Quitime, MP4 and x264

[krieger2005]

Hi,

i encoded some files in x264 to a MP4-File (using MeGui). That files does not play with Quicktime but with MPlayer (ffdshow as decoder). As i understand i used a profile or some settings which the Quicktime-h264-Decoder does not support. I used the settings which DeathTheSheep (http://gabextreme.googlepages.com/DeathTheSheep_x264_VfW_guide.html) suggested.

1. Do one think that the decoder of Quicktime will ever develop so it can also play that files?
2. Can someone say what exactly settings are wrong?

I used this command "mp4box -par 1=16:15 <filename.mp4>" to change the AR of the PAL Video to 4:3. It seems that the most programs can't interprete this. Is this a not official way to change the AR?

[bond]

I used the settings which DeathTheSheep (http://gabextreme.googlepages.com/DeathTheSheep_x264_VfW_guide.html) suggested.try the quicktime profile of megui

1. Do one think that the decoder of Quicktime will ever develop so it can also play that files?i doubt it

I used this command "mp4box -par 1=16:15 <filename.mp4>" to change the AR of the PAL Video to 4:3. It seems that the most programs can't interprete this. Is this a not official way to change the AR? it is the correct way, but probably quicktime doesnt support it, because quicktime is crap

[burfadel]

try the quicktime profile of megui

i doubt it

it is the correct way, but probably quicktime doesnt support it, because quicktime is crap

Don't go around saying Quicktime is crap, its an insult to all the other crap out there :D

[giandrea]

If you are using Quicktime for Mac OS X, install the Perian component beta (http://www.perian.org/beta.html), and you will be able to play back High Profile H264 (along with Matroska, MKV and many other formats).

[PuzZLeR]

Apple politics. Steve Jobs always was into details.

Yes QuickTime has its quirks (at least on Windows), and tends to choke on some implementations of H.264, however, sadly I have to admit, it's become my benchmark.

Given the profile, and setting, if it plays in QuickTime smoothly, it can play pretty much anywhere.

A standard? Maybe.

[krieger2005]

The reason why i started to use x264 you can read here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=124944). In short: I've searched for a codec which give good compress-ratios but also support alpha-channel for archivate of videos. In the end there are no good ones so foxyshadis suggested using xvid or logarith (or other lossless codecs).

Since i have bad experiences with xvid and used logarith till then i started using x264 (to get good compression-ration). The usage of mp4-container is because all adobe-movie-progs support quicktime and i use them for video-edition.

But now, since it seems that quicktime will not develop it's decoder so it will give the full H.264-support i must look for an other solution... sad.

[Blue_MiSfit]

QuickTime may not be on the cutting edge when it comes to distribution formats. And it really does suck in Windows. No doubt about it.

However, in Mac OS X, its production formats are quite good, especially all the neat-o ones that are being introduced with Final Cut Studio 2 (especially the new semi lossless 4:2:2 one for high speed multistream HD editing)

It's also a pretty good container, well suited for editing, as opposed to all this silly stuff we use for DVD backup :)

But yeah, if QuickTime plays it, everything will...

If you need to use QuickTime to make lossless with alpha intermediates between applications, then sheer video is a good option. Look it up. It's not free, but it's damned good.

~MiSfit

[krieger2005]

@Blue_MiSfit: I'm on an Intel-Machine, not on a Mac.

I have tried now to use the Quicktime-Profile in MeGui and created a short MP4-File (200 Frames). When i try to open it with the Quicktime-Player it first will not play. After i push the Play-Button it shows movie. But there is still a Problem. When i import the Movie in After Effects it show a framerate of 0,12 (real framerate is 25). After correcting the framerate the movie results in a one-frame-movie.

What's the problem here? Maybe someone can help.

[bond]

how do you correct the framerate?

[krieger2005]

I don't know how the name is in english (i'm german), but it is a function within AfterEffects. You click on the File (within AE) and choose "interpret Footage". The you can set your own Framerate.

