Subtitles don't display in Stranger Than Fiction

[Angelus]

I'm having a problem that I've had before with certain ARccOS titles. The subs work fine after processing with RipIt4Me and playing the resulting ISO image. But I've successfully completed the project in Scenarist, but when I preview the DVD in IFOEdit, the subs don't show up for the movie. I did select the English subtitles in the DIF4U stage, and the subs are visible in Scenarist in the Simulation Window.

Any ideas as to why this occurs? Any ideas? Could it be an IFO problem? Just FYI, here's my workflow for my projects:

RipIt4Me (if needed) -> ImgTool -> DIF4U -> Scenaid -> BatchCCEWS -> Scenarist -> BatchIFOUpdate

Thanks

[influenza]

Hmm, interesting. Could you post some more info? Original ifo (after processing), new ifo (before updating, after updating). Scenarist lay-out (screenshot).

[Angelus]

Here's a Scenarist screen shot, with the simulation window:

http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/3561/sfscenaristed7.th.jpg (http://img300.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sfscenaristed7.jpg)

What specific thing are you looking for in the Scenarist layout screenshot?

Thanks!

[setarip_old]

@Angelus

Hi!

1) Is it possible that they've somehow been placed offscreen (too low for you to see)?

2) Try burning a R/W - and see if the actual final product shows the subtitles properly.

[influenza]

can you also play your scenarist product to see if subs appear there? and can you post the scenarist generated ifo as well?

[Angelus]

@setarip_old

It could be possible that they're off-screen, I'm guessing those gray boxes I posted in the Scenarist Simulation window relate to the viewable area on TV's, right? I don't have a r/w off hand, but I have some cheap DVD+R's I can waste and see if it plays OK on TV.

@influenza

I've attached the IFO created by Scenarist, its VTS_01_0.rar. I'll try to burn the movie to a DVD and see if it displays.

This is off-topic to this thread, but I thought I would post it anyways. I've been trying to backup my troublesome DVDs (ones that I've failed on before) and I can't backup the Da Vinci Code. Two problems: after ripping with RipIt4Me and doing my normal workflow, the audio is out of sync by a mile, and the subs don't display. Here's the audio problem: Scenaid says the main audio stream has a delay of 73343ms !! and when playing the audio was way out of sync. As for the subtitles, I think that it may be related to Stranger than Fiction as well, as the only times I have encountered these problems was when I processed with RipIt4Me and ARccOS titles. Here's the AC3Log from ScenAid/Da Vinci Code:

Sampling rate: 48 kHz
Nominal bit rate: 448 kbps
Framelength: 0x0700
Length: 279003frames (02:28:48,096)
There are 31.25 frames in one second.
73343ms (00:01:13,344) to be add at beginning.

Target file information:

2292 silent frames (73344ms) have been added at start.
281295 frames (02:30:01,440) have been written.
There are 31.25 frames in one second.

[influenza]

Well you don't have to burn the dvd, just play it with a software player and see if thye subs are selectable. If the subs are off screen which is possible of course you could adjust that with dvdsubedit, just move them up a bit.

if you see the subs in the scenarist created files and not in the final product there's probably something wrong with the copying of the tables etc. What program do you use to update the ifos? (I would recommend batchupdateifo myself)

[Angelus]

I created an image and tried playing the movie with PowerDVD, and no luck, none of the subtitles appear. I always used batchupdateifo for my IFO updating, but maybe it's possible that for some reason it got messed up.

[setarip_old]

Although it doesn't seem very likely,based on your PowerDVD playback results, I'd still suggest that the only way to know, with certainty, that your DVD"package" shows or doesn' show subtitles for standalone display, is to burn a DVD and play it on your standalone player...

[influenza]

you could also try dvdsubedit ofcourse to see whgat results you get (and move those subs up a bit if necessary)

[Angelus]

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll try burning a DVD and see if the subs display or not, and if not I'll try that DVDsubedit program and see if I can move them up at all.

