Strange DVD-RB? behavior, subtitles disappering, sort of...

[varekai]

Hello! :)

This has only happened to me a few times and really no need for burning the midnight oil to fix this if my solution works.
Maybe not DVD-RB's fault in the first place?

Original DVD has 2 audio streams + 4 subtitle streams.
Rip to hd is no problem and playing files on computer works fine. Problem comes after using DVD-RB.
I'm using DVD-RB pro v.1.25.0, movie only, keeping 1 audio + 1 subtitle, CCESP trial, CCEAQM enabled.
This problem also occured on previous DVD-RB versions.

Selected subtitle won't show up when playing on computer or burned to DVD-R disc and playing on standalone DVD player.
Selecting all 4 subtitle streams only one will show. Of course not the one I wanna keep...
Found that the forgiving Videolan player actually could show the right subtitle so I figured subtitle was
in there and not really gone but hiding somewhere. Look below for some differences I found viewing IFO's in IfoEdit.

I think I managed to solve this issue using Trial&Error, (two of my best friends) compairing the original ripped IFO's and
the DVD-RB ouput IFO's using IfoEdit, then using PGCEdit to change sub-picture stream to same values as the original.
I should mention when using other wellknown shrinkers it works just fine, and when viewing these IFO's in IfoEdit it
shows the same sub-picture stream values as the original IFO's.

So is this one way to solve it or am I doing it all wrong?

regards varekai

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Original rip, shows the right subtitle, text copied from IfoEdit:

VMG Overview:

Video Manager Menu attributes:
Video: MPEG-1 720x576 (PAL) (PAL 625/50) (4:3) (pan-scan & letterboxed)

Text copied from IfoEdit VTS_PGCITI / VTS_PGC_1
PGC (program chain):

[0000001c] Sub-picture stream 1 status -2147417856 [80010100]
Sub-picture stream 1 uses stream nr.(4:3): 0
Sub-picture stream 1 uses stream nr.(wide): 1
Sub-picture stream 1 uses stream nr.(letterbox): 1
Sub-picture stream 1 uses stream nr.(pan&scan): 0

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DVD-RB output, shows no subtitles, text copied from IfoEdit:

VMG Overview:

Video Manager Menu attributes:
Video: MPEG-2 720x576 (PAL) (PAL 625/50) (4:3) (letterboxed)

Text copied from IfoEdit: VTS_PGCITI / VTS_PGC_1
PGC (program chain):

[0000001c] Sub-picture stream 1 status -2130706432 [81000000]
Sub-picture stream 1 uses stream nr.(4:3): 1
Sub-picture stream 1 uses stream nr.(wide): 0
Sub-picture stream 1 uses stream nr.(letterbox): 0
Sub-picture stream 1 uses stream nr.(pan&scan): 0

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[jdobbs]

I'll check it out.

[varekai]

Hello jdobbs! Thanks for your reply... :)

I've edited the faulty IFO's on 3 different subtitle-error projects with PGCEdit and it works just fine.
Can't really remember if there were any other project that failed but I don't think so.
Should it ever happen again I now know how to solve it, (kind of proud I figured this out all by myself!)
I'm perfectly happy with this solution so no need for you to do any extra work on this.

regards

[jdobbs]

It the subtitles are configured for the proper aspect ratio -- that is certainly a problem. These are all movie-only encodes, right?

[varekai]

Hello! :)

Sorry, I didn't understand this line: If the subtitles are configured for the proper aspect ratio
I never change any aspect ratio settings.
Yeah, these three are all movie-only encodes.

regards

[jdobbs]

I didn't mean to imply that you had converted the aspect ratio. What I meant was that it appears that DVD-RB's output isn't matching the original aspect ratio.

The examples you posted from IFOEDIT show that the original subtitle was provisioned to support 16:9 display (in widescreen or letterbox). The one you posted for DVD-RB indicates the subtitle is aimed at 4:3. So what it appears is that, for some reason, DVD-RB has gotten confused about the aspect ratio of the subtitle.

What don't understand, though, is how that could happen. DVD-RB simply copies the subtitle tables over from source to destination when it creates the movie-only IFO. But I'll find it. If there's horse crap on the floor, you can bet there's a pony in there somewhere.

