Can anyone help me adjust gamma, brightness, etc?

[Rekrul]

Using Media Player Classic and ffdshow, I can adjust every aspect of the image, such as the brightness, contrast, saturation, gamma, etc.

The problem is that I can't seem to find a good balance on my monitor. No matter how I adjust the settings, I can only seem to make the picture look good in light OR dark scenes, but not both.

When the daylight images look good with nice contrast, vibrant colors, etc, the dark scenes are so dark that you're basically watching a black scene with an occasional bit of movement.

When I adjust the settings so that I can actually see what's happening in dark scenes, the daylight scenes are far too bright. Faces look like they have spotlights shining on them, clouds disappear into a white sky, etc.

I get the impression that there should be some combination of settings that would give me an even balance between the two, but I can't seem to find it. I also have no clue how to use the controls in ffdshow's Levels section. I tried the Auto setting, but that did a terrible job of adjusting the levels.

In the past, I've tried to follow some of the guides on the net intended to help you adjust Windows and/or your monitor to the proper settings, but I had the same problem. In order to see all the various subtle shades, I had to turn the gamma up so high that any light colors were all washed out.

I know that there are no absolute values since everyone''s system and monitor will be different, but can anyone suggest some good values to start with? Or help me understand how I might use the various controls in ffdshow to brighten dark scenes without completely washing out light scenes? Is there a guide to ffdshow's various settings?

[Keepitsimple]

What are you watching on? It requires quite a good screen to display a combination of dark and light scenes well.

If you have a projector its largely dependent on your room as well. Reflections from white walls will kill the details in dark scenes.

holla

[setarip_old]

@Rekrul

Hi!

Most, if not all, Lucasfilm DVDs include a video adjustment program...

[Rekrul]

What are you watching on? It requires quite a good screen to display a combination of dark and light scenes well.

I'm watching them on a 19 inch CRT monitor.

@Rekrul

Hi!

Most, if not all, Lucasfilm DVDs include a video adjustment program...

I don't own any Lucasfilm DVDs.

[setarip_old]

I don't own any Lucasfilm DVDs.I believe you may be able to find them available somewhere on a rental basis...

[Rekrul]

I believe you may be able to find them available somewhere on a rental basis...

I already have screen adjustment controls in my video card driver and in ffdshow. I'd rather not have to install another piece of software that duplicates what I already have.

Can anyone suggest how to adjust the controls in ffdshow to get a better gamma/brightness setting?

[setarip_old]

I'd rather not have to install another piece of softwareJust as a point of information, there is no software installation involved in the Lucas program - it runs directly from the DVD.

I'm sure someone will provide you with theffdshow-specific information you're seeking ;>}

[Seb.26]

all THX movies have the THX optimizer ... ;)

[Rekrul]

all THX movies have the THX optimizer ... ;)

I haven't seen the THX optimizer, but seeing as how it's designed to be used on TV sets as well as monitors, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you're supposed to optimize your display by adjusting the brightness and contrast until some box becomes visible/invisible, or until you can see all the steps in a solor chart or something similar.

I have looked at several of these types of guides on the net. My monitor has only three controls that affect the picture, the temperature, brightness and contrast. All guides start out by telling you to select 6500K. Done (it's the default anyway). Then they tell you to turn the contrast up to max. Done (I had it on max anyway). Then they tell you to stand a certain distance away, blur you eyes and focus on some kind of a color chart while adjusting the brightness until something condition is met (a grey sqaure blends in with the background, the grey spot appears at a certain point, etc). It really doesn't matter what the condition is because the only way I can meet it is exactly the same for every one of them; Turn the brightness up to 100%.

This makes the desktop and every program I use much too bright. Light grey becomes almost white, all the colors look washed out and videos have the same problem as when I adjust the controls in ffdshow; Dark scenes look fine, but light scenes are too bright and the colors are all washed out.

If I turn down the contrast, the image gets darker and colors get duller.

Seeing as how I'm happy with the appearance of Windows itself and most all the programs that I use every day, I'm not really in a big hurry to screw that up by cranking every setting on my monitor up to max.

