DivX vs. Nero ? Lets get ready to rumble ?

[crnagora]

Hi folks,

today I read about the upcoming Tevion DVD-Player from the german grocery-store chain ALDI on this sites:

http://www.dvdboard.de/forum/showthread.php?t=113504

and

http://www.hdtv-praxis.de/modules.php?op=modload&name=PagEd&file=index&topic_id=2&page_id=335&ppart=2

Nothing too thrilling about the player itself so far BUT: They choose NOT to implement DivX Ultra nor do they apply for DivX certification. Still not thrilled ? Well the justification they gave is the real shocker:

The problem is not the licensing money they would have to pay DivX Corp. for the shiny DivX Certified Sticker, it is NERO !

Nero you ask ? Yes Nero. As they claim that in order to get DivX Certification (Not sure if Ultra or not) they would need to block Nero (ASP) in the Players Firmware. If they resist they will be assimilated (We are the Borg...uhm the DivX :rolleyes:).

They player itself will still be able to play DivX, XviD and Nero ASP. But there is no certification AND the DivX Container will NOT be supported. But if you rename the .divx Files to .avi the DVD-Player plays them with FULL DivX Ultra Features (Chapters ect.) as the Zoran 888 chip they use is capable of DivX Ultra.

Now I have a couple of theories:

1. The evil ALDI / Siemssen (Manufacturers of the Player) Company is spreading lies about my beloved DivX :angry:. And just because they don't want to pay the licensing fees for the DivX Certification. Hopefully DivX sues them. May their Players rot in hell :D.

2. The story is true and DivX has turned evil :scared:, next thing they will merge with Google and take over the world :D. But because of this little Tevion DVD-Player Ahead/Nero will merge with Microsoft and sue DivX/Google for 234234 Zillion $ ;).

3. Ahead/Nero is frustrated that their crappy Nero ASP Codec and Certification isn't getting enough "buzz" and no one actually uses their certification. So they go to ALDI, cry and sob (And pay some lets say "friendship" money) and get their Nero Standard Logo on the player and successfully ban DivX...a small step towards taking over the world with their great h264 codec in near future :D. Well, unless DivX sues them to bankruptcy for that, and then takes over their h264 Code for the new DivX 7 (Codename: "All your source/base belongs to us").

Well, I made some funny remarks but the whole thing is not very funny.

I hope some of the DivX (or Nero) guys could post a statement.

ARGH:
Sorry about the crossposting. May one of the mods delete one of the two threads (General Discussion and DivX Forum). Again sorry about that.

[setarip_old]

To my way of thinking, format "certification" for players is a sham and, perhaps, extortion.

The hardware manufacturers can include any format playback ability they wish, so there is little, if any, value added by paying for the "privilege" of placing a "DivX" or "NERO" sticker on a player.

If a particular player doesn't properly playback a particular format as advertised, word will circulate and, if the manufacturer doesn't provide an almost immediate fix, further sales of that player will rapidly dissipate.

The only people who stand to gain from this nonsense are those responsible for boosting the income of the DivX group and NERO...

[bond]

actually this doesnt surprise me...

[weaver4]

This surprised me because Avayon 1000 has a DivX certification sticker on it [but not DivX Ultra] and it supports Nero ASP.

[FishTank]

errm.. my cheap scott player plays divx and xvid, but theres
no sticker on it :D
is it now certified or not lol?

[celtic_druid]

Could be something that came in with Ultra certification since I am sure there are more players that are both Nero and DivX certified. DivX HT certification is basically useless anyway since basically all chips support more than it.

[Shinigami-Sama]

Pay licences for certifications?
you mean the compliant decoding of a public standard(Well.. displayed at least)?

wow real terms for legal action there

[foxyshadis]

You have to pay whatever they ask to license a trademark. If divx makes you pass a test and pay a fee for each to get their name on it, that's what you do. You have to pay the MPEG-LA to claim mpeg-4 decoding too, but that fee's included in the decoder licensing.

If hypothetically divx was to make excluding nero a part of their licensing, they have the right, but nero also has the right to launch an antitrust suit against them; but of course for such a strong accusation it's best to wait for someone from either company to clarify the situation before running with a rumor.