Are you sure you are comparing the right VTS/PGC in source and destination? In movie-only the output is always VTS_01... but the source for the movie could be any of the VTS's on the original disc. You have to look at the IFO of the largest VTS in the source directory, and at the largest PGC within that VTS to find the correct subtitle table.

[blutach]

@jdobbs

Re the original: Maybe stream 0 is turned on for 4:3. Not sure why stream 1 would be there in this case. But, we dunno if it's a widescreen or letterbox movie, cos the info shown is only for the video manager menus (and the MPEG-1 indicates no menus present in VMG).

Regards

[varekai]

@jdobbs

Hello! :)

Forgive me for my ignorance... but this is confusing and a bit over my head but I'll do my best.
I tried several approaches and getting the same output with missing or showing wrong subtitle.
I tried feeding DVD-RB with full DVD, tried feeding with rippped movie only + 1 audio + 1 sub,
tried feeding with ripped movie only + 1 audio + all 4 subs and getting same result,
subs not showing at all or showing only 1 sub, the one listed as the first one.
The second one is the one I'd like to keep.
I forgot to mention, sorry for that, the info provided in my first post was from pre-processing,
keeping movie only + 1 subtitle.

Sorry if I'm messing things up...
It's a bit confusing with copying & pasting & compairing all this text... maybe I'm overdoing it?
So if it's my way of doing things that makes DVD-RB produce this minor error I sincerely apologize.
As I said before, I'm perfectly happy with the way I managed to get it working.

regards

I really don't know if this makes any sense or makes it easier for you to understand what's going on.
I can see there are some differences in values when compairing.
Here's what I found:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From the original IFO of the largest non pre-processed VTS in the source directory

VTS overview

Title Set (Movie) attributes:
Video: MPEG-2 720x576 (PAL) (PAL 625/50) (16:9) (letterboxed)

VTS_01_0.IFO \ VTS_PGC_ITI \ VTS_PGC1

PGC (program chain):

[0000001c] Sub-picture stream 1 status -2147483648 [80000000]
Sub-picture stream 1 uses stream nr.(4:3): 0
Sub-picture stream 1 uses stream nr.(wide): 0
Sub-picture stream 1 uses stream nr.(letterbox): 0
Sub-picture stream 1 uses stream nr.(pan&scan): 0
[00000020] Sub-picture stream 2 status -2147417856 [80010100]
Sub-picture stream 2 uses stream nr.(4:3): 0
Sub-picture stream 2 uses stream nr.(wide): 1
Sub-picture stream 2 uses stream nr.(letterbox): 1
Sub-picture stream 2 uses stream nr.(pan&scan): 0
[00000024] Sub-picture stream 3 status -2147352064 [80020200]
Sub-picture stream 3 uses stream nr.(4:3): 0
Sub-picture stream 3 uses stream nr.(wide): 2
Sub-picture stream 3 uses stream nr.(letterbox): 2
Sub-picture stream 3 uses stream nr.(pan&scan): 0
[00000028] Sub-picture stream 4 status -2147286272 [80030300]
Sub-picture stream 4 uses stream nr.(4:3): 0
Sub-picture stream 4 uses stream nr.(wide): 3
Sub-picture stream 4 uses stream nr.(letterbox): 3
Sub-picture stream 4 uses stream nr.(pan&scan): 0

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From pre-processed keeping movie only + 1 subtitle

VTS overview

Title Set (Movie) attributes:
Video: MPEG-2 720x576 (PAL) (PAL 625/50) (16:9) (letterboxed)

VTS_01_0.IFO \ VTS_PGC_ITI \ VTS_PGC1

PGC (program chain):

[0000001c] Sub-picture stream 1 status -2147417856 [80010100]
Sub-picture stream 1 uses stream nr.(4:3): 0
Sub-picture stream 1 uses stream nr.(wide): 1
Sub-picture stream 1 uses stream nr.(letterbox): 1
Sub-picture stream 1 uses stream nr.(pan&scan): 0

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From DVD-RB output (using non pre-processed files) keeping all 4 subtitles
(only first subtitle will show, not the one I wannna keep)

From REBUILDER.INI

[Audio]
Selected=01
Remapping=
[Subpictures]
Selected=1111

VTS overview

Title Set (Movie) attributes:
Video: MPEG-2 720x576 (PAL) (PAL 625/50) (16:9) (letterboxed)


VTS_01_0.IFO \ VTS_PGCITI \ VTS_PGC1

PGC (program chain):