I want to adjust the image in VIDEOS. Most of these are in AVI or Mpeg format, for which ffdshow is normally used. Since ffdshow includes a full set of picture controls, plus a bunch of others that I don't even know how to use, it seems logical to me that I should be able to use the controls in ffdshow to adjust the image in the ONE thing on my system that I'm unhappy with the appearance of.

Does this make sense to anyone else?

[setarip_old]

Doesn't your videocard have separate adjustment tools for VIDEO (That don't impact your desktop)?

[Rekrul]

Doesn't your videocard have separate adjustment tools for VIDEO (That don't impact your desktop)?

I can adjust the brightness and contrast for the Overlay, but the gamma slider is greyed out. Overlay is the only option that affects only the video.

[Zo®G]

Try YlevelsS(0,1.6,255,0,255) Didee's script with FFdshow Avisynth.

[Zo®G]

Not from FFDshow, only with Avisynth script! In FFdshow it was not properly implemented, with FFdshow Levels with the same parameters the picture is too bright in dark scenes but normal too my eyes in bright scenes, with avisynth YlevelsS script brightnes is good with all scenes (bright and dark too).

[Rekrul]

Not from FFDshow, only with Avisynth script! In FFdshow it was not properly implemented, with FFdshow Levels with the same parameters the picture is too bright in dark scenes but normal too my eyes in bright scenes, with avisynth YlevelsS script brightnes is good with all scenes (bright and dark too).

Not to sound ungrateful, but this is getting a lot more complicated than I thought. I don't have a clue what Avisynth is or how to use it.

[Peuj]

Not from FFDshow, only with Avisynth script! In FFdshow it was not properly implemented, with FFdshow Levels with the same parameters the picture is too bright in dark scenes but normal too my eyes in bright scenes, with avisynth YlevelsS script brightnes is good with all scenes (bright and dark too).

humm maybe I'm wrong but in the latest tryout builds http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=173941 for the Level section you can select the Mode Didee's YlevelsS.

I think it's the same that one you can use with Avisynth.

[Rekrul]

humm maybe I'm wrong but in the latest tryout builds http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=173941 for the Level section you can select the Mode Didee's YlevelsS.

I think it's the same that one you can use with Avisynth.

I see those in my version, but selecting them from the drop-down menu doesn't change anything.

[Peuj]

I see those in my version, but selecting them from the drop-down menu doesn't change anything.

Maybe there is something broken in ffdshwo ? I will ask on the forum.

have you read this thread: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=120718&page=2

There is some good information.

[Peuj]

I see those in my version, but selecting them from the drop-down menu doesn't change anything.

for the use of Levels you can check this thread too:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=113991&highlight=ColorYUV

[Rekrul]

for the use of Levels you can check this thread too:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=113991&highlight=ColorYUV

Thanks, but I must be missing something. Adjusting the levels doesn't seem to do anything different than adjusting the overall gamma. If I use the levels to make dark scenes brighter, it also makes light scenes lighter by the same amount. If I use it to make light scenes darker, it also makes dark scenes darker by the same amount.

Any settings that make dark scenes watchable also make the daylight scenes too bright and washed out.

[foxyshadis]

A curves filter would probably fix everything for you, but I don't know whether any video filters or driver control panels offer that.

Maybe your CRT is just dying, they get dimmer and contrast degrades over time. If it's no longer calibratable via hardware or software, maybe it's time to find another. If you can score a trinitron on the cheap, try that and see if you can get the full highs and lows now without fooling around with it. Or take a look at high-end LCDs with high contrast ratios; just be aware that the lower the contrast ratio, the more pronounced this exact problem is on LCDs.

Personally, I can't fathom using a calibrated screen for day-to-day use. I always use it with brightness and contrast minimized, and that's often too high still, and 6500K is just way too orangey. I only set it to semi-calibrated for graphics work, and a completely different profile for movies.

[setarip_old]

@Rekrul

Have you tried pressing the "Degauss" button on your CRT monitor?

[Rekrul]

A curves filter would probably fix everything for you, but I don't know whether any video filters or driver control panels offer that.

