Help Rip Indian NTSC Interlaced DVD

[sujit]

hi
i hv ripped dvds in the past without much problems. then i get this dvd. i tried so many things, but the results were not satisfactory. this is a dvd9 of an indian movie released in 2006. the dvd released in march 2007. after reading the forum, i guessed this requires repal.

dgindex(1.4.8) reported this dvd as NTSC/interlaced.
i use megui(latest) 2 rip dvds. it hs done good analysis of the dvds in the past.

this is megui's script (after analysis on the source)

# Set DAR in encoder to 47 : 20. The following line is for automatic signalling
global MeGUI_darx = 47
global MeGUI_dary = 20
DGDecode_mpeg2source("F:\test\test.d2v")
edeintted = AssumeTFF().SeparateFields().SelectEven().EEDI2(field=-1)
tdeintted = TDeint(edeint=edeintted,order=1)
tfm(order=1,clip2=tdeintted).tdecimate(hybrid=3)
crop( 2, 56, -16, -58)

Spline36Resize(720,368) # Spline36 (Neutral)


results were nt so good.
after reading, tried this

# Set DAR in encoder to 47 : 20. The following line is for automatic signalling
global MeGUI_darx = 47
global MeGUI_dary = 20
DGDecode_mpeg2source("F:\test\test.d2v")
LeakKernelBob(Order=1)
RePAL()
crop( 2, 56, -16, -58)

Spline36Resize(720,368) # Spline36 (Neutral)


either way, i am not happy vt the output. there is 2 much ghosting and in some scenes, its choppy.

i hv uploaded a sample here (http://www.esnips.com/doc/43893a32-8a8a-4760-acef-ec17f98e5b1a/lrm)

plz help me
thankx in advance:)

[Mug Funky]

yep, repal or one of the other "unblenders".

i know there were probably hundreds of bollywood films released lat year, but any idea of the title? they can be a real mixed bunch. the annoying thing is that India should be PAL, but for some reason most of the DVD releases i've seen have been converted to NTSC, or native NTSC with bollocked chroma (incorrect subsampling).

[sujit]

hey thats a real quick reply. thankx
the movie title is lage raho munnabhai.
i agree vt u, most of the dvds relased in india are NTSC (no idea wat the reason could b). don (2006) ws also NTSC, but ripping it ws pretty easy and results were good.
i am having a real hard time ripping this mov.
it would be gr8 if u could help me vt the script. as i hv mentioned, i hv used this script
# Set DAR in encoder to 47 : 20. The following line is for automatic signalling
global MeGUI_darx = 47
global MeGUI_dary = 20
DGDecode_mpeg2source("F:\test\test.d2v")
LeakKernelBob(Order=1)
RePAL()
crop( 2, 56, -16, -58)
Spline36Resize(720,368) # Spline36 (Neutral)


so am i on the right track? could u plz help me modify/tweak this script so i can get better results?
thankx in advance:)

[Appu]

Why do you want to do a RePal here?.. Most of the Indian TV's support PAL and NTSC.

[techreactor]

Have you tried ripit4me ???, it works on all DVD's

[techreactor]

Why do you want to do a RePal here?.. Most of the Indian TV's support PAL and NTSC.

Wrong, its not the TV, its the DVD player which should support PAL/NTSC and play accordingly.

[sujit]

the dvd plays fine on tv, i am not complaining abt that. creating a rip is a prob. the output hs lots of ghosting n is chopping in some scenes. ripit4me is a utility 4 ripping dvds 2 hdd. i am hv already acomplished this task using dvdfab.

[Appu]

the dvd plays fine on tv, i am not complaining abt that
OK.. I think I can't help much here..
Wrong, its not the TV, its the DVD player which should support PAL/NTSC and play accordingly
As per my understanding you need to have support from TV also.

[techreactor]

the dvd plays fine on tv, i am not complaining abt that. creating a rip is a prob. the output hs lots of ghosting n is chopping in some scenes. ripit4me is a utility 4 ripping dvds 2 hdd. i am hv already acomplished this task using dvdfab.


