T2 Extreme: blocky image quality

[David16k]

I installed DVD Rebuilder for the first time yesterday together with CCE SP 2.67. I then made a full DVD5 (including all subs, audio, extra's) backup of the DVD9 version of Chinatown. The quality was PERFECT. I didn't sacrifice any quality of the extra's for the full movie, but everything still looked great.

Today I tried to make a DVD5 backup of my T2 Extreme DVD9 movie-disk with the EXACT same settings.

This is what I kept in the backup version:
- Full movie (6834MB) + 3 AC3 audio streams (movie stream and (possibly) 2 commentary streams) + 3 subtitles (English, English, Unknown)
- Extra #1 (298MB) without audio streams or subs
- Extra #2 (829MB) without audio streams or subs

The process went perfectly fine, no errors, nothing.

Then I ran the new DVD5. The IQ immediatelly looked great, the intro's, the menu's, etc, but then I looked at the full movie itself.

It was incredibly blocky! Everytime the camera or an object moved it looked like I was watching the LEGO version of T2.

Here is a screenshot comparison:

Original DVD9
http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/8761/t2rc2.jpg

DVD5 backup
http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/7395/t1sl0.jpg

Why is this happening? Should I have removed more stuff from the DVD9 version?

The important information from the rebuilder.txt:
- Detected ANGLE and/or INTERLEAVING on source.
[16:30:37] One Click encoding activated...
-----------------
[16:30:38] Phase I, PREPARATION started.
- VTS_02: 3.418.879 sectors.
-- ANGLE and/or INTERLEAVING is present.
-- Scanning and writing .D2V file
-- Processed 229.328 frames.
-- Building .AVS and .ECL files
- VTS_08: 30.199 sectors.
-- Scanning and writing .D2V file
-- Processed 361 frames.
-- Building .AVS and .ECL files
- VTS_09: 69.287 sectors.
-- Scanning and writing .D2V file
-- Processed 4.742 frames.
-- Building .AVS and .ECL files
- Reduction Level for DVD-5: 25,2%
- Overall Bitrate : 1.059Kbs
- Space for Video : 1.264.312KB
- HIGH/LOW/AVERAGE Cell Bitrates: 6.142/600/1.059 Kbs
[16:32:46] Phase I, PREPARATION completed in 2 minutes.
[16:32:46] Phase II ENCODING started
- Creating M2V for VTS_02 segment 0


Snip...


- Creating M2V for VTS_09 segment 3
[18:01:09] Phase II ENCODING completed in 89 minutes.
[18:01:09] Phase III, REBUILD started.
- Copying IFO, BUP, and unaltered files...
- Processing VTS_02
- Reading/processing TMAP table...
- Rebuilding segment 0 VOBID: 1 CELLID: 1


Snip...


- Rebuilding segment 3 VOBID: 4 CELLID: 1
- Updating NAVPACKS for VOBID_04
- Updated VTS_C_ADT.
- Updated VTS_VOBU_ADMAP.
- Updated IFO: VTS_09_0.IFO
- Updating TMAP table...
Correcting VTS Sectors...
[18:11:25] Phase III, REBUILD completed in 10 minutes.

Done.
[18:11:25] PREPARE/ENCODE/REBUILD completed in 101 min.

[FilipeAmadeuO]

The answer is that you have an reduction Level for DVD-5 of 25,2%. So it´s perfectly normal that you don´t have very good quality.
You should remove more audios or extras if you would like to have better quality.

[David16k]

I wanted to remove the extra's completely, but I don't see any option in DVD Rebuilder to deselect the other 2 VTS's. Is it possible in DVD Rebuilder?

[gizzin]

That's a really low bitrate thats like VCD quality heh. To obtain good quality 3,000 avg bitrate and over would be a safe bet.

[David16k]

It seems DVD Rebuilder doesn't have an option to deselect certain VTS's. Would it help if I'd remove those VTS's from the DVD9 VIDEO_TS folder?

[rendez2k]

Assuming you have Pro, take DVD-RB out of one-click mode, then run Prepare. Using the Preview/Edit tab you can blank anything you don't want. As stated, average bitrate should be 3000 or above. Then hit Rebuild to complete. Although thats the safest way, theres other tools like Vob Blanker (free) and my favourite, DVDReMake (not free!).

[mc2man]

This is a title that should be done in movie only and with some preprocessing to remove the the ilvu segments. For a whole disc you'd need to enable menu encoding as most of the extra's are seen as menu's. complete disc is around 45% reduction with nothing removed

[Voodoochild]

T2 amazing movie as it is (I bought the original). Can not be compressed to DVD-5 even not in movie only mode without a massive lost of quality. Sorry. This movie is full of scene demanding the higher bitrate that can possibly be. I tried it with 55% compression and the result was awful!! . I've done a lot of backups with DVD-RB and I can tell with a great confidence it is the best there is out there. But that the one movie I couldn't do...

[blutach]

Consider DVD Remake Pro (http://www.dimadsoft.com/dvdremakepro/index.php) to remove ILVUs as mc2man has said (it can also remove unwanted audio and subtitle streams (of course, so can DVDRB) and junk like FBI warnings etc).

Maybe also consider doing a movie only backup.

Regards

[JohnGalt]

You also might try a light denoising filter. If you're using RB Pro, go to the Options tab, then open the Filter Editor, and add the line:

Undot()

You'll lose some detail, but it will make the title more compressible.

[techreactor]

Bitrates are too low, compression is too high, with that in mind, I think you got a decent result.

Remove all extras, keep only the required Menus (extra menus can be blanked, stilled), use VObblanker to achieve this task but its easier with DVD remake pro..

[blutach]

@techreactor - VobBlanker can not remove ILVUs. In fact it will refuse to process VTSs containing ILVUs.