In ffdshow's Levels section, you can select a Curve option. This gives you a square box with a diagonal line from lower left to upper right. You can grab as many points as you want and deform them into all kinds of curves. I can never seem to do anything useful with it though. It also has the option to load curves from disk. No idea what format it would use though.

Any advice you can offer on how it should be adjusted?

BTW, my video card's driver (Nvidia) has a color control section and it has a similar curve box when you select the Advanced controls.

Maybe your CRT is just dying, they get dimmer and contrast degrades over time.

It's only a year or two old. I bought it brand new.

Or take a look at high-end LCDs with high contrast ratios; just be aware that the lower the contrast ratio, the more pronounced this exact problem is on LCDs.

I don't particularly like LCD monitors. They look good in their native resolution, but most anything else looks lousy.

Personally, I can't fathom using a calibrated screen for day-to-day use. I always use it with brightness and contrast minimized, and that's often too high still, and 6500K is just way too orangey. I only set it to semi-calibrated for graphics work, and a completely different profile for movies.

That's why I'd like to find a way to adjust ffdshow. Then only movies would be affected.

[Rekrul]

@Rekrul

Have you tried pressing the "Degauss" button on your CRT monitor?

Occasionally, just as a preventative measure. What's that supposed to do for the color?

[setarip_old]

Click on the following link:

http://www.pcguide.com/ref/crt/crtGauss-c.html

The image quality of the monitor, especially the color, can be adversely affected if the internal components become magnetized.

[Rekrul]

Click on the following link:

http://www.pcguide.com/ref/crt/crtGauss-c.html



Ok, thanks for the link. That doesn't seem to be the case for me. My monitor doesn't have any strange splotches of color. Also, my monitor degausses when you first turn it on, judging by the sounds it makes.

[setarip_old]

Then it's likely as was speculated earlier, your monitor is "on the way out"...

[Zo®G]

I use Haali Video Renderer with RGB32+HQ Color Space (with the YUY2 the same results). TV to PC scale was doing in the renderer. And the diferences is watchable when i use FFDshow Levels with selected Didee YlevelsS and when i use AviSynth with Didee YlevelsS (i use FFDshow rev1074 ICL9 SSE build and both with the same parameter (0,1.6,255,0,255)). Look at this theard: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=79898 and you can see wat the Ylevels can doo with the image. With it? the image looks good at bright and at dark scenes. I can't screenshots at this time. I'm at work and screenshots at home.

[Rekrul]

I use Haali Video Renderer with RGB32+HQ Color Space (with the YUY2 the same results). TV to PC scale was doing in the renderer. And the diferences is watchable when i use FFDshow Levels with selected Didee YlevelsS and when i use AviSynth with Didee YlevelsS (i use FFDshow rev1074 ICL9 SSE build and both with the same parameter (0,1.6,255,0,255)). Look at this theard: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=79898 and you can see wat the Ylevels can doo with the image. With it? the image looks good at bright and at dark scenes. I can't screenshots at this time. I'm at work and screenshots at home.

I looked at that thread and didn't understand a word of it. :confused:

Just to make things clear;

I have never used a video editing program in my life. I have never encoded any video, I have never re-encoded any video (unless selecting it in Nero and telling it to produce a VCD counts). I have never used fancy image processing software.

I know what RGB is, I know what Brightness and Contrast do. I sort of know what Gamma does, but I'm still not clear on exactly how Brightness and Gamma differ, all I know is that rasing the Gamma usually gives better results than raising the Brightness.

I downloaded Media Player Classic, I installed ffdshow, I loaded up a video, it appeared too dark, so I adjusted the Brightness, Contrast and Gamma until the dark scenes were watchable. This made daylight scenes too bright. I re-adjusted it to make daylight scenes look good and dark scenes were once again unwatchable.

That is the extent of my knowledge of adjusting the color/gamma in videos.

Most all of the links I've been referred to assume that the user already has some idea of how levels work, what curves do, etc. I don't. I look at the various threads telling people to try settings of 1,0,255,240,16 an I have no idea what to do with those numbers. There are five numbers and when I go to the Levels section and there are four main controls I can set. The only thread that I could follow at all was the one with a screenshot of ffdshow's Levels options, which showed the controls at different settings. THAT I could follow. It didn't do what I wanted though.