Thats why I am suggesting to do with ripit4me(fab isnt that reliable). Instead you can do a quick rip with DVD shrink( no compression) to see if the problem exists. Indian DVD's anyways dont have much encryption.

[techreactor]

OK.. I think I can't help much here..

As per my understanding you need to have support from TV also.

Nope, the DVD player converts it for a compatible playback, here its for PAL playback.

The TV thinks its coming from a PAL source and plays fine.

[sujit]

Thats why I am suggesting to do with ripit4me(fab isnt that reliable). Instead you can do a quick rip with DVD shrink( no compression) to see if the problem exists. Indian DVD's anyways dont have much encryption.

hey thankx 4 ur quick replies. i really dont think there is any prob vt the way dvd hs been copied 2 the hdd. its copied at 100% quality (DVD9). i hv used fab in the past. the prob is vt the content, its NTSC/interlaced. there r lots of posts in this forum abt this topic, but i couldnt find a script. they all hv recommened repal and some unblenders. i hv no clue hw 2 use them in a script. it would b gr8 if some1 could help me vt the script.
thnkx in advance:)

[foxyshadis]

Thats why I am suggesting to do with ripit4me(fab isnt that reliable). Instead you can do a quick rip with DVD shrink( no compression) to see if the problem exists. Indian DVD's anyways dont have much encryption.

The basic DVDFabDecryptor can't cause this behavior, all it does is create a decrypted ISO. No re-encoding. (Using the whole DVDFab encoder would be pretty noticably slower.)

What parts of what scripts aren't working? Usually all you need to do is Import() the script, and make sure you have all the plugins it needs.

[Appu]

Nope, the DVD player converts it for a compatible playback, here its for PAL playback

Just for my information.

Assume that your DVD disc is NTSC and the player produces only NTSC output video. And this is connected to a TV which supports only PAL. How does this work?

[sujit]

it would be gr8 if som1 could chk the sample in post 1 and leme kw hw 2 rip this dvd. i hv mentioned details abt the script i hv used in post 1.
thankx:)

[techreactor]

Just for my information.

Assume that your DVD disc is NTSC and the player produces only NTSC output video. And this is connected to a TV which supports only PAL. How does this work?

It wont, thats why I am saying its important for the DVD player to convert and not the TV, since usually TV's are built for a region format and for India its PAL and US,NTSC, unless you have imported one from outside your country.

Whereas most DVD players now are multi format, they can play in both PAL and NTSC. So as long as you have a multi format DVD palyer without changing any settings you can play all DVD's properly.

[techreactor]

it would be gr8 if som1 could chk the sample in post 1 and leme kw hw 2 rip this dvd. i hv mentioned details abt the script i hv used in post 1.
thankx:)

Sujit, can you just check once with the methods I described, conversion of format is not so simple and not recommended. Just check once from the original DVD using shrink. I can assure you it works with NTSC interlaced DVD's.

EDIT: Is this original DVD, from where do you get them ???

[sujit]

its original dvd (collectors edition, 2 DVDs). this dvd hs recently been launched in India.

[Appu]

It wont, thats why I am saying its important for the DVD player to convert and not the TV, since usually TV's are built for a region format and for India its PAL and US,NTSC, unless you have imported one from outside your country.

Whereas most DVD players now are multi format, they can play in both PAL and NTSC. So as long as you have a multi format DVD palyer without changing any settings you can play all DVD's properly

So it boils down to

1) Either the DVD Player should be supporting multiformat ( most of them are )

2) Or TV should be supporting multiformat.

This is what said in the beginning. Most of the Indian TVs ( unlike in US ) supports PAL and NTSC. So even if the DVD player produces only one format we do not have any issues.

[techreactor]

So it boils down to

1) Either the DVD Player should be supporting multiformat ( most of them are )

2) Or TV should be supporting multiformat.


