More screws being turned? [Archive]

awhitehead

2nd May 2007, 04:52

@BLACKBIRDxx

Hi!

The article to which you've applied a link does not appear to be pertinent to this specific event...

(Not sure if this is the correct forum for this thread. Admins, please move if apropriate)

Yesterday I was quite amused to read on slashdot about someone who calles himself "Rudd-O" who is busy spreading the processing key for HD-DVDs.

Link (http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/07/05/01/1935250.shtml).

Supposedly sites he mentiones were all either given DMCA notices (Google notebook, blogspot, etc) , or are paid off by Microsoft (in case of digg).

It won't be surprising if it comes out that DMCA was involved in case of "Digital Video Forum", most likely filed with the ISP, not with the actual admins of the forum. Seems to be the weapon of choice now.

*sigh*

While I have lots of faith in doom9, and his ability to counder-file the DMCA notices, sometime I wonder if maybe it's time for me to save as a locl copy the "understanding AACS (including subset difference)" thread.

Coincidentially, don't you find the wording in this post (http://blog.digg.com/?p=73) by one of the owners of digg to be remarkably similar to the wording in the post you linked to? "In order for foo to survive..."

"You take that ^%$# off RIGHT NOW, or we'll sue you back into stone age as an accomplice!" "mmm... Okay!"

bourke

2nd May 2007, 05:21

Sounds like a 'May day' takedown!

Incidently, if the admins of Doom9 receive such takedown notices can they please post a thread full of them?! Please :-)

Galileo2000

2nd May 2007, 05:38

setarip_old

2nd May 2007, 06:07

If I had to point to one significant difference between the "Doom9 Forum" and the "Digital Video Forum" - that may have been a reason for the virtual castration of "Digital Video Forum" - it would be the fact that "admin" (the owner of "DVF") accepted paid advertising which, amazingly, included ads for acquiring "DVD Decrypter" and "DV Shrink 2007" and "Fix DVD Shrink", to name a few.

I believe the purity of this forum, as maintained by its owner, as a meeting place for developers and those of us who wish only to make backup copies of our purchased media, coupled with its inviolate rules regarding downloads, is the primary reason for its continuing unassailed success.

I sincerely hope that the "Doom9 Forum" will continue long after the probable near-term demise of the now crippled "Digital Video Forum"...

Rich86

2nd May 2007, 06:23

It looks like folks are not even permitted to converse? It is truly unfortunate that such things can be thrust upon a discussion forum. The originator of this forum needs to take a long hard look at the opening statements regarding why doom9 exists, and what the objectives of its existence are. Those statements have just been mostly negated by the recent actions taken by the forum owner. They need to be edited down quite significantly.
We all bow to the kings of video - the MPAA - Sony - Macrovision - and our elected officials who live off their droppings.

But I'm still not going to buy any newer Sony dvd releases - because I'm not going to pay for mediocre quality, intentional flaws and defects, and autorun executables.

I'm still going to ignore high definition dvd's until the industry standardizes on a format and drives the prices of both players and releases down to something reasonable.

And we should all continue to advocate the protection of our rights - of free speech - and fair use. Just not in this forum, apparently, as it probably isn't permitted any longer. Program authors and forum mod's are running for the hills. I guess I don't really blame them.

setarip_old

2nd May 2007, 06:30

@Rich86

Hi!The originator of this forum needs to take a long hard look at the opening statements regarding why doom9 exists, and what the objectives of its existence are. Those statements have just been mostly negated by the recent actions taken by the forum owner.Are you confusing the "Doom9 Forum" with another forum?

What "recent actions" have been taken by the owner of the "Doom9 Forum"?

arnezami

2nd May 2007, 06:35

Its incredible what is/has been happening at Digg.com

Digg.com has (literally) halted all new stories because it now only contains stories about the Processing Key! Its a massive revolt from their users for removing all posts about AACS decryption.

They may be removing these stories one by one now. But their trust is shattered. They may not recover because of this act of censorship.

[edit] YES! We have won! Freedom of Speech! (link (http://blog.digg.com/?p=74)) :D

Regards,

arnezami

melakai

2nd May 2007, 06:39

Its incredible what is/has been happening at Digg.com

Digg.com has (litterally) halted all new stories because it now only contains stories about the Processing Key! Its a massive revolt from their users for removing all posts about AACS decryption.

They seem to be removing these stories one by one now. But their trust is shattered. They may not recover because of this act of censorship.

Just a quick note, Kevin Rose has posted a follow-up (http://blog.digg.com/?p=74). The important stuff:

But now, after seeing hundreds of stories and reading thousands of comments, you’ve made it clear. You’d rather see Digg go down fighting than bow down to a bigger company. We hear you, and effective immediately we won’t delete stories or comments containing the code and will deal with whatever the consequences might be.

linx05

2nd May 2007, 06:59

Go Digg!!! Wow that's really good of them. I wish the best of luck to DD. I only ever visited the forum for the decrypting side of things so I doubt I may go back.

