I hope that was enlightening.

You can take the raw H.264 data from a MKV container, and put it straight into an AVI container, and it all just works!

So, I think there are solutions to the 20fps MKV bug, but there does not seem to be a will to fix it...

You maybe right though, these cards have been geared towards HD-DVD and BlueRay decoding, so there is a chance they won't be compliant with out of spec streams. Just won't know for sure until someone like Haali takes a closer look at the actual problem...

[gruven42]

Step 1 Take your MKV file run it throught mkv2vfr (command line mkv2vfr name.mkv name.avi)

Step 2 Take the MKV file again and run through mkvguiextract (load the mkv file, and just extract the audio)

Step 3 Take the AVI file and the AC3 and run though avi-mux gui (output settings - AVI ; make rec lists ticked, mp3 and add junk off)


dxva now works.

I tried this and got the exact same results as the mkv.

[liquidator87]

I don't think the problem is anywhere except in the interaction between h264 stream and decoder...
From all my tests, changing splitter and/or container doesn't solve anything, the problem is that cyberlink codec doesn't handle correctly B-frames with x264 encodes when dxva is enabled... In fact, the only way I found to "solve" this is to entirely re-encode the video w/o B-frames... the result is simply perfect

[hekoheko]

I tried this and got the exact same results as the mkv.

720p mkv works in AVI container! PERIOID!
1080p gives black screen.
This on ATI cards.

BTW there is dude that has some beta nvidia drivers 163. something, he has 8600 I think and every MKV works withouth any tricks.

[liquidator87]

Yes, you were right... Switching to avi seems to work (but why?)

[RaggedEdge]

720p mkv works in AVI container! PERIOID!
1080p gives black screen.
This on ATI cards.

BTW there is dude that has some beta nvidia drivers 163. something, he has 8600 I think and every MKV works withouth any tricks.

Please try to get more info about this dude - if there is a beta driver that fixes this, I'll be over the moon... along with a thousand and one other 8500/8600 users... although, I suspect he's probably just running in software only decode, I guess...

FYI: I'm on the latest official BETA release from NVidia's website, and the problem is still there.

[hekoheko]

Please try to get more info about this dude - if there is a beta driver that fixes this, I'll be over the moon... along with a thousand and one other 8500/8600 users... although, I suspect he's probably just running in software only decode, I guess...

FYI: I'm on the latest official BETA release from NVidia's website, and the problem is still there.

The site is down where I would have quoted the message.
He claims it is working, on Core2Duo T7200, or something, I think it's laptop CPU.

Under 10% CPU, and without DXVA it was something like 30-40%, which I think is too much for such CPU, not sure.

[Trahald]

I use the evr edition of mpc. I get 5% or less usage on my single core chip with my 8500 on mkvs. i just set cyberlink avc decoder to prefered. also disabled vobsub. even with subs turned off, if vobsub gets in the graph it kills the acceleration so setting vobsub direct merit to blocked worked. im using vista 32.

graph is haali --> cyberlink --> evr

am i missing something or should it have been harder? or is it the subs thing?

[RaggedEdge]

I use the evr edition of mpc. I get 5% or less usage on my single core chip with my 8500 on mkvs. i just set cyberlink avc decoder to prefered. also disabled vobsub. even with subs turned off, if vobsub gets in the graph it kills the acceleration so setting vobsub direct merit to blocked worked. im using vista 32.

graph is haali --> cyberlink --> evr

am i missing something or should it have been harder? or is it the subs thing?

You must be in software decode:

Is DXVA enabled in the Cyberlink H.264 Decoder?
Are you using the Vista/.NET EVR renderer or the custom EVR renderer?

I suspect you maybe using the custom EVR, which is software only decode...

Your CPU is probably powerful enough to make the software/hardware performance difference unimportant.

[Trahald]

You must be in software decode:

Is DXVA enabled in the Cyberlink H.264 Decoder?
Are you using the Vista/.NET EVR renderer or the custom EVR renderer?

I suspect you maybe using the custom EVR, which is software only decode...Use DxVA is checked. Renderer is set to EVR (Vista/.Net3)
Your CPU is probably powerful enough to make the software/hardware performance difference unimportant.i have a 3800+ single core that is native 2.4ghz but i actually have it UNDERclocked to 2.0ghz because of my cheap stock cooler.

[RaggedEdge]

Use DxVA is checked. Renderer is set to EVR (Vista/.Net3)
i have a 3800+ single core that is native 2.4ghz but i actually have it UNDERclocked to 2.0ghz because of my cheap stock cooler.

That's really encouraging.

Would you please detail the version of the NVidia driver, MPC Player (+ any custom settings) and Cyberlink PowerDVD etc.

If we can duplicate your success - it would help so many of us who are getting black screens with 1080P content and stutter/jitter (20 fps bug) with 720P content.

In the meantime, I just got this from Cyberlink:

Thank you for contacting CyberLink Online Support.

We understand your concern related with MKV file support.

We regret to inform you that MKV files are not supported by PowerDVD. However, we have again forwarded this concern to the appropriate department for future updates.

Please keep visit www.CyberLink.com for latest updates.

Please feel free to contact us back for any further clarification or for any assistance related to CyberLink Products.