[Blue_MiSfit]

Well, the file should play in QuickTime. What version do you have installed?

Either your QuickTime profile in MeGUI is goofed up, or your QuickTime is. (Possibly out of date)

~Misfit

[krieger2005]

It does play in quicktime. BUT: when i open the mp4-file in quicktimeplayer it shows a white screen. Default it shows the first frame of the movie. After pushing the Play-Button it plays fine.

Just deleted all my Megui-Profiles and redownloaded them. I have Quicktime-Version is 7.1.5. Same Problem.

I thinks it is this "first" frame which produce the problem, which let show quicktime first a white frame. after pushing the play button and reverse again to frame 0 it shows the right frame 0.

I used a avisynth-script to look the differences between original and produced MP4-File. And the first frame does not exist in the MP4-File. The transcoded MP4-File started with the second-Frame of the Original-Movie (decoder was ffdshow).

EDIT: Does just some more testing. Compared first the last frames, and surprise: the last frame of the MP4-File was the pre-last of the original movie. The framecount of the MP4-File was the same. Looked at the middle of the movie and all frames are in some way shifted or halfshifted (shifted in time). Decoder was ffdshow. Maybe a bug in x264? I use the version 0.54.635

BTW: The command-line which megui used for transcoding was this one
--pass 2 --bitrate 1000 --stats ".stats" --ref 5 --bframes 1 --b-rdo --direct auto --subme 6 --trellis 1 --analyse p8x8,b8x8,i4x4,p4x4 --vbv-maxrate 25000 --me umh --threads auto --thread-input --progress --no-psnr --no-ssim --output "" ""

[Selur]

'--ref 5' better use '--ref 3'

[krieger2005]

Changing --ref to 3 does not help. I just tried to look if the container-format was wrong and created with same settings a MKV-File. Because i had not a DS-Matroska-Splitter i installed the Haali-Splitter and after this the frames are displayed in the right order! For both formats, MP4 and MKV.

I don't know which splitter was used before... Had ffdshow one build in or does MPC? This one which are used on my PC before to display the Movies has a Bug!

But the Problem with Quicktime is the same. White Screen in QT-Payer and a 1-Frame-Movie in After Effects (with false FPS when loading). When trying to look the movie in AE it display first curious mouse cursors. When hovering about the play-button or the search-line it display (describing on this image (http://www.blogiseverything.com/files/pics/vista_aero_cursors.gif)) aero_ew or aero_ns. After pushing the playbutton (in AE-Player) the cursor is displayed right.

What could this be?

[bond]

quicktime is crap, try encoding without b-frames

[krieger2005]

Bad to hear this and to see that this is true. I have enough. I will do the job with the best settings and hope the software will grow. Till then i will use avs-scripts with pseudo-avimaker to create needed Video-Files and import in AE.

Thank you all for your help.

[Ritsuka]

QuickTime supports only one reference frame.

[krieger2005]

Then the profile in MeGUI is wrong? In the Profile it is set at default to 5. "Mixed Reference Frames" is set off. what of both do you mean? Or something different?

[Selur]

@Ritsuka: Sorry, that's wrong.
Encoding files with:
--pass 2 --bitrate 1000 --stats ".stats" --level 4.1 --ref 5 --no-fast-pskip --bframes 3 --b-rdo --bime --weightb --direct auto --filter -1,-1 --subme 7 --trellis 1 --analyse p8x8,b8x8,i4x4 --qpmin 1 --qpstep 16 --vbv-maxrate 25000 --b-bias 20 --me umh --threads auto --thread-input --progress --no-psnr --no-ssim --output "" "" --no-ssim
produces files that play fine in quicktime over here
ref=1 might be needed if you use a streaming server but for normal progressive download ref3 and ref5 cause no problem.
(mixed references are not supported by quicktime atm)

Cu Selur