Can the in memory key searching trick for AACS cracking be used on CPRM cracking?

[Balwyn]

Why is watermark a problem? Once you rip the audio into uncompressed format, you can play it in any player that does not check the presence of watermark (Foobar, iPOD, ...). It is a problem only if you want to burn it to DVD-A disc and play with the DVD-A player, but why would you want to do that if you have the original disc?

Your point is valid for PC playback, but I prefer the sound of my DVD-A player and sound system. My kids have already scratched some of my original discs, some of which are now unplayable and irreplaceable. As a child health preservation strategy, I wish to play only DVD-A copies and allow them to suffer the damage.

[Balwyn]

even with that paper on watermarl removing there is no tool to do so.

yep they will play on pc


you can also author the audio into the DVD-Video zone with nice menus, etc....that will work perfectly as well. Since in DVD-Video zone DVD-A players will not care about watermark

The ripped multichannel wav files play nicely on the PC.

Regarding your suggestion to put the nice audio in the video zone, I presume you are referring to making DTS encoded VOBs rather than putting AOBs into the Video_TS folder ?

[ron spencer]

no...use the PCM....no need to convert to DTS. You cannot put AOB into Video_TS

[Balwyn]

no...use the PCM....no need to convert to DTS. You cannot put AOB into Video_TS

Thanks for the reply. But wont the PCM will be limited to stereo only ? The sound from my DVD-A's is 5.1, hence the DTS proposal.

[ron spencer]

only limit pertains to bitrate in DVD-V....so use 0-GOP video (or something like DVDLab's audio feature) and away you go

[Balwyn]

only limit pertains to bitrate in DVD-V....so use 0-GOP video (or something like DVDLab's audio feature) and away you go

Ron, I will give it a go as you suggest. Thanks for the idea

[abcx]

no...use the PCM....no need to convert to DTS. You cannot put AOB into Video_TSSome bit-depth/sample rate combinations (like 5.1 96khz/24bit) need a higher bitrate than that supported by the DVD-V spec (which is 9.6 Mbps IIRC). So what you're saying doesn't always work...

Anyway, I belong to the rare breed of audiophiles who are still interested in this dying format. I've used the WinDVD tools many times and have copies of them that I can send links to anyone via PM. But I agree with previous posters that cracking CPPM/CPRM right now would be rather superfluous since the WinDVD hack works quite well. If people want to work on something, they should try circumventing the water-marking technology...if anyone is interested (arenzami?) in this, I can help provide source material, but I lack the technical knowledge to actually do this myself or help.

[evdberg]

^^^ Actually cracking CPPM/CPRM would be rather superfluous since it already has been done in the past ... see proof provided by mommyman above.

[HyperHacker]

I disagree about watermarking....there is enough evidence (see hydrogen audio) to show that if not done properly the watermarking will degrade the audio...this may not be a great consquence for a movie, but for music this is not good.It may also be a problem to us audophiles who can, in fact, hear the difference between FLAC and 320kbps MP3. Just because the people who made it can't hear it, doesn't mean nobody can.

[alstoneb]

how u doing reading you notes very help full how ever i found a small prob with playing my copy on my home systems get a msg saying no disc and c-13 i am using all the programs that i found on here not sure wut cause it it would play on my pc now but not my home system any ideas asking for some help thnk you the stone

[SvT]

how u doing reading you notes very help full how ever i found a small prob with playing my copy on my home systems get a msg saying no disc and c-13 i am using all the programs that i found on here not sure wut cause it it would play on my pc now but not my home system any ideas asking for some help thnk you the stone

Sound like your SAP isn't compatible with the CD/DVD you're using (C-13).

What brand/type of SAP are we talking about ?