Its not the same. Only multi format DVD player support is sufficient and multi format on the TV is not required. You will not be able to play NTSC disc on a non-supported PAL DVD player, even if your TV supports both format (NTSC/PAL) and anyways your local broadcast signals are in PAL, isnt it and if you change your TV settings to NTSC, your local broadcast will get screwed. The format change will apply to your whole TV and not only to specific inputs/channel. Check it out if you have a multi format TV.

[manono]

Hi-

As near as I can tell, the base framerate is 23.976fps, and not 24.975fps, so it's not a standard blended PAL2NTSC DVD. RePAL won't work all that well on it, and will leave behind a lot more blends than usual. But I can't get it unblended all that well myself. I'm having my best luck with CDeblend, but better people than I will have to advise you.

Also, since it uses SMPTE 170M colorimetry, it can use a bit of the ColorMatrix filter.

All these posts about what DVDs play on what TV sets are completely off track. sujit's not having any trouble playing the DVD. He wants to clean it up and remove the godawful blending. And I don't blame him. Unfortunately, Indian DVDs are probably the world's worst, and test the skills and patience of even the best encoders.

[techreactor]

All these posts about what DVDs play on what TV sets are completely off track. sujit's not having any trouble playing the DVD. He wants to clean it up and remove the godawful blending. And I don't blame him. Unfortunately, Indian DVDs are probably the world's worst, and test the skills and patience of even the best encoders.

I cannot disagree with you on this more, even the 5.1 soundtrack sucks.

anyways, no more OT discussions, sorry for that!!.

[Appu]

Its not the same. Only multi format DVD player support is sufficient and multi format on the TV is not required. You will not be able to play NTSC disc on a non-supported PAL DVD player, even if your TV supports both format (NTSC/PAL) and anyways your local broadcast signals are in PAL, isnt it and if you change your TV settings to NTSC, your local broadcast will get screwed. The format change will apply to your whole TV and not only to specific inputs/channel. Check it out if you have a multi format TV

OK..

Assume this scenario..

You have NTSC DVD disc and by default the DVD player produces NTSC video. Now this DVD player is connected to a TV that supports only PAL.
How does the DVD player knows that it is connected to a PAL TV and produces the output automatically in PAL format?.

Does it help if the TV supports both PAL and NTSC in this case?

[techreactor]

OK..

Assume this scenario..

You have NTSC DVD disc and by default the DVD player produces NTSC video. Now this DVD player is connected to a TV that supports only PAL.
How does the DVD player knows that it is connected to a PAL TV and produces the output automatically in PAL format?.

Does it help if the TV supports both PAL and NTSC in this case?

You need to setup your DVD player,for PAL output, then it knows that the output has to be in PAL even if its a NTSC disk, wherein if you setup your TV differently than your region, it screws your local cable/terrestrial channels playback.

No more OT discussions, thanks.

[Appu]

All these posts about what DVDs play on what TV sets are completely off track

I am also out.. Sujit, the thread is for you now :)

[sujit]

hi manono, thankx 4 replying.
As near as I can tell, the base framerate is 23.976fps, and not 24.975fps.
Could u plz tell me how did u come to this conclusion?
Also, could u plz provide the script that used DeBlend.
i havnt tried DeBlend and would definately like to try it.
thankx :)

[foxyshadis]

manono, did you test MRestore, as well? That can usually cope better than CDeblend with bad sources.

[manono]

Hi-

Could u plz tell me how did u come to this conclusion?

I first tried out RePAL, saw all the blends, and thought it might be 23.976fps, as RePAL results look like that when the framerate's wrong. I've seen a number of fieldblended Indian DVDs (and others) that were blended 23.976->29.97fps.

Then I put on CDeblend at 29.97fps and started looking for the duplicate frame ratio, and they averaged one in every 5 frames. Then I put on Restore24 and also tried various ways of doing the decimation using CDeblend, and couldn't get the results quite like I wanted. But I am convinced you're looking for 23.976fps, and not 24.975fps.

manono, did you test MRestore, as well? That can usually cope better than CDeblend with bad sources.