[Mug Funky]

IMHO both certifications are bollocks :)

surely the player only needs to support MPEG-4 ASP.

divx's format is just MPEG-4 ASP stuffed into a bastardised avi file, so why would a hardware manufacturer pay for a shiny little emblem (ie trademark)? it would suffice to simply state on the player, box, or manual that it can play divx, ditch the expensive and unnecessary logo... it would still be clear to customers that the device supports divx, but more importantly it supports mpeg-4 ASP.

[Mtz]

Hi folks,
But if you rename the .divx Files to .avi the DVD-Player plays them with FULL DivX Ultra Features (Chapters ect.) as the Zoran 888 chip they use is capable of DivX Ultra.

Mediatek based players firmware is easy (few bytes in the ARM code) to be modified to not rename the .divx to .avi to have full DMF support, by adding support for .divx extension.
Regarding Nero, the ones which support Nero Standard Profile, in firmware is banned the Cinema Profile (2.0 AAC). Cinema Profile can contain 5.1AAC. But modding again few bytes, Cinema Profile is supported. ;)
Also in latest Mediatek firmwares they banned DTS analog decoding output, but again with some work the DTS is back and full. ;)

enjoy,
Mtz

[weaver4]

IMHO both certifications are bollocks :)

surely the player only needs to support MPEG-4 ASP.

divx's format is just MPEG-4 ASP stuffed into a bastardised avi file, so why would a hardware manufacturer pay for a shiny little emblem (ie trademark)? it would suffice to simply state on the player, box, or manual that it can play divx, ditch the expensive and unnecessary logo... it would still be clear to customers that the device supports divx, but more importantly it supports mpeg-4 ASP.

Consumers are not that smart; they have no idea there is a relationship between MPEG-4 ASP and DivX. My friends company went through the DivX testing and DivX made them make several changes to their product to make it DivX complaint. He said they felt their design was complete, but DivX knew of several "got-ya's" that they were not aware of. So it appears that the Certification does have some value in compatibility for a product.

I consider myself very knowledgeable when it comes to video, but I still look for the DivX logo since I know those products have gone through DivX's testing.

[mr soft]

This has to be the most scandalous I have read in a long time.
What your all saying is , that Mr. Zoran and his team have made a very nice, capable chipset, to have it hindered by what can only be described, as a form of D:R:M .

Consumers are not that smart

I imagine this is what Nero and Divvy are counting on.
Manufactures will be passing on these (testing, logo, and license) costs to unsuspecting public; this is after Nero and Divvy charge for their encoding package. Shame Shame.

Would it not be more appropriate to put the Zoran logo on the front, surely by knowing what chipset was inside I could determine which formats were playable.
Call me paranoid, but is this possibly why manufacturers are reluctant about printing chipset specs.
Three cheers for all the thoughtful hackers out there right now, updating firmware so we can watch the format of "our" choice.

Ps I like your theories crnagora

[thekid]

Now I have a couple of theories:

1. The evil ALDI / Siemssen (Manufacturers of the Player) Company is spreading lies about my beloved DivX :angry:. And just because they don't want to pay the licensing fees for the DivX Certification. Hopefully DivX sues them. May their Players rot in hell :D.


Your theory number 1 is correct. We have no such requirements to block anybody. Whether we will sue or not i'll leave up to our legal team. :p

thanks for bringing this to my attention, i'll make sure our certification guys know about this

[crnagora]

Your theory number 1 is correct. We have no such requirements to block anybody. Whether we will sue or not i'll leave up to our legal team. :p

thanks for bringing this to my attention, i'll make sure our certification guys know about this

Thanks thekid for clearing things up. The world is safe again (For now :devil: ).

PS.:
If you need translations of the german stuff: Just ask.

[crnagora]

Pay licences for certifications?
you mean the compliant decoding of a public standard(Well.. displayed at least)?

wow real terms for legal action there

Well, I got no problem with the certification itself. It guarantees that the Player has passed X tests and meets all the requirements. It's like Microsoft with their WHQL Driver-stuff. Drivers without it mostly work fine too, but with the logo you can be 100% sure (Well with MS stuff you can't be 100% sure ;) ).

The Problem is the blocking of other companies and/or containers. The Zoran 888 Chip is DivX Ultra certified so it can handle the DivX-Container with all the fancy stuff (Menues, Chapters ect.). But then this blocking talk came up.

I'm glad that thekid has cleared things up.