[abcx]

^^^ Actually cracking CPPM/CPRM would be rather superfluous since it already has been done in the past ... see proof provided by mommyman above.Just looked at it. (Note to self: read the thread properly next time, you moron). I had no idea that CPPM was so comprehensively cracked. I'm on some online communities where we played around with the WinDVD hack and all the associated software like the Surcode MLP decoder, DigiOn Audio, DVDARipper etc., but nobody had heard of this. I wonder who wrote the proof of concept and when - I doubt it is MaximA (the guy who wrote the WinDVD hack). I'm really surprised that it managed to remain unknown for so long...

[HyperHacker]

(Note to self: read the thread properly next time, you moron).Rule 4! ;)

[abcx]

Rule 4! ;)But I'm calling myself a moron. Surely, I can do that?

[paradynamic]

link: http://rapidshare.com/files/44120246/adv.rar.html
archive password: n3tL4b%E2k@rU

command example:
dvdcpxm.exe D:\AUDIO_TS\ATS_01_1.AOB C:\dvda_rip

the new tool can decrypt CPRM/CPPM protected video and audio, i.e. both CPRM/CPPM protected AOBs and VOBs

[KillaByte]

Nice one! :thanks:

Now all we need is a free / open source MLP decoder and Bam! - no more dependencies on WinDVD ;)

[abcx]

Nice one! :thanks:

Now all we need is a free / open source MLP decoder and Bam! - no more dependencies on WinDVD ;)Though not open source/free, Surcode MLP Encoder (yes, the encoder) and DigiOn Audio (only handles stereo) do the jobs you mention. There's a work-around for DiscWelder chrome to decode MLP files too...I doubt that we'll get an open-source MLP decoder because of the format's proprietary nature. What we really need now is a way to get rid of the watermarks.

[jolson]

I will try to dig up the "Verance Removal Tool" i got a year or so ago, had no chance to try it out so I don't know if it works.

[tteich]

I will try to dig up the "Verance Removal Tool" i got a year or so ago, had no chance to try it out so I don't know if it works.
This would be a great start. I own a fair number of DVD-A's but am afraid of the day my DVD-Audio player (Technics DVD-A10) stops working. Therefor I've been following the DVD-A story for some time now.

Defending the Verance watermark was discussed in the Craver paper (linked above), and aim of the SDMI challenge. The method which lead to success was to change the audio data and introduce little time variations. The simple program which they were using (tinywarp.c) was later on filed under judicial seal by the court. Here is an entry for further reading: http://features.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/11/30/1739226

There is a project which develops a software to author (legally) DVD-A's. See here: http://dvd-audio.sourceforge.net/ What they are still missing is a MLP encoder/decoder solution. So to make backup copies of our beloved DVD-Audios we can now
- rip the contents
- remove CPPM

What's still needed is:
- MLP decoding
- watermark removal (or attack using Feltens/Cravers tinywarp.c)
- MLP re-encoding
- DVD-A authoring

Watermark removal would be needed if we want to make backup copies work on DVD-Audio players. Interestingly, the mentioned Technics DVD-A10 does not contain a verance detector, but any other (later) model does. Following recent press releases about AACS and HD media, they will use watermarking again (a Verance based scheme, if I'm not completely wrong), so it's increasingly interesting to be prepared...

[jackchen]

though most people here talk about DVD audio decrypting, the orignal thought of me is to decrypt the content recorded from HDTV broadcasting. Some blueray HDTV recorders record the HDTV in CPRM disk (blue ray or DVD). a free decrypter is a good way to get the original TS or H264 stream. Though there are other ways to do it, but the have a CPRM/CPPM decrypter will be a good way, too.

[abcx]

Defending the Verance watermark was discussed in the Craver paper (linked above), and aim of the SDMI challenge. The method which lead to success was to change the audio data and introduce little time variations. The simple program which they were using (tinywarp.c) was later on filed under judicial seal by the court. Here is an entry for further reading: http://features.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/11/30/1739226
Hmm, interesting reading. I am not a lawyer, but if the case was dismissed, doesn't the judicial seal on the code ought to be removed too? I'm going to try writing to Felten directly and see what he says. :p

[tteich]

Hmm, interesting reading. I am not a lawyer, but if the case was dismissed, doesn't the judicial seal on the code ought to be removed too? I'm going to try writing to Felten directly and see what he says. :p
I'm not a lawyer, too, and I did not follow the outcome of the case. If it was dismissed, then there's no reason why the code should remain sealed.