I am still very interested as to why Doom9.org is so safe? I would love to find out what is so special about this place that it hasn't been taken down.

setarip_old

2nd May 2007, 07:03

@linx05

Have you read my speculation in post #9 of this thread?

linx05

2nd May 2007, 07:09

Yes. We are hearing now that C&D orders are being given to Google and Digg.com. Why not shut down the place where it all started? The majority of the work on the AACS copy protection has been done here. It was a good speculation no doubt.

bourke

2nd May 2007, 07:23

OK, Empire strikes back.

We have just two choices gentlemen:

- sit and wait and hope nothing will happen;

- establish an emergency fund for doom99 or whatever just in case.

Place your opinions.

Mind you, if doom9 is down, not all but much of it is lost.

I am willing to host a server in Australia (1Mbps upstream) temporarily if they raid your ISP 'piratebay style'!

A very interesting fact is that I have had this as my signature on a Microsoft Xbox forum since February LOL:

'One key to rule them all and in the darkness bind them!
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0'

Check out the sig here:

http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:LGI9FpJvUIcJ:forums.xbox.com/11901560/ShowPost.aspx+%2209+F9+11+02+9D+74+E3+5B+D8+41+56+C5+63+56+88+C0%22+site:xbox.com&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=au&client=firefox-a

It's still a second page Google hit even after a few weeks LOL! Does that mean Microsoft would be receiving C&D letters from the MPAA?!

techreactor

2nd May 2007, 07:36

I just noticed that at "Digital Video Forum", all of its decrypting-specific sub-forums have "disappeared".

Could "they" be at it again?

Does anyone have any factual information to share regarding this?

Well, I also noticed long time back after the fools day that DVF started removing all articles related to decrypting, rippers etc etc, you can do a search now and will find none. Now they come up with this, and bring out a new rule to it, Rule 19. You cannot even discuss applications like DVD shrink, Fixvts etc etc(i.e. virtually nothing can be discussed), which has nothing to do with circumventing the encryption and is ridiculous. Is the DVF forum trying to say that whatever they believed in and were running the forums for the last 8 years was against the law ??? and they were doing it knowingly and now they have stopped doing it since someone(MPAA) pointed it out. If you cannot even standup for your rights, you might as well close voluntarily. What will remain of DVF without all these discussions is to everyone's guess.

Just a quick note, Kevin Rose has posted a follow-up (http://blog.digg.com/?p=74). The important stuff:

At least you can appreciate that the Diggs forum listens to their members and can stand for their rights, even though they know that they can be striked down, unlike some other forums, where forum members are gagged and striked out for raising their voices.

bourke

2nd May 2007, 07:59

where forum members are gagged and striked out for raising their voices.

Struck out :-P

blutach

2nd May 2007, 08:21

@techreactor

We trust you'll have less difficulty in following our rules than you did at DVF.

The simple thing is this. There is no "free speech" on a forum. The forum belongs to someone - in this case, Doom9. What he says goes - not some ideal of a "1st amendment". If bad things go down, they go down on his head and usually not the those of the members. So, we do what Doom9 says to ensure he is not in the firing line.

We have rules here (as most forums do) - they are simple to follow. If you follow them, there'll be no issues. If not, indeed strikes will be issued. We don't like to censor people, but will do so in the event of breaches to the rules.

I hope all members have read and understood these very easy to follow rules (http://forum.doom9.org/forum-rules.htm) (together with the various announcements).

Regards

techreactor

2nd May 2007, 09:44

@techreactor

We trust you'll have less difficulty in following our rules than you did at DVF.

@Blutach, now let us not bring the things which happenned in the DVF to an open forum like this, which might bring shame to some names(if I name them). I had no difficulty in the DVF too, until some mod got rude (confirmed by other mods of the DVF).

There is "free speech" in the forum and the right to protest too(its defined in the doom9 rules atleast), but each forum is managed by the guidelines in terms of rules laid out and that we need to follow.

I agree with the rest of your opinion.

But this is an OT and we should not hijack this thread, lets stick to this topic and take our personal grudges elsewhere, I have none. :thanks:

setarip_old

2nd May 2007, 09:54

@blutach

Hi!

I started this thread with the following questions:

"Could 'they' be at it again?
Does anyone have any factual information to share regarding this?"

You are an active moderator at "Digital Video Forum". Do you know the answers to these questions? If so, would you please be good enough to share them with us?

blutach

2nd May 2007, 09:56

@techreactor

You will find the right to protest and free speech at this forum is very much determined by what Doom9 wants as embodied in the forum rules - just as it is at DVF. Please do not think you have free speech here.