No, but at your suggestion I just did. And it says "Sorry. This version doesn't work at your chosen rate". Maybe mine's old (although it's from 11/2006). I don't know.

Edit Later: I updated my MRestore and CDeblend. I no longer get that message when using MRestore, but I'm not having much luck using it, either. Probably my inexperience with it. My best luck, with almost, but not quite, perfect results with that short clip, was with CDeblend and this core script:

ord = last.getparity() ? 1 : 0
a = tdeint(mode=1)
c = leakkernelbob(order=ord)
Cdeblend(a, clip2=c, dmode=-4)
BlendBob()
TDecimate(CycleR=3,Cycle=15,Mode=1)

It runs more slowly than you might like. You'll never get it completely unblended, as there are just too many blended fields. You want to get it playing smoothly, with as few blends as possible. Here's an XviD of that clip (44 seconds and 14 MB):

http://www.badongo.com/vid/309916

[sujit]

thankx manono
i will chk the xvid asap. i cant seem to find cdeblend anywhere. could u plz provide me link?

i just saw the clip and i am very impressed. the ghosting that i was talking about is nearly gone. thankx agn.

[manono]

Hi-

You can find MOmonster's unblending functions here:

http://forum.gleitz.info/attachment.php?attachmentid=84924&d=1166866478

And after my last post I started to work on an Indian DVD:

http://former.imdb.com/title/tt0157944/

and what did I find, but the exact same thing.

[sujit]

hi manono
And after my last post I started to work on an Indian DVD:

http://former.imdb.com/title/tt0157944/

and what did I find, but the exact same thing.
lol, njoy ur work vt the great Indian DVDs.

btw thankx, i found cdeblend.avs. this avs doesnt accept this particular line in the code
Cdeblend(a, clip2=c, dmode=-4)

so should i replace clip2 and dmode with dclip and omode respectively.
also, u have mentioned dmode=-4. is it 4 or -4? i am asking this because the avs has mentioned modes 0 to 4.

thankx in advance:) .

[manono]

Hi-

I'm using the script just as I posted earlier. That particular script is part of the CDeblend.txt readme included in the package.

Did you load the filters referenced by that line, TDeint and LeakKernelDeint?

[sujit]

hi
i did load the filters TDeint and LeakKernelDeint, but that doesnt help.
i get this error message.

http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/8673/errorjn4.jpg

this is my complete script
import("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\Cdeblend.avs")
# Set DAR in encoder to 47 : 20. The following line is for automatic signalling
global MeGUI_darx = 47
global MeGUI_dary = 20
DGDecode_mpeg2source("F:\test\test.d2v")
ord = last.getparity() ? 1 : 0
a = tdeint(mode=1)
c = leakkernelbob(order=ord)
Cdeblend(a, clip2=c, dmode=-4)
BlendBob()
TDecimate(CycleR=3,Cycle=15,Mode=1)

crop( 2, 56, -16, -58)

Spline36Resize(720,368) # Spline36 (Neutral)
#denoise


even if i do a loadplugin, i get this message.

thnkx :)

[manono]

Hi-

Well, after checking the version I'm using, I learned it's old, and there's no longer a clip2 parameter. I'm very sorry. So, take your script from the Cdeblend.avs, perhaps something like:

Tdeint(Mode=1)
Cdeblend()

You'll also have to decimate to the final framerate (I was using BlendBob together with TDecimate), and maybe tweak the Cdeblend parameters to optimize the blend detection.

Again, I apologize for wasting your time. If you happen to want the version I'm using, PM me and I'll send it to you, but newer is usually better. I'm using v1.0, and we're at v1.1b now.