What I find very clever is the fact that all of these scientists/cryptoanalysts (I mean Felten, Craver, Ferguson) have signed declarations to the US court, in which they declare to not publish the results of their work regarding CPPM/CPRM, SDMI, etc., but in the very same declaration actually TEACH HOW THEY PERFORMED THE ATTACK! :D

Read for instance this one: http://www.macfergus.com/niels/dmca/felten_declaration.html

Same valuable information can be found in the Felten declaration, in which he mentioned the program "tinywarp.c", which points out that you only have to warp the audio signal in the time domain by a tiny amount in order to defeat the watermark detector. A programmer with mathematical background should be able to implement such a thing easily.

[tteich]

Nice one! :thanks:

Now all we need is a free / open source MLP decoder and Bam! - no more dependencies on WinDVD ;)
Note that DTS-HD:MA (master audio) is based on the MLP algorithm, and used now on a good number of european HD-DVDs from StudioCanal. The codec provides lossless compression for high-rez multichannel audio and I find it worth anyway to have an encoder/decoder for MLP / a.k.a. DTS-HD:Master.

[jolson]

I don't say no about DTS Master Audio, but I know that Dolby True-HD anyway is based on MLP.

When it comes to the watermark removal program I got it from someone who had read the Craver paper, but had no watermarked DVD-A to try it on. He thought it was a very good chance it would work, but also a pretty large risk it would be audible. I haven't found it, though. Have to hope for backup disks. And it was no source code, just a cmd-line program.

[tteich]

I don't say no about DTS Master Audio, but I know that Dolby True-HD anyway is based on MLP.

When it comes to the watermark removal program I got it from someone who had read the Craver paper, but had no watermarked DVD-A to try it on. He thought it was a very good chance it would work, but also a pretty large risk it would be audible. I haven't found it, though. Have to hope for backup disks. And it was no source code, just a cmd-line program.
Okay, it could be I'm mixing this up (DTS:MA vs. DTHD). Both DTS and Dolby have a lossless scheme, and one of them is basically MLP.

Tinywarp: I might (with help of a colleague who has a Panasonic DVD-V/DVD-A player) be able to run some tests. Last time we tried his player stopped after 15? seconds (watermark detected). What else comes to mind: I have the related verance patents somewhere on my harddisc, and with the help of Cravers report one should be able to determine the parameters of the watermarked signal. As far as I understand it's a complex echo signal. Removing the echo could be a real pain, if not impossible. However, ideas come with understanding how the detection mechanism work, and which parameters are involved.

[abcx]

BTW, the Craver paper mentions 4 watermarking schemes. Is the first one the one used on DVD-As? It seems to me that way because they could find a Verance patent for it...

[tteich]

BTW, the Craver paper mentions 4 watermarking schemes. Is the first one the one used on DVD-As? It seems to me that way because they could find a Verance patent for it...Seems likely, but I don't know. Verance bought the itellectual property from another company (the one which has filed the mentioned patent). The fact that after CSS was broken the companies had to develop new protection and watermarking schemes in a hurry let me believe that they just took something which was developed and already available at that time. To get a definite answer, one has to analyze wav files which were taken from a watermarked DVD-Audio using the mathematical methods as described in the paper (e.g. FFT and cepstral analysis).

[frenchglen]

Any news on this front?
Anyone have the tinywarp.c program?

[merbanan]

Well an Open Source decoder is in the works.

[Wilbert]

Ok, but he's referring to the watermark removal.

[tteich]

Well an Open Source decoder is in the works.
sounds very interesting. can you post a link to the project site?