[0000001c] Sub-picture stream 1 status -2147483648 [80000000]
Sub-picture stream 1 uses stream nr.(4:3): 0
Sub-picture stream 1 uses stream nr.(wide): 0
Sub-picture stream 1 uses stream nr.(letterbox): 0
Sub-picture stream 1 uses stream nr.(pan&scan): 0
[00000020] Sub-picture stream 2 status -2130706432 [81000000]
Sub-picture stream 2 uses stream nr.(4:3): 1
Sub-picture stream 2 uses stream nr.(wide): 0
Sub-picture stream 2 uses stream nr.(letterbox): 0
Sub-picture stream 2 uses stream nr.(pan&scan): 0
[00000024] Sub-picture stream 3 status -2113929216 [82000000]
Sub-picture stream 3 uses stream nr.(4:3): 2
Sub-picture stream 3 uses stream nr.(wide): 0
Sub-picture stream 3 uses stream nr.(letterbox): 0
Sub-picture stream 3 uses stream nr.(pan&scan): 0
[00000028] Sub-picture stream 4 status -2097152000 [83000000]
Sub-picture stream 4 uses stream nr.(4:3): 3
Sub-picture stream 4 uses stream nr.(wide): 0
Sub-picture stream 4 uses stream nr.(letterbox): 0
Sub-picture stream 4 uses stream nr.(pan&scan): 0

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From DVD-RB output (using pre-processed files) keeping 1 subtitle (shows no subtitle)

VTS overview

Title Set (Movie) attributes:
Video: MPEG-2 720x576 (PAL) (PAL 625/50) (16:9) (letterboxed)

VTS_01_0.IFO \ VTS_PGC_ITI \ VTS_PGC1

PGC (program chain):

[0000001c] Sub-picture stream 1 status -2130706432 [81000000]
Sub-picture stream 1 uses stream nr.(4:3): 1
Sub-picture stream 1 uses stream nr.(wide): 0
Sub-picture stream 1 uses stream nr.(letterbox): 0
Sub-picture stream 1 uses stream nr.(pan&scan): 0

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From DVD-RB output (using pre-processed files, correction with PgcEdit) keeping 1 subtitle.
This works both on PC and standalone player showing the right subtitle stream.

VTS overview:

Title Set (Movie) attributes:
Video: MPEG-2 720x576 (PAL) (PAL 625/50) (16:9) (letterboxed)

VTS_01_0.IFO \ VTS_PGC_ITI \ VTS_PGC1

PGC (program chain):

[0000001c] Sub-picture stream 1 status -2147417856 [80010100]
Sub-picture stream 1 uses stream nr.(4:3): 0
Sub-picture stream 1 uses stream nr.(wide): 1
Sub-picture stream 1 uses stream nr.(letterbox): 1
Sub-picture stream 1 uses stream nr.(pan&scan): 0

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From DVD-RB output (using non pre-processed files, correction with PgcEdit) keeping all 4 subtitles.
This works both on PC and standalone player showing all correct 4 subtitle streams.

VTS overview

Title Set (Movie) attributes:
Video: MPEG-2 720x576 (PAL) (PAL 625/50) (16:9) (letterboxed)

VTS_01_0.IFO \ VTS_PGC_ITI \ VTS_PGC1

[0000001c] Sub-picture stream 1 status -2147483648 [80000000]
Sub-picture stream 1 uses stream nr.(4:3): 0
Sub-picture stream 1 uses stream nr.(wide): 0
Sub-picture stream 1 uses stream nr.(letterbox): 0
Sub-picture stream 1 uses stream nr.(pan&scan): 0
[00000020] Sub-picture stream 2 status -2147417856 [80010100]
Sub-picture stream 2 uses stream nr.(4:3): 0
Sub-picture stream 2 uses stream nr.(wide): 1
Sub-picture stream 2 uses stream nr.(letterbox): 1
Sub-picture stream 2 uses stream nr.(pan&scan): 0
[00000024] Sub-picture stream 3 status -2147352064 [80020200]
Sub-picture stream 3 uses stream nr.(4:3): 0
Sub-picture stream 3 uses stream nr.(wide): 2
Sub-picture stream 3 uses stream nr.(letterbox): 2
Sub-picture stream 3 uses stream nr.(pan&scan): 0
[00000028] Sub-picture stream 4 status -2147286272 [80030300]
Sub-picture stream 4 uses stream nr.(4:3): 0
Sub-picture stream 4 uses stream nr.(wide): 3
Sub-picture stream 4 uses stream nr.(letterbox): 3
Sub-picture stream 4 uses stream nr.(pan&scan): 0

