PAL interlaced -> deinterlaced -> too blury

[CdinT]

I have "Dances with Wolves" PAL Interlaced and it's the real stuff interlaced with lines and everything.


I tried swap field in DVD2AVI - it looks the same both ways

I tried in GKnot all 3 options:
SmartDeinterlace(2,15,true,true,true) - most blury result

VerticalReduceBy2 - acceptable

GreedyHMA(0,0,1,0,0,0,0,0)
and
GreedyHMA(1,0,1,0,0,0,0,0)
and
GreedyHMA(1,0,1,0,1,0,0,0) - less blury but more jerky (same with all 3 settings)

Then i tried TMPGenc 2.00.29.113
Deinterlace (Double)

From all this VerticalReduceBy2 is the best but even with this it doesn't look good.

Isn't there something else to be done?

[manono]

Hi-for PAL Film source movies (such as Dances With Wolves), I believe the proper setting would be GreedyHMA(1,0,2,0,0,0,0,120), or GreedyHMA(1,0,2,0,1,0,0,120), depending on whether or not you want the vertical filter. The 120 goes in because trbarry says there's something wrong with the default 2 (for PAL), or 5 (for NTSC). With any luck, the jerkiness should be gone, although you may be sick of playing with it already.

[CdinT]

OK, thanks for reply I will try this today.

[manono]

Hi-OK-I hope it works for you. By the way, are you using a Bilinear Resize? That may make it blurry all by itself. If you are, perhaps some form of Bicubic resize would be better. Also, if the bit rate is too low, it may come out kind of blurry (are you doing it for 1 CD or 2)? Evidently you have really good eyes.

And this is PAL, right, so of course you didn't use Force Film in DVD2AVI?

[Psyche]

Almost every PAL source I have come across (and I only treat PAL) which looked interlaced, in reality wasn't. It was really a Field Phase offset problem.
For example, if you have a progressive source and look at it as if it was interlaces it look this way:

aA bB cC dD eE ...

Where the lowercase letter is the first field and the uppercase the second one. When you have a field phase prob it looks like this:

xa Ab Bc Cd De Ef ...

and so on, as you see, if you think a little, this will look like interlaced in a progressive monitor, and changing field order will not do neither.

Try adding this little script to your avs to see if it's this problem (of course before resizing):

SeparateFields
Trim(1,0)
Weave

This will discard the first field and get the correct phase. You may need to change the field order too, you do this with ComplementParity in between SeparateFields and Trim.

Hope this helps. (WOW! I feel quite verbose today! :D )

[LotharZ]

Im having the same problem that CdinT with a PAL movie, and Im getting the same results with the DeInterlace options. I made a try with the options:
GreedyHMA(1,0,2,0,0,0,0,120) or GreedyHMA(1,0,2,0,1,0,0,120)
and i get a better quality but with some little jerkiness sometimes. I tried to put GreedyHMA before and after the Crop but i get always the same result.
I also tried "Bob" option but with this i get more jerkiness than with GreedyHMA(1,0,2,0,0,0,0,120).

Any solution for this??????

oh other thing, I proved the Psyche solution but dont work at least for me.

thx & sorry for my english :P

[manono]

I'm sorry to hear that, LotharZ. And CdinT will probably report the same thing. So what you do is go down to the AviSynth Forum where the creator (trbarry) hangs out and you scold him, and tell him to get back to work to improve GreedyHMA, and that he has been too lazy recently (actually, before too long, we all may see a newer and better version).

I guess none of these are perfect, but the deinterlacers degrade the quality, and I'm personally willing to put up with some little jerkiness to keep a higher quality (but I realize I'm not in the majority on that one).

[CdinT]

Originally posted by manono
Hi-OK-I hope it works for you. By the way, are you using a Bilinear Resize? That may make it blurry all by itself. If you are, perhaps some form of Bicubic resize would be better. Also, if the bit rate is too low, it may come out kind of blurry (are you doing it for 1 CD or 2)? Evidently you have really good eyes.
And this is PAL, right, so of course you didn't use Force Film in DVD2AVI?
I guess none of these are perfect, but the deinterlacers degrade the quality, and I'm personally willing to put up with some little jerkiness to keep a higher quality (but I realize I'm not in the majority on that one).
Originally posted by Psyche
Try adding this little script to your avs to see if it's this problem (of course before resizing):
SeparateFields
Trim(1,0)
Weave
This will discard the first field and get the correct phase. You may need to change the field order too, you do this with ComplementParity in between SeparateFields and Trim.

You are right I've should have give more details.

Movie is about 180 minutes PAL 16:9
Resolution: 576x240
Resize: Neutral Bicubic
Filter: Little Noise
Sound: 158MB 128kbs ABR
Movie: 1214MB -> 917kbs
I guess it's enough bitrate.
and of course I didn't use forcefilm :p

And maybe I should try to explain better the "blur" thingy cause it could not be exctly the good word for it.
So when the image is moving from left to right or right to left :) people seem to have some trails. This doesn't happend when is filmed from up to down or is almost still. Now the effect of this on my eyes is that in 10 minutes they are tired and some strange salty liquid is starting to pour from them. :D
On the other hand I always prefer this to the jerkiness. And now the definition for "jerky" in my opinion: when the image does not run smooth it hops for a fraction of moment like in a movie made with decimate. And I personally can not view a film made with decimate. It just drives me crazy. Really :)

Since you and Psyche gave me those advices I've also tried:
(1,0,2,0,0,0,0,120)
(1,0,2,0,1,0,0,120)
(1,0,2,0,0,0,0,0)
(1,0,2,0,1,0,0,0)

and

SeparateFields
Trim(1,0)
Weave

SeparateFields
Trim(1,0)
Weave
+
Smart Deinterlacer

SeparateFields
ComplementParity
Trim(1,0)
Weave

And even if from some of these settings the image was more sharp it always was jerky.

So in conclusion I stick with VerticalReduceby2 and prey to have mostly still and vertical shots in the movie :D