Ok, but he's referring to the watermark removal.
Detecting the watermark is one side of the story. Removal of the complex echo very hard to achieve.

[mommyman]

Detecting the watermark is one side of the story. Removal of the complex echo very hard to achieve.
Verance told us about existence of detector/remarker products (see http://www.verance.com/vcms/products_consprod.html). This way echo doesn't have to be removed, only CCI bits should be set in "copying freely" position.

[merbanan]

sounds very interesting. can you post a link to the project site?


Detecting the watermark is one side of the story. Removal of the complex echo very hard to achieve.

ffmpeg.org

[gp2221]

link: http://rapidshare.com/files/44120246/adv.rar.html
archive password: n3tL4b%E2k@rU

command example:
dvdcpxm.exe D:\AUDIO_TS\ATS_01_1.AOB C:\dvda_rip

the new tool can decrypt CPRM/CPPM protected video and audio, i.e. both CPRM/CPPM protected AOBs and VOBs

I'm wondering if this is the right tool for the task I'm trying to do?

After spending the $6.50 or so for the rights to download the archive, I can't get it to work on my system. There aren't any instructions other than a sample command line.

I have the Barenaked Ladies 'Everything to Everyone' CD/DVD combo. The DVD "Everything else" has both the VIDEO_TS and AUDIO_TS folders. The audio includes both 24/96 surround and 24/96 stereo files. I would like to convert/decrypt to multichannel and stereo wav files and then I can encode to FLAC or WMA lossless to play from my computer.

At least the other tool, PPCMRipper, helps you generate to wav, but I couldn't get that to work either. I don't know what dvdcpxm.exe is suppose to create. When I run it -

C:\Rip\dvdcpxm.exe g:\audio_ts\ATS_01_1.AOB d:\barenaked

I get the following prompts:

Simple DVD-Audio AOB/VOB Decrypter

Processing media key block...
Unprotected media is loaded in drive g:
Nothing to do, exit!

This is after inserting the DVD in my DVD drive (G)

[alicizmar]

I'm bring this back to ask how the DVD files should appear on the disc with a drive that has CPRM.
Tried a CPRM disc I have in several computers. The ones that support CPRM don't see anything written on the DVD, whereas the ones that don't support CPRM show files on the disc, but because the drive doesn't support CPRM, they cannot be played.

[keysersose]

link: http://rapidshare.com/files/44120246/adv.rar.html
archive password: n3tL4b%E2k@rU

command example:
dvdcpxm.exe D:\AUDIO_TS\ATS_01_1.AOB C:\dvda_rip

the new tool can decrypt CPRM/CPPM protected video and audio, i.e. both CPRM/CPPM protected AOBs and VOBs

I have tried this on 2 discs and I get the response that they are not protected - nothing to do..

Using DVDa Explorer to try and extract the tracks - it fails and says File Encrypted..

Is this a case where there is no CPRM but the watermark is tripping dvda explorer?

[rasth]

I have tried this on 2 discs and I get the response that they are not protected - nothing to do..

Using DVDa Explorer to try and extract the tracks - it fails and says File Encrypted..

Is this a case where there is no CPRM but the watermark is tripping dvda explorer?

The watermark won't trip up DVDA Explorer. It doesn't know how to see the watermark in the data.

If you have a file \AUDIO_TS\DVDAUDIO.MKB then the disc is encrypted. If you don't have that file, DVDA Explorer should be able to copy tracks.

[keysersose]

The watermark won't trip up DVDA Explorer. It doesn't know how to see the watermark in the data.

If you have a file \AUDIO_TS\DVDAUDIO.MKB then the disc is encrypted. If you don't have that file, DVDA Explorer should be able to copy tracks.

Just tried a new version of DVDA Explorer (alpha 8) and it worked fine on a encrypted disc that wouldn't copy with the previous DVDA Explorer..

So all we have to do is find some way to get past the watermarking..

[rasth]

Cool. I just grabbed the new version. Thanks for the heads up.