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[varekai]

@blutach

Hello! :)
But, we dunno if it's a widescreen or letterbox movie, cos the info shown is only for the video manager menus (and the MPEG-1 indicates no menus present in VMG).
That info was taken from VIDEO_TS.IFO and perhaps misleading?
I believe it's a letterboxed widescreen movie.

regards

[jdobbs]

Well, I've done several discs using movie-only encoding. I was selecting different subpictures, and trying anything I thought might bring about this situation... and every one worked correctly. The subtitle I selected was correctly included in the output IFO.

Sorry, but I'm not sure what else to do -- it appears to work correctly.

[varekai]

@jdobbs

Hello! :)

This is absolutelly no problem for me, I was just curious on what's causing this.
Could it be the company/author of these DVD's that made an error?
Good thing is I learned how to easily solve it.
Considering this minor error only occured so far with three (3) projects out of many,
and I've been a pro user for about a year now, I'm still a big fan of DVD-RB.
Thanks for all your hard work and great support! :)

regards

[MilesAhead]

Hmmmmmm I think I'm running into something similar. I am using DVD RB Pro to reencode letterbox DVDs to 16x9. Everything works great except that when I'm done it doesn't matter if I excluded all subs but english, or left them all included, but the resulting burn will only show one sub in my stand alone players. If I use VLC I can select all subs. the way I'm working around it now it to strip out the subs with VSRip, convert to .sup with SubToSup, then pull the mpg file out of the title set with Vob2Mpg, then use SVCD2DVD to mux the .sup subs in. In the stand alone all languages are shown when you cycle the subtitle button on the remote, but only one(usually chinese) is shown.

A bit frustrating because I'd love to 16 by 9 ify a bunch of my letterboxed DVDs. :)

[MilesAhead]

Anyway, I seem to be able to use DVD RB with subs ok now. I tried to use the subtitle exclusion in the setup because I didn't see how to choose what subs to include/exclude. The double-click the mouse to check or uncheck an option wasn't intuitive to me. I tried it out of desperation and it, er, clicked! :)

[Calimari]

I've reported a subtitle related problem almost a year ago: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=132804

I'm not sure if this is the same kind of problem. In my case, the subtitles disappeared somewhere in the middle of the movie, there seemed to be a timing-related problem. Although DVD-RB doesn't edit the subtitles and just copies them to the output, something went wrong during the last stage, the rebuilding stage. It's easy to reproduce this problem with the R2 PAL movies Norbit and Transformers, selecting the Dutch subtitles (there were more titles but I forgot them and I won't search them anymore as I stopped using DVD-RB since then). You don't even need to re-encode, just select DVD9 as your output so DVD-RB will strip down the movie and rebuild it again without re-encoding it. When watching the movie with a subtitle stream selected, the subs disappear somewhere in the movie as there goes something wrong with the timing. When skipping back to the start point of the 'problem' chapter, the subs show up again. Also, demuxing and remuxing the main movie again with other software solves the problem. This problem occurs in both my Philips standalone and on the pc with Power DVD. Other, more forgiving, sofwareplayers keep on showing the subs during the entire movie.
As I said, I'm not sure if we're talking about the same anomaly here. But as my problem never got solved and there definitely goes something wrong with the subtitles in some cases, maybe this is the right moment to have a look at it again. DVD-RB is fine software, and if this problem ever gets solved, I'd like to use it again.

[blutach]

@calimari - can you check the subs where they disapear in DVD SubEdit and see if the PTS is "bad"?

Regards

[Calimari]

I don't think the PTS is bad (as far as I understand) In that other thread, post http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1076823&postcount=3 I've posted the properties of the first 'invisible' subtitle, both for the original and the DVD-RB processed backup. Note the different V/CID.

[blutach]

Aaaah, yes, I remember that one, now. Blame an old guy for forgetting :)

And yes, jdobbs needs to look at it.

Regards

[Calimari]

Blame an old guy for forgetting :)

And yes, jdobbs needs to look at it.

Regards

I'd rather appreciate your digital video wisdom ;)
And I sure hope this demon eventually gets busted.