Other MPEG2 encoders vs. Cinemacraft

[jaycun]

Hi everyone,

I am working on a project for a family member. Quality is a high priority. I've been looking at encoding the video before distribution with Cinemacraft's MPEG2 encoder (I heard from a friend that is was the "best" MPEG2 encoder).

Before I spend money on anything, I was wondering how Cinemacraft compares with some of the other MPEG2 encoders like QuEnc and TMPGEnc, etc in terms of quality.

Thanks
jaycun

[kevo777]

I don't feel that any money has to be spent. I use QuEnc and HCEnc and really can't tell a difference between the two. I used TMPGEnc in the past but I've never used CCE so I can't comment on if it's worth spending the money. QuEnc and HCEnc are simply fantastic encoders, and free to boot!

[Rumbah]

I use HCEnc for all my mpeg2 encodes and I am very happy with the quality.

[chickenmonger]

From what I've seen, CCE is the way to go for commercial products, since, as far as I know, its purchase price includes some MPEG2 licensing fees (http://www.mpegla.com/m2/m2-agreement.cfm). Our friends HCenc, QuEnc, and AutoQMatEnc are free, so obviously do not contain that licensing fee.

For personal or research use, however, the free encoders are the best bang for $0 you could ask for, and they keep improving.

[Fishman0919]

A test I just did LINK (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=973580#post973580)

[xbox360]

ffmpeg Rocks !

[45tripp]

ffmpeg Rocks !
Could you share your method.

Procoder should also be mentioned as it's an excellent encoder, and often no1 choice when working with a DV source.

[Fishman0919]

Could you share your method.

Procoder should also be mentioned as it's an excellent encoder, and often no1 choice when working with a DV source.

In my test it is.

[jaycun]

Thank you very much for all the wonderful replies!

I am a little confused about PSNR ratings though. Are they supposed to indicate visual quality?

I also found a trial version of CCE Basic and am running my own little tests on some source material. I am very impressed with the speed of HCEnc .20. I like the options that both CCE and QuEnc offer and the control that it allows over the compression.

BTW...the videos that I will be encoding are DV-AVI and NTSC interlaced. I've think NTSC interlaced video is bottom field first. Am I right?

[Blue_MiSfit]

NTSC DV is BFF, that's correct :)

I would STRONGLY suggest HC. Version .20 is absolutely amazing.

CCE is still very good, and very fast however...

~MiSfit

[xbox360]

Please learn to use ffmpeg which is FREE & is Great Quality before spending your money ! You can Download the Latest Version here:

http://ffdshow.faireal.net/mirror/ffmpeg/

[dragongodz]

Please learn to use ffmpeg which is FREE & is Great Quality before spending your money !
or he can try QuEnc and HC as mentioned already, both of which are free aswell and very easy to use.

[danpos]

@xbox360

I'm agreed with you: right now I'm using only GNU/Linux applications and ffmpeg is doing a very nice job to low bitrate encodings (~ 2200 Kbps), using OPV. ;)

Regards,

[Mug Funky]

as far as I know, its purchase price includes some MPEG2 licensing fees.

for DVD, the replicator actually covers the licensing costs - it's paid per-disc. however, i'm not sure if simply using an MPEG-2 encoder commercially incurs fees on top of that. the relevant documents don't really relate to each other, but the impression given by the DVD specific stuff is that all the fees are covered per-disc.

[jaycun]

Thank you for all your replies and information each has contributed. xbox360, thanks for the link to the ffmpeg builds (I can use them on my linux box).

I am still a little clueless about PSNR scores. I know they measure quality, but how(i need a layman's explanation)? With all due respect, I wish to bring up a few points that I think will make clearer the use of the encoder.

First, this is not a commercial project and I don't foresee any commercial usages in the future.

Second, the encoder must run on Windows XP (or 2000). I should mention that I will not be the primary user for the encoder (another family member will be using it while I'm absent). I am only doing a couple pilot projects and finding out what is the "best" for our purposes. I don't object to learning ffmpeg, but the primary user (my dad) will not have anything to do with command line interfaces. This brings me to my third point

Third, the encoder must have a gui. The primary user of this encoder will not use a command line interface. It must be a reasonably fast encoder too.

HCEnc .2 and CCE Basic both fit the bill. So does QuEnc to a large extent (it's not quite as fast as HCEnc or CCE, but still within reason).

Have a great day/night everyone!
BTW...is there a version of FFmpeg for Windows?

[xbox360]

The ffmpeg download link works for all windows.

[45tripp]

PSNR
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_signal-to-noise_ratio
It measures mathematical proximity of encoded images to source images.
It's the poorest of visual objective metrics.
Better metrics are based on models of the Human Visual System(HVS).

HC requires Avisynth script input.
Quite easy. But a requirement to consider as you want the easiest functionality for the end user.

TMPG Xpress is very user friendly and a precise encoder.
It's also god awfully slow with interlaced material though.