[keysersose]

A HUGE thanks from me!! - this new version is a very nice improvement and really simplifies things - much better than recording thru a soundcard and having to remake the MLP files and mucking around with cue sheets..

:) :)

[sk11vengeance]

Ive just bought the LP Reanimation dvd-audio disc online and ive been trying to rip the stereo files off the disc but I cant get them off with dvdaudioexplorer, it says they are encrypted. I then try the dvdcpxm.exe and when I type the paths and filenames it doesnt do anything at the command line. it just keeps saying what it says when you type dvdcpxm,

Simple DVD-Audio AOB/VOB Decrypter

Use: src_file dest_directory

im typing it just like the example, but nothing happens outside of that. Any ideas?

Ive also tried following the guide at http://avisynth.org/mediawiki/DVDAGuide and ive tried the dvdfab but the latest version is much newer than the one listed and when i use it, it doesnt decrypt anything in the audio_ts folder, just gives a file copy error. So has anyone been able to successfully rip the stereo files off this disc? Thanks!

[Wilbert]

Ive just bought the LP Reanimation dvd-audio disc online and ive been trying to rip the stereo files off the disc but I cant get them off with dvdaudioexplorer, it says they are encrypted. I then try the dvdcpxm.exe and when I type the paths and filenames it doesnt do anything at the command line. it just keeps saying what it says when you type dvdcpxm,

Simple DVD-Audio AOB/VOB Decrypter

Use: src_file dest_directory

im typing it just like the example, but nothing happens outside of that. Any ideas?
Could you give the full command line which you typed.

[rasth]

Try the newer GUI version. See the latest posts in the thread

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=96860

[keysersose]

Ive just bought the LP Reanimation dvd-audio disc online and ive been trying to rip the stereo files off the disc but I cant get them off with dvdaudioexplorer, it says they are encrypted.


You have to check off the box that says

Ignore Encrypted Stream

this will let you extract the stereo MLP files

[sk11vengeance]

You have to check off the box that says

Ignore Encrypted Stream

this will let you extract the stereo MLP files

When I do that it gives an error, MLP decoder failed during extraction when I have convert to wave selected. It will however extract the mlp file when store is selected.

The command line which I typed for dvdcpxm is

C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\Desktop\adv>dvdcpxm L:\AUDIO_TS\ATS_01_1.AOB J:\New Folder

Edit: Ok, I made a folder on C: which is used in the command example in a previous post, C:\dvda_rip and now cpxm says theres nothing to do, on all the AOB's even though theres an .MKB file in the audio_ts folder. Now im really confused!

[keysersose]

When I do that it gives an error, MLP decoder failed during extraction when I have convert to wave selected. It will however extract the mlp file when store is selected.



yeah I don't know why it wont extract the waves for you..

what is the reason for wanting the wave files?

you can make a new stereo DVD-A disc using discwelder..

[sk11vengeance]

yeah I don't know why it wont extract the waves for you..

what is the reason for wanting the wave files?

you can make a new stereo DVD-A disc using discwelder..

I was just wanting to compare the 24bit to 16 bit files from the orignal Reanimation CD I have to see if I can tell any sound quality difference from my speakers.

Ive tried many different versions of dvdfab but most of them just gives the 103 error and stops immediately. One version goes up until 93% and stops at the audio_sv mpeg files with the same error.

[keysersose]

I was just wanting to compare the 24bit to 16 bit files from the orignal Reanimation CD I have to see if I can tell any sound quality difference from my speakers.



I don't get it?

why not just compare the stereo DVD-A against the CD??

MLP is merely a lossless means of compression..so in theory is the same as playing 24 bit wave files..

[sk11vengeance]

I don't get it?

why not just compare the stereo DVD-A against the CD??

MLP is merely a lossless means of compression..so in theory is the same as playing 24 bit wave files..

Id rather just rip it to the computer with the rest of my collection. I use Foobar to play all the files back so its just easier for me that way.