AMD DDR vs P4 RDRAM

[goldfinger]

I am going to buy a new pc, and it is important that it is fast in videoencoding (TMPGEnc and cinema craft).

Should I buy Athlon (amd) XP1900 with DDR ram or Intel 2GHZ, with RDram. (i am thinking about 1 gig of ram)

I know that the AMD processor is fast, but intels rdram is faster than ddr ram.

My question: Is there any point putting a lot of money into P4/rdram, is the ram used to speed up the encoding process, or should I stick to AMD. IS THE TYPE OF RAM IMPORTANT IN THIS KIND OF WORK?

[phuntyme]

If you are looking for absolute fastest... I think you need something i850 based with 512MB or more RDRAM.

This is a good test to see how much I know ;)

[Doom9]

there's good ddr platforms for the p4 as well.. at a much lower cost than rdram plus you get the added benefit of not supporting rambus which is about the most evil corporation on this planet.

[mr00bill]

Even though RAMBUS is very evil, RD & a P4 will beat the athlon system. :(

[Milkman Dan]

Depends on your definition of 'beats.'

If I paid $500 more, total, for the P4 system, and it was 3-4fps faster than the Athlon (in just that one application), I wouldn't call that 'beating.' I'd call that a waste of money. 'Cause the P4 sucks just about everywhere else.

Unless of course, it's not your money. In which case, go right ahead.

And while RDRAM may be 'faster' (higher bandwidth, but really lousy latency), it doesn't really translate into better performance. And that really makes it not faster. :p

[Doom9]

and the actual performance difference between ddr and rambus is more like 1-2fps in the best case (http://www4.tomshardware.com/mainboard/01q4/011217/i845d-07.html). Plus.. the price difference between DDR & AMD and P4 & Rambus is so large that if you don't go for the fastest amd you can throw in a 2nd chip for the same price and then you see AMD kicking major Intel butt ;)

[phuntyme]

Originally posted by goldfinger
I am going to buy a new pc, and it is important that it is fast in videoencoding (TMPGEnc and cinema craft).

So we are literally talking about performance and not "VALUE". So doesn't this mean we should be recommending the P4 platform?

[xzquala]

under no circumstance should we ever reccommend the p4 platform.

of course that is stricly personal preferance.

[Kedirekin]

About a year ago, when I was looking into getting a new PC, I read that PC2100 DDR actually had more data bandwidth than single-channel PC800 rambus. Single-channel PC800 was about the same speed as PC1600 DDR, and PC600 rambus (which is what was common at the time) was slightly slower than SDRAM. What a travesty that Intel foisted this off on consumers.

On the other hand, I assume dual-channel rambus motherboards are out by now. The question is, are they common and are they inexpensive. If dual-channel is only being used on expensive server motherboards, there is *nothing* to recommend rambus.

[suomynon]

My own experience has me leaning toward AMD.

Yeah, dual channel PC800 RDRAM should offer 3.2 GB/s of bandwidth, which is more than the single channel DDR 266 offered by AMD which only comes in at 2.1 GB/s. (Though now there are nVidia nForce 420 boards with 4.2 GB/s of bandwidth for AMD, but that's another story.)

Since 3.2 is bigger than 2.1, you'd think ya gotta go with Intel...

HOWEVER, according to this web site (http://www.inqst.com/articles/p4bandwidth/p4bandwidthmain.htm) Intel uses that bandwidth very inefficiently...And therefore AMD ends up actually getting more out of their 2.1 GB/s than Intel gets out of 3.2.

So, from the web reviews I've read and my own experience, it seems as if you end up getting equal or better performance from AMD, and you certainly get it at a better price.

Just my two cents.

[Milkman Dan]

Originally posted by phuntyme


So we are literally talking about performance and not "VALUE". So doesn't this mean we should be recommending the P4 platform?

See, the point you're missing is that is he spends less on the CPU/motherboard/RAM combination, getting practically the same perfomance, it means he can re-invest the money elsewhere. A SCSI subsystem, or a nice hardware MPEG-2 capture card, or the like. See what I mean? Better value means a better overall system.