For example, this fellow (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=996916#post996916) was reprimanded for what some might call free speech but what we saw as an incitement for members and guests to break rule 6.

Everyone should bear this in mind.

Of course, if you get a strike, you have the right to protest to Doom9.

I am happy to hear you have no personal grudges and even happier to know you will be abiding by our rules.

Regards

blutach

2nd May 2007, 09:57

setarip_old

2nd May 2007, 10:05

@blutach

The glorious ambiguity of the English language ;>}I am sorry but I have nothing to share with you.Which does this mean?:

1) That you don't know, or

2) You're unwilling/unable to share the information

blutach

2nd May 2007, 10:09

Maybe it means I can't write an unambiguous statement :D

Regards

setarip_old

2nd May 2007, 10:30

I really wouldn't have expected that type of response, especially from a moderator, regarding such an overwhelmingly serious topic for this forum...

techreactor

2nd May 2007, 10:43

@Setarip_old, he's an active mod there and isnt it obvious that he knows but cant tell.

@blutach, dont worry about the "free speech", I know the rules. But again all this is an OT discussion, not related to this thread. If I could suggest, Perhaps, it would be good if you can start a new thread in the general discussions and ask the members to read the rules once again, just to be sure no one breaks them. :thanks:

blutach

2nd May 2007, 11:15

@setarip_old - I do believe that you answered you own question in post 4. Plus, I actually feel this whole thread serves little use, except to speculate. Doom9 has said on many an occasion that he doesn't like this.

@techreactor - thank you for your suggestion as to how to post on this forum.

Regards

delacroixp

2nd May 2007, 13:04

I don't think Doom9 would be closed down because it was doing something illegal, wrong or even bad... as much as, not serving a usefull purpose to society at large...
I can't speak for 'Digital Video Forum' but perhaps they're running out of steam and losing sight of their true value and purpose on this little planet of ours...

A man with no plan... is no man at all...

:):D:eek:
Pascal

bourke

2nd May 2007, 13:20

Hey guys, does anyone here know whether it was the MPAA or it was the RIAA that sent out those Cease and Desist letters?!

My theory:

<three months after processing key discovery>

<removed profanity by mod>

</three months after processing key discovery>

Rich86

2nd May 2007, 13:42

@Rich86

Hi!Are you confusing the "Doom9 Forum" with another forum?

What "recent actions" have been taken by the owner of the "Doom9 Forum"?

Yes - sorry - my fingers got ahead of my brain . . .

setarip_old

2nd May 2007, 16:05

@techreactorisnt it obvious that he knows but cant tell.No...

setarip_old

2nd May 2007, 17:31

This week seems to be full of curiosities regarding "decrypting".

I just noticed that the "Decrypting" sub-forum here is now without a moderator (I believe "blutach" was previously shown as the moderator, but is now only listed as a moderator of the "IFO/VOB Editors" sub-forum).

Let's hope this sensitive sub-forum doesn't stay unattended for long...

Doom9

2nd May 2007, 19:32

I am willing to host a server in Australia (1Mbps upstream) temporarily if they raid your ISP 'piratebay style'!Well, look up where digital digest is based...

techreactor

3rd May 2007, 05:28

Well, look up where digital digest is based...

Well lets hope that DVF is not giving developer/ mods/ member information to whoever is twisting their arm, since that can be disastrous and if they can force shut down some forums they might aswell twist somemore and get all those details, moreso with their servers hosted in Australia and some developers/members/mods also residing there.

Some developers/mods might even be common to other forums and will be at most risk and with a knock on their doors, making them spill the beans wont be a difficult job.

I dont want to sound paranoid but its better to be farsighted and think ahead of "them".

blutach

3rd May 2007, 05:46

Then, techreactor, in order to protect yourself, remember to respect the rights of copyright holders. Then you should have no fears of a knock on the door.

Regards

techreactor

3rd May 2007, 05:51

Then, techreactor, in order to protect yourself, remember to respect the rights of copyright holders. Then you should have no fears of a knock on the door.

Regards

I have none for myself, but was DVF not respecting them ???

setarip_old

3rd May 2007, 05:54

@techreactorSome developers/mods might even be common to other forums and will be at most risk and with a knock on their doors, making them spill the beans wont be a difficult job."Spill the beans" about what? Development has already been terminated regarding DVD Decrypter, RipIt4Me, and FixVTS...

techreactor

3rd May 2007, 06:06

delacroixp

3rd May 2007, 11:35

It could be many things, like IP's /email ids, of developers site admins and moderators and then they can be tracked (irrespective of where the site is hosted). I wonder how they reached the eventual developer, since if you host your software through the forums(like psl2plugin) and not your own website (like DVDD), its difficult to track without help from the forum hosters. Anyways its an endless discussion and as Blutach said, that if an individual respects the rights of the copyright holders, no cause of worry for the individual at least.
I guess none of us is sweaky-clean, without blame or at least having a some small sense of guilt... deserved or otherwise...