I think Procoder is the best choice for you as you'll be working mostly with DV.
Procoder Express is easy to use, cheap enough and provides the procoder quality. It is has however been discontinued (or is to be) I hear. Procoder 2 is fantastic. And Procoder 3 has been anounced.

[jaycun]

The ffmpeg download link works for all windows.

Thank you very much....I didn't know that ffmpeg ran on windows. The closest thing I knew of was ffdshow. Maybe I might write a simple *.bat interface to it. BTW...QuEnc is based off ffmpeg right? So that means ffmpeg has the quality of QuEnc on the PSNR chart, right?

And thanks for the info on PSNR, I'll read more about it tomorrow when I have more time.

BTW...playing with HCEnc .2, I've noticed that none of the videos have any sound. How do I get HCEnc to encode audio with the video?

[Mr_Odwin]

Thank you very much....I didn't know that ffmpeg ran on windows. The closest thing I knew of was ffdshow. Maybe I might write a simple *.bat interface to it. BTW...QuEnc is based off ffmpeg right? So that means ffmpeg has the quality of QuEnc on the PSNR chart, right?

And thanks for the info on PSNR, I'll read more about it tomorrow when I have more time.

BTW...playing with HCEnc .2, I've noticed that none of the videos have any sound. How do I get HCEnc to encode audio with the video?

HC doesn't do audio - I use aften for ac3 and twolame for mp2.

[dragongodz]

So does QuEnc to a large extent (it's not quite as fast as HCEnc or CCE, but still within reason).
you should check the tests(theres a few now) done in Fishman0919's link he gave.

[kevo777]

HC simply produces an elementary stream (m2v). As Mr_Odwin mentioned, use Aften to produce an AC3 audio track. Here's my process with DV

Load the AVI into VirtualDubMOD - Streams menu - Save WAV
Load the WAV into Aften's GUI - EncWAVtoAC3
Load a script into HCEnc
avisource("my_dv_project.avi")

If this ends up on DVD, I'll mux the AC3 track from Aften with with M2V file from HC with GUI for dvdauthor.

[xbox360]

QuEnc has some video timing issues, the result file time is always faster or slower than the original & loves interlaced (which is very bad)

[Mr_Odwin]

QuEnc has some video timing issues, the result file time is always faster or slower than the original & loves interlaced (which is very bad)

This is just untrue. The resultant file is not always faster or slower, in fact, I have yet to come across this problem. Do you have evidence to support this?

[jaycun]

Hi everyone,

Thanks for explaining about the audio "issue" with HCEnc. When muxing audio back with the video file, can that be done losslessly (ie without having to recompress the video)? What kind of software will join the encoded audio back with the video (VirtualDubMOD?)

I found an AC3 encoder called Aften. It is any good?
http://aften.sourceforge.net/

[xbox360]

This is true because there is no auto detect source so all the frame rate & stuff like whether the source is interlace or not must be inputed or else the result file will be wrong timing.

[dragongodz]

QuEnc has some video timing issues, the result file time is always faster or slower than the original
This is true because there is no auto detect source so all the frame rate

xbox360 - you have no clue what the hell you are talking about. QuEnc, just like HC and infact any encoder encoding from an avisynth script, gets the framerate from avisynth, which gets it from the actual decoder. if the decoder is somehow getting the framerate wrong then how the hell can you blame QuEnc ?
there are a lot of people that have both used and continue to use QuEnc and you are the only person to make these ridiculous claims.

loves interlaced (which is very bad)
like whether the source is interlace or not must be inputed
what the hell are you on ? the only problem i have ever heard about someone not setting interlaced encoding when the source has been is slight jerkiness.
and why is interlaced"very bad" exactly ? sorry but you do not know what you are talking about.

now if you want to use ffmpeg then fine use it and recommend it all you like. do NOT however spread such F.U.D. here.

[jaycun]

interesting....

If QuEnc is so bad, then ffmpeg also be at fault also because QuEnc _uses_ the ffmpeg library...

http://www.bitburners.com/QuEnc/
"QuEnc is a "MPEG-1/MPEG-2/MPEG-4 capable video encoder based on the ffmpeg."

http://www.afterdawn.com/software/video_software/video_encoders/quenc.cfm
"QuEnc is a free, very good quality MPEG-1/MPEG-2 encoder, based on the ffmpeg encoding library."

http://www.doom9.org/index.html?/mpg/quenc.htm
"What's QuEnc? Another one of Nic's pet projects. Based on ffmpeg, QuEnc is an easy to use MPEG-2 encoder that is completely free, yet yields amazingly good quality"

The only bad experiences I've had with ffmpeg are when I was lazy or when I was testing something I was warned would probably not work. Other than that, I've had no problems with either ffmpeg or QuEnc.

BTW...does anyone know if AAC audio is supported on standard DVD players (ie is it common)?

[chickenmonger]

BTW...does anyone know if AAC audio is supported on standard DVD players (ie is it common)?

I haven't heard of any standard DVD players supporting AAC audio. Just MP2, AC3, or PCM. I may be misinformed, though.