[xzquala]

Originally posted by goldfinger
My question: Is there any point putting a lot of money into P4/rdram, is the ram used to speed up the encoding process, or should I stick to AMD. IS THE TYPE OF RAM IMPORTANT IN THIS KIND OF WORK?

answer: no, not really. proc speed is really more important than anything else.

[chemmajik]

Save a buck, get a Athlon XP2000+ add a RAID ATA-100 7200rpm & thats more then enough speed for anything you can throw at it. Thoroughbred is about to be released to, which will run even faster and wont cost 600bucks like the 2.2 Ghz NW.

[legman]

I would go with the intel 850gb.

It's damn bullet proof. The amd boards are a headache.
They are both really fast. Fast means fast all the time. Not just for 5 mins and tinkering with the system for 2 more weeks to get out 1 fps. lol

You will be fast enough to cap full res with either.

Dual processers have many issues that are not worth it.

You will not have mem leaks and video incompatibalities with the intel board.

I do both video and CAD. The intel system is the better performer all around. You may be able to squeeze a bit more speed out of the amd, if the code is optimized for it, but you have to spend the time tweaking this and that. Not worth it for 5 mins you were on the phone or while you are asleep.

After transcoding, you will need to use your box for other things.


If you plan to get a REAL video card, 700 bucks or better, there is no choice but the intel board. This I know from experience.

Price? Hmmm $1000 bucks one way or another means nothing in having a reliable box. Maybe it is to a collage kid, but not me.

When I go to work, time is money and I stand behind the 850gb board by intel. Easily the most trouble free kick ass board I have ever used. JMHO

[diji1]

You will not have mem leaks... with the intel board

Eh... ?? Isn't that a [ poorly written ] software issue rather than a hardware issue ??

Could you explain if you think i am wrong pls.

[Doom9]

actually.. from all the nasty sblive and nvidia issues you keep hearing the name intel also pops up.. these problems are not only related to amd/via solutions. For instance.. the 23.11 detonator drivers are known to cause severe problems on both intel and amd platforms, sblive crackling has been observed on both intel and via chipsets.. that doesn't necessarily means it has to happen, it only occurrs on a very small percentage of computers but it still can happen. I've had boards based on VIA KT133, KT133A, KT266 and KT266A, with various SBLives on them (SBLive Value, SBLive 5.1 Value, Audigy Value) with no problems whatsoever (my crackling was due to ram & mb incompatibilities, the store knew about them but preferred not to tell me until I called the $2/minute hotline... sobs) and the 23.11 detonator drivers work fine on 2 amd/via based computers I have.

and yes.. memory leaks are caused by software.. the hardware doesn't just lose track of which memory it allocated.. it's software that mallocs a certain memory area but then doesn't dealloc it after it's no longer in use that will lead to memory leaks

[diji1]

Hi,

...memory leaks are caused by software...

Indeed.

I'm sorry if this is rather common knowledge by now, but for anybody that doesn't know:

DirectX 8.0 was released with a small "bug" ( well, it's not a bug actually, it's pretty much slackmindedness by someone ).

The sound debug level in dx 8 was left at medium output. I read this causes various issues, with me it was causing slight cracklings and other wierd sounds with my sblive value plus my mouse was playing up, couple of my mates had the same issue.

Its very easy to fix - just dl a control panel applet from somewhere, got mine from voodooextreme, r.i.p....

If anybody wants and can't find ill upload it for ppl - just say the word.

[LotionBoy]

I've had massive issues with the i850 with RDRAM at work. Including one workstation that pretty much wouldn't work for an entire semester even with Dell technicians working on it. So I wouldn't say it is a rock-stable solution.
I can however, report that my Tyan Tiger MP with two Athlon MP 1800+ and the Elsa Gloria DCC is pretty much stable as a giant rock. :-) And it runs Maya and 3D Max like a beast. Oh yeah, and I get close to 40 fps in Nandub.