[sujit]

hi
thankx manono for all your help, you have been great. i did some testing for the different omode parameters for cdeblend. omode=2 gives me the good results. so, my final script is

import("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\Cdeblend.avs")
# Set DAR in encoder to 47 : 20. The following line is for automatic signalling
global MeGUI_darx = 47
global MeGUI_dary = 20
DGDecode_mpeg2source("F:\test\test.d2v")
ord = last.getparity() ? 1 : 0
a = tdeint(mode=1)
c = leakkernelbob(order=ord)
Cdeblend(a, dclip=c, omode=2)
BlendBob()
TDecimate(CycleR=3,Cycle=15,Mode=1)

crop( 2, 56, -16, -58)

Spline36Resize(720,368) # Spline36 (Neutral)
#denoise


i hope i havnt made any silly mistakes.
thankx agn:)

[munnasunna]

This thread helped me too. Thanks sujit and manono :) But unfortunately getting 2fps encoding speed :(

[manono]

It runs more slowly than you might like.
Hehe, don't say I didn't warn about that script. You need powerful computers to get decent speed from some of these scripts. You might try MRestore which has a rate parameter. Or you might skip the BlendBob line, since BlendBob is real slow, and just decimate after CDeblend. And you might use a different decimator. TIVTC has a bunch of them, and most are a bit faster than the one I used, I think. You might even try and get Restore24 going, but that can be difficult. You'll have to search for information on it, and how to set it up.

[sujit]

This thread helped me too. Thanks sujit and manono
glad to hear that.
speaking for slow encoding, i encoded 3 vobs (1GB each) of this particular movie and it took me 24 hrs (11hr for first pass and rest for second pass). hey i am not complaning, i am happy that i found solution to the prob (thankx to manono).
i am using x264 (HQ Insane).
quality is simply mindblowing:)

[manono]

You might consider making an uncompressed AVI first (I use Lagarith) and then encoding off of that.

And there's no need to encode the vobs separately. You make a D2V project file of the entire movie using DGIndex, and then frameserve the entire movie to your encoder using MPEG2Source:

http://www.neuron2.net/dgmpgdec/QuickStart.html

[sujit]

You make a D2V project file of the entire movie using DGIndex, and then frameserve the entire movie to your encoder using MPEG2Source
i live in mumbai. there is load shedding for 3hrs everyday. so i cant encode the movie at one go. i can encode for 21hrs/day. thats why i encode part by part.

You might consider making an uncompressed AVI first (I use Lagarith) and then encoding off of that.

will this procedure speed up the encoding?

[manono]

Hi-

will this procedure speed up the encoding?

I encode for DVD using CCE, and making the lossless AVI definitely is faster (much faster) when running 5 passes. If running only 2 passes, I'm not sure. You might experiment by doing just a part of the movie isolated with the Trim command. Time how long it takes to run the 2 passes. Then time how long it takes to make the AVI followed by running 2 passes using AVISource in a new script. My guess is that when running a very slow script, it still pays to make the AVI. Uncompressed AVIs take a lot of space. Lagarith is one of the best in that regard, but still requires something like 16-18 GB per hour of DVD video, less for lower resolutions.

As for having to break up the encoding; it will still be better (I think) to make a D2V for the entire movie. Then you can break up the encoding into pieces by using the Trim command:

http://avisynth.org/index.php?page=Trim

Or you can choose a trim length that will take as much of your available 21 hours as possible.

[sujit]

hi manono
thankx for letting me know about the trim feature.

i just tried the procedure you mentioned. i created the uncompressed avi using vdub. avi is created very fast, so i havnt considered the time taken to create it . with avi as the source, encoding took 4.07sec. with d2v as the source, it took 3.55sec. so it seems, when running 2 passes, d2v is better as the source.

[sujit]

what if i use seesaw on this source? would you recommend it?
something like
d=last
e=d.degrainmedian(mode=1)
SeeSaw(d,e, NRlimit=2, NRlimit2=3, Sstr=1.5, Slimit=5, Spower=5, Sdamplo=6, Szp=16)

[manono]

Hi-

I always use a sharpener after an unblending. I use LimitedSharpenFaster and don't know anything about the Seesaw settings. I'm sure you can get them (and already have) from the big Seesaw thread.