Unless you can explain in simple terms how Levels and curves work, or provide specific settings for ffdshow, or link to a thread that provides either, I'm not going to be able to follow any of your advice.

[foxyshadis]

Well, the obvious problems are ruled out, and since this is the monitor you want to stick with, you just have to make do, calibratable or no.
http://foxyshadis.slightlydark.com/random/curves.png
This sort of curve will lower contrast of darks and brights. Horizontal is zero contrast and vertical is infinite. You say that when you calibrate to the best of your ability, either the darks or the brights blow out, but not both, so what I'd suggest is get it back to the point where darks come out fine (as they're harder to recover later), then apply a curve similar to the upper right on the video. Don't make the lower left, as that'll expand the dark areas and under-contrast them. You'll need to change it depending on exactly how highlights bunch up in yours, but it's the basic idea.

Also, I think I'll add input/output tags to the curves (that I somehow didn't even know were there), so it's more obvious what changes what.

The basic idea behind levels is: All input is clipped to lower and upper limits (anything above or below is set to them). That's arguments 1 & 3. Then a gamma curve, argument 2, is applied. Finally, everything is mapped from the input (1 & 3) to the output scale, args 4 & 5, based on the difference between them. If the output is wider, everything is expanded, if it's shallower they're contracted. Looking at before and after histograms is the best way to be enlightened as to their behavior.

Curves is just a spline curve that passes through the extremeties as well as user-defined points, mapping every value in the input to an output matching the curve. It's just a graph that goes from 0-255 on each side. They're more flexible than levels but much easier to screw up. :p

[Rekrul]

Well, the obvious problems are ruled out, and since this is the monitor you want to stick with, you just have to make do, calibratable or no.
http://foxyshadis.slightlydark.com/random/curves.png
This sort of curve will lower contrast of darks and brights. Horizontal is zero contrast and vertical is infinite. You say that when you calibrate to the best of your ability, either the darks or the brights blow out, but not both, so what I'd suggest is get it back to the point where darks come out fine (as they're harder to recover later), then apply a curve similar to the upper right on the video. Don't make the lower left, as that'll expand the dark areas and under-contrast them. You'll need to change it depending on exactly how highlights bunch up in yours, but it's the basic idea.

Also, I think I'll add input/output tags to the curves (that I somehow didn't even know were there), so it's more obvious what changes what.

The basic idea behind levels is: All input is clipped to lower and upper limits (anything above or below is set to them). That's arguments 1 & 3. Then a gamma curve, argument 2, is applied. Finally, everything is mapped from the input (1 & 3) to the output scale, args 4 & 5, based on the difference between them. If the output is wider, everything is expanded, if it's shallower they're contracted. Looking at before and after histograms is the best way to be enlightened as to their behavior.

Curves is just a spline curve that passes through the extremeties as well as user-defined points, mapping every value in the input to an output matching the curve. It's just a graph that goes from 0-255 on each side. They're more flexible than levels but much easier to screw up. :p

Thank you for this. I didn't really understand the explanation, but the example curve was easy enough to duplicate. It seems to come closer to what I want to do. I'll need to play with the other settings though. Adding that curve to my existing settings makes the colors look washed out in all scenes.

Thank you again.

[Mc Onyx]

Do you have a Nvidia card? Lately their drivers (for me), like have some kind of bug, because the picture in movies using overlays is very dark. I have to calibrate in the drivers, but never seem to get the picture i remember having before in the older drivers. Maybe it has something to do with RGB gamma, but even if i turn it off, it doesn't help. I've come to accept that and just use the nearest setting i think is ok, but it's never perfect like before. And before i just used the default settings, but seems the default is different now. :(

[Rekrul]

Do you have a Nvidia card? Lately their drivers (for me), like have some kind of bug, because the picture in movies using overlays is very dark. I have to calibrate in the drivers, but never seem to get the picture i remember having before in the older drivers.

Yes, I have an Nvidia GeForce4 MX440. The earliest driver I've used was one of the 5x.xx versions and videos were the same for me.