Regards

[techreactor]

Ops! overlooked that detail !!

[Rippraff]

@techreactor - VobBlanker can not remove ILVUs. In fact it will refuse to process VTSs containing ILVUs.
Right Blu, but if it's a multiangle title you can use del_angles (comes with Vobblanker) in front. ;)

Cu Rippraff

[blutach]

True :)

Regards

[RickA]

Another (more simpler, imho) option would be to use DVDShrink in Reauthor mode after you have ripped everything to hard drive. Pull out the movie only with the one soundtrack you want into file folder mode with no compression. Then run that thru DVDRB. That will trim out well over a gig of extras which is eating up precious compression space for the movie.

Cheers

[steptoe]

I agree with that method, its what I use for huge movies but don't want all the rubbish or extras that go with it, plus it means I can boost teh bitrate further by starting the movie earlier by stripping the useless crap you get at the start of movies and also the end



I have also started to use VOBBlanker as well on episode DVDs to strip or cut the rubbish that you get from series that have basically been transferred straight to DVD from the master tapes, like the countdown from the start of each episode

VOBBlanker is very good at that, and has better basic editing functions than DVd Shrink

[RickA]

VOBBlanker is another good option. I find that with episodic dvds I tend to watch them in order most of the time. So I use DVDShrink in Reathor mode and split them out over two discs when needed. Discs are cheap so why compress 6 (for example) episodes when I can put 3 episodes on a disc at full quality. True I have no menu's but that does not bother me. If I want to skip an episode it is merely a few remote clicks away.

Best of luck on the T2 dub, hopefully at least one of our strategies will work for you.

Cheers

[jamewoong]

Yes, I would like to get an answer too if you guys know it. I didn't encounter that problem before (it was a perfect couple DVD Rebuilder 1.12 + Procoder). Recently, I notice that, after using DVD Rebuilder 1.25, I encode a DVD-9 to DVD-5 and got some blocky image. It happens few times in a DVD. No filters is enable.

Below is the result of the image:
http://i14.tinypic.com/4lne48z.jpg
http://i7.tinypic.com/53yw6fo.jpg

You can see the some "block" in the picture. I've encoded upto 5 DVD and though it was perfect, but when I analyse them with my DVD player, the result is frustrating! Wasted so much time to encode...

Does anyone know where the problem come from (DVD Rebuilder or the encoder)?

[kumi]

David16k: Do you have a copy of ProCoder Express or ProCoder 2? If you don't, I believe there's a trial version of ProCoder Express out there that works with DVD-Rebuilder (search the forum). I suggest comparing it to CCE's output. You might be pleasantly surprised.

jamewoong: Does your EclPro.ini file contain the following line?Alwaysframe=0

If so, I suggest you change it toAlwaysframe=1

It has been reported that field-based encoding causes compatibility problems in certain cases. I've had issues myself, with Alwaysframe=0.

[jamewoong]

jamewoong: Does your EclPro.ini file contain the following line?

Alwaysframe=0

If so, I suggest you change it to

Alwaysframe=1


No, it doesn't (alwaysframe is already set to 1):

[Quality]
Quality=4
AutoParameters=0
AlwaysGOP15=0
Alwaysframe=1
[Debug]
StrictGOPBrateControl=0

Anything else that can lift this matter? It happens randomly. I've encoded a same DVD-9 twice and the "broken" images were different from both encoding - the blocky image is still there. It jumps out like a glitch...

Between, I leave my PC during the encode... So, it's weird that a such problem occurs. Could it be from the DVD Rebuilder 1.25?

Anyway, thanks for the help!

[jdobbs]

Definitely not from v1.25... unless it's a hacked version -- the patching I've seen is really crazy and it's hard to figure out exactly how it might affect output. But my guess is that this is more likely related to ProCoder than DVD-RB.

[Edit] If it were within DVD-RB it wouldn't happen differently when you run it more than once against the same source... as the information passed to the encoder by DVD-RB wouldn't be different from one run to another.

[Boulder]

That could easily be checked by using a different encoder such as HC.

[manono]

It happens randomly. I've encoded a same DVD-9 twice and the "broken" images were different from both encoding - the blocky image is still there. It jumps out like a glitch...
I had similar random corruption once when I had a stick of memory go bad. You might run Memtest86 to see if you get any errors:

http://www.memtest86.com/

[jamewoong]

That could easily be checked by using a different encoder such as HC.

EDIT: The problem is solved... Check below.

[jdobbs]

I've always been happy with CCE output. My experience has been that ProCoder seems to soften the image a little more to lose noise at low bitrates. Some folks would rather have that and prefer ProCoder -- but I like sharpness in my output.

[jamewoong]

Omg... Why a such thing could happen to me??? Grrr...!!!!!!!!!!

The problem wasn't from DVD Rebuilder or any encoders!!! As I'm not an expert, so I don't know where the problem is from.

I used my second PC (more powerful, but no speaker) with a 19'' LCD to encode and the first one (main PC) to watch and test. In the 1st PC, a 17'' flat monitor is used.

After encoding few DVDs and throw them away because I thought it was a bad encoding - wasting few weeks... Surrendly, I check it with my second PC (too lazy to test with first PC after a whole day trying to find the error) and notice that the blocky/pixelation wasn't present - THIS IS WEIRD! So, I check again with my 1st PC and the blocky picture is there!!! It could be a problem of codec or something else... Not a memory problem.

Summary:
2nd PC (used to encode) - No blocky picture/pixelation not found!
1st (used to test) - blocky picture/pixelation found!

Anyway, I posted this up because people can get the same thing... So, if you encounter this problem, test it with another PC before getting shocked and throw your stuffs away like I did! LOL

Anyway, I'm happy that I've found the error. :) What a stupid mistake that waste me so much time! keke