I am willing to host a server in Australia (1Mbps upstream) temporarily if they raid your ISP 'piratebay style'!
Well, look up where digital digest is based...
Well, start your own country... like those software dudes who bought an off-shore WWII British coastal battery in international waters...
It's very American... Davy Crockett complained of over-crowding in the Wild West, with neighbours in a 100 mile radius... and moved on...

Long live 'progress and development' ...

:):D:eek:
Pascal

zeroprobe

3rd May 2007, 16:38

This was hilarious.

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/4199/bestssoj4.jpg

and

http://www.wired.com/images/slideshow/2007/05/gallery_underwire/fortunel_a.jpg

http://www.wired.com/images/slideshow/2007/05/gallery_underwire/rochester0502070950.jpg

zeroprobe

3rd May 2007, 17:11

or the 09 f9 song lol

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/basmic/09F911029D74E35BD84156C5635688C0.html

awhitehead

8th May 2007, 16:27

I guess AACS LA felt that they need to address the recent outcry regarding the processing key being deleted, published, deleted again, etc. Last night they updated their web site with:

RESPONSE TO REPORTS OF ATTACKS ON AACS TECHNOLOGY

May 7, 2007

AACS LA began several weeks ago sending letters to parties trafficking in tools used to circumvent AACS technology on Blu-ray and HD DVD movie discs. The letters requested the removal solely of illegal circumvention tools, including encryption keys, from a number of web sites. AACS LA recognizes the value of active public discussion and commentary related to these issues, and has not requested the removal or deletion of any such discussion or commentary. AACS LA is encouraged by the cooperation it has received thus far from the numerous web sites that have chosen to address their legal obligations in a responsible manner.

delacroixp

9th May 2007, 09:53

RESPONSE TO REPORTS OF ATTACKS ON AACS TECHNOLOGY

May 7, 2007

AACS LA began several weeks ago sending letters to parties trafficking in tools used to circumvent AACS technology on Blu-ray and HD DVD movie discs. The letters requested the removal solely of illegal circumvention tools, including encryption keys, from a number of web sites. AACS LA recognizes the value of active public discussion and commentary related to these issues, and has not requested the removal or deletion of any such discussion or commentary. AACS LA is encouraged by the cooperation it has received thus far from the numerous web sites that have chosen to address their legal obligations in a responsible manner.
Very forward thinking, level headed kinda response...

:):D:eek:
Pascal

Revgen

12th May 2007, 20:58

or the 09 f9 song lol

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/basmic/09F911029D74E35BD84156C5635688C0.html

Whoa! That's hilarious!:D :D

He's a pretty good singer too.

JarrettH

13th May 2007, 04:12

Lmao, great pics!:devil:

Humpa

13th May 2007, 08:42

Whoa! That's hilarious!:D :D

He's a pretty good singer too.I like this one by Geoff Smith better.
... I particularly like how Geek Brief TV put it to video - and Cali is in it ;) I like how she has a cue card for each hex pair.
http://m.podshow.com/media/382/episodes/59459/hd-59459-05-03-2007.mp4

Emulgator

13th May 2007, 09:47

http://m.podshow.com/media/382/episodes/59459/hd-59459-05-03-2007.mp4

This is definitely a beautiful hit !
I laughed my a.. off..

What is culture ?
Culture is exchange.
Exchange of knowledge, behaviour, fashion, music, pictures, sculptures, formulas...
not necessarily expecting a compensation.

This compensation may be given by free will:
"I'll show you my world,
and I'll be very honoured if you show me yours."

Once upon a time A saw what B had
and decided to have this as well.

Because only one was available, he took this from B.
B called his friends and fought back.
So A called his family as well and went to war against B.

Some members of A died, many people around B were wounded.
Also the houses of A and B were destroyed.

To avoid this later, trade was established...
But B demanded too much, cut A off from any resources
and A decided to take what he meant he deserved.
So A and B went to war, again and again...

Culture became possible as exchange became desirable, so legal.
This has brought peace into our world.

Culture implies exchange implies copying,
provided that the inventor does not suffer loss.
A claimed loss is no loss.

What if culture becomes completely replaced by trade ?
Trade applies the longest possible lever to obtain maximum gain.
Gain means: to exclude others.
A becomes too greedy. B will fight back...

We are in the middle of this.. and I am not happy about that.