[sujit]

hi
:thanks: for all the help and your quick replies.

i just tried seesaw. the results were impressive:) .

no seesaw
http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/8996/noseesawga0.png

seesaw
http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/2791/seesawun2.png


i havnt tried LimitedSharpenFaster, could u plz giv me an eg script of LSF, so i can try it out.
should i use any more filters on this source or this is it?
sorry for bugging you with all sorts of questions:p
thanks agn

[manono]

Nice pics. I usually use something like this:

Dull=Last
Sharp=Dull.LimitedSharpenFaster(ss_x=1.25,ss_y=1.25,Smode=4,strength=400,soft=30)
Soothe(Sharp,Dull,25)

http://avisynth.org/LimitedSharpen

When sharpening up unblended stuff, because a lot of bobbed frames get used, the sharpening can accentuate any aliasing or shimmering created during the unblending process. Go find some thin lines and examine them; things like power lines, brick walls, steps, etc., and you should see what I mean. It's easy to oversharpen if you're not careful, because it makes scenes like the one in your pics look so good, but other scenes may not look so good.

Also, sharpening makes the source less compressible. Sometimes, if encoding for a fixed size, the higher average quant resulting from the sharpening can wipe out the detail brought out by the sharpening in the first place. I like to sharpen anyway, though.

[foxyshadis]

Seesaw does build in a Soothe, though, which makes it even nicer for one-stop sharpening. The SootheT parameter, and to a lesser extent bias, control that.

Surprised that frame came out of an unblending so well, especially given how low-bitrate your average indian DVD is.

[sujit]

thx for all the precious information.
It's easy to oversharpen if you're not careful, because it makes scenes like the one in your pics look so good, but other scenes may not look so good
hmm, i know what you mean.
as a test, i encoded about 40 mins of the movie and i was pretty happy with the result. seesaw did a good job on this source:) .

Surprised that frame came out of an unblending so well
thx to manono:) .
also, this movie has a good bitrate.
http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/3151/avgbrjg8.jpg

[sujit]

Hello people,
This script (posted by manono), worked great for the movie i was working on then.

ord = last.getparity() ? 1 : 0
a = tdeint(mode=1)
c = leakkernelbob(order=ord)
Cdeblend(a, omode=2, dclip=c)
BlendBob()
TDecimate(CycleR=3,Cycle=15,Mode=1)

Now i am working on another hindi movie (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0499375/) which also has similar interlaced effects and ghosting.

Could someone provide an explanation of the above code(like what each step is doing), so that i can modify the code and reuse it for different movies?

Thanks in advance.

[manono]

Hi-

Most Indian movies on DVD that are field blended have used a PAL master, and the simplest and fastest way to unblend them is by using RePAL (usually):

Yadif(Order=1,Mode=1)#or your favorite SmartBobber
RePAL()

It doesn't work on all of them, but maybe 95% of them. Once you've established that you have blended fields (put on a SmartBobber alone and check the fields for ghosting/double images), then in most cases RePAL will fix them. In only a very small percentage will the original framerate be 23.976fps and you'll have to use a different unblender. Also in a very small percentage, the correct framerate is 24.975fps, but RePAL doesn't work, so you have to use a different unblender.

In that script, ideally CDeblend gives you an unblended 59.94fps video. BlendBob gives you an unblended 29.97fps video. The TDecimate line pulls out the duplicate frames at the rate you set. In the case of that script, it's pulling out 3 dupe frames in every 15 frames for a final framerate of 23.976fps.

Edit: I just checked my R1 version of Guru, and the base framerate is 24.975fps. I think RePAL should work well for you.

[~bT~]

For Guru, I used:

ord = last.getparity() ? 1 : 0
leakkernelbob(order=ord,threshold=3)
RePal()

But now if I were to do it again, I'd use the latest Mrestore.

PS: With Mrestore, the output will be 25fps but you can use the existing audio track without re-encoding.