LotionBoy

[legman]

In defense of my position, lol
Mem leaks due occure because of software, it is just software for many pro appz are made for intel first and therfore have had thier bugs worked out.

This is most important in drivers! Like video drivers for good video cards. I really don't think any of you have dealt with this issue or you would be a bit more understanding of what I have been talking about.

It is real simple; the good video cards leave ^%$^$^%$ everywhere on amd boxes.

If you are not using a good video card, then who cares.

And lotionboy,
You tyan tigir is solid as a rock with that gloria, because I sent them my gloria card to fix their damn boards. Don't believe me, ask kevin, the customer service manager.

If your dell does not preform, then that is your fault for buying a dell.

[omol]

Originally posted by legman
Mem leaks due occure because of software, it is just software for many pro appz are made for intel first and therfore have had thier bugs worked out.

As long as you could directly manipulate pointer in your programming language, your .exe/.dll/.sys etc will have mem leak or potential risk of mem leak. Software programmed with these lang runs on same ISA but different CPU will not be magically turned into mem leak immue.

regards,
omol

[goldfinger]

Lotionboy wrote this:

"I can however, report that my Tyan Tiger MP with two Athlon MP 1800+ and the Elsa Gloria DCC is pretty much stable as a giant rock. :-)"

I think I will go for something like this...

What speed do you get in cinema craft under dvd2svcd?

Do you have any problems with CPU's going warm?

And to all of you, thanks for many great answers.

Gold

[Servo]

Originally posted by Doom9
the price difference between DDR & AMD and P4 & Rambus is so large that if you don't go for the fastest amd you can throw in a 2nd chip for the same price and then you see AMD kicking major Intel butt ;) Have you looked at prices lately? I don't like to waste money any more than the next guy, but is a $10-$20 difference for a 256MB module *really* that large? If you're on that tight of a budget, you're probably in trouble already. http://www.pricewatch.com

[wmansir]

I think he is refering to the price of the whole setup, CPU+MEM+MB. For only slightly more than a standard intel+rambus setup, you could get a duel AMD setup that would kick a**.

[StriderGT]

Bugs and incompatibilities are inherit to every new hardware -and its accompanying drivers- out there... They donn't have the time to track down everything, bearing in mind the frenzy product cycles we all observe. VIA though leads the pack in terms of weird issues (their south bridges have really gone south, they don't even recomend their own driver updates all-or-none:use it only if absolutely neccesary!?!). But its a matter of mere luck whether u will be the next guy phoning the tech-support. Maybe if you stick to real common solutions would lessen the propabilities of things going wrong... (Common is Nvidia, ATI and not SIS in the graphics field or Intel, VIA and not ALI in the chipset ballgame, though i don't have anything against those companies)
If you ve got money to burn NW2.2 plus RDRAM is the fastest single thing out there and the dual Athlons MP do kick serious ass. Both systems though excell in the wow factor than anywhere else, especially if you are not a pro (CAD, 3D and such guys get off my back :-)
PS. The 23.11 fiasco proved that there is no safe bet company, you just buy and hope...

[legman]

One mort important fact that I forgot about:

If you are planning to use the Divxplus application with the hollywoodplus decoder card's tv out with an AMD cpu, you can forget it. Only Intel cpu's works.

The tv out quality of the h+ decoder card is the best I have seen. Divx movies look great on the tv with this. Better then scan converters, ati cards, and gforce 1/2 tv out cards.

If you want the best divx on your tv, you will have to buy intel.
I think transcoding speed is important, but watching movies is important also. The H+ is great for dvd decoding (the best and cheap) and has a great tv out chip.

[Emp3r0r]

Anybody ever get that Divx+ to work in XP?

[smokeslikeapoet]

I say go with the AMD DDR combo and use the money you save for a RAID 0, or better yet, RAID 5 array. Some of the slowness I've seen with my computer is due to disk transfer speeds. Good Luck.