This is off-topic but do you know any way to stop Scenaid from correcting the audio delay in my problem with the Da Vinci Code (stated above)? I have a strange feeling if I get rid of the 73344ms delay Scenaid fixes, the movie will then be in sync

[jel]

do you know any way to stop Scenaid from correcting the audio delay not that i know of ... however you could simply reverse the process by using delaycut by jsoto to remove the 73343ms of padding in the audio file.

any luck with those subs?

[Angelus]

This is weird...I opened up the VOBs in DVDsubedit and the subtitles do display in there fine, and they seem to be positioned properly. I burned a DVD and the subtitles don't display at all.

[setarip_old]

they seem to be positioned properly. I burned a DVD and the subtitles don't display at all.1) Did you try changing the standalone player's display from 16:9 to 4:3? Did you try using the remote to cycle through all of the possible subtitle choices?

2) Despite your statement that "they seem to be positioned properly", you might want to experiment in DVD SubEdit by moving them up perhaps 90 pixels.

2) Have you done anything with the transparency and/or color?

[Angelus]

I'll try setting the player's display to 4:3 and see if that helps. I did cycle through all of the subs and nothing appeared, and I even went into the subtitle menu and selected "English subs" and still nothing.
I'll try moving up the subs with DVD SubEdit as well as a last resort, and I left the subtitles the same as I always have, in ScenAid with "Original Palette" selected.

Edit: I just got another movie yesterday, Casino Royale, which is another ARccOS protected title, and the same thing is happening, the subtitles show up in Scenarist but when playing in IFOEdit they don't display at all.

Edit 2: I tried to used DVD Subedit to move the subtitles up 67 pixels, I applied the modification to all subtitles, saved the file, and then when I tried playing the movie again in IFOEdit, the navigation is broken...for example, it goes to the movie just fine, but when you click play movie it just stops and says can't open file". Same thing when I go to the Chapters Menu, if I select a chapter it gives an error saying it can't find the file. This is only after using DVD Subedit, as I can copy the original IFOs and update them again and it will work properly.

[setarip_old]

1) Nothing in DVD SubEdit's methodology should affect playability. Subs should be moved by an EVEN amount (Sorry, I should have mentioned this earlier)

2) I'd suggest that you try using a better software DVD player (WinDVD, PowerDVD, even VLC) for testing the playback

[Angelus]

I'll try that again with an even number this time. Is there any way to test a movie with any of those players without creating an image first? It would be great if you could just browse to the VIDEO_TS folder and play like a real DVD.

[setarip_old]

Is there any way to test a movie with any of those players without creating an image first?There's no need to create an image file, as all three programs will happily "Play as DVD" the DVD "package" (.IFOs, .BUPs, and .VOBs) from your hard drive...

[Angelus]

I haven't had any luck with DVDSubedit, everytime I try changing the subpicture location, then apply that to all subpictures, and then save it, the movie no longer becomes playable after the menu (only the menu plays fine, the buttons all are dead links). BTW, thanks for that tip about the software players, I had no idea PowerDVD could read directly from a VIDEO_TS folder..all though now looking back at it, it does make sense.

Double checking Scenarist and the subtitles, the subtitles appear to be WAY off when compared to the audio...I couldn't even figure out where the audio and the subpictures correlate. Maybe that's part of the problem?

[setarip_old]

the subtitles appear to be WAY off when compared to the audio...Maybe that's part of the problem?Maybe that's been the ENTIRE problem all along?I created an image and tried playing the movie with PowerDVD, and no luck, none of the subtitles appear.

(I would have thought that you had examined the entire movie - and that's how you determined the subtitles were not appearing)

For whatever the cause,you probably simply have to adjust the start time of the subtitles...

[Angelus]

I don't know if that's the problem causing the subtitles not to play, because I scanned throughout the movie and let it play for a minute or so, and most of the time none of the subtitles played. There were 1 or two instances where I randomly chose spots in the movie and they played, so I am utterly confused. I think Trahald created a subtitle delay fixer for these types of discs, but looking at the main movie VTS folder, the audio only has a -211ms delay, so the subtitles shouldn't be off by as much as they are you know?

[setarip_old]

because I scanned throughout the movie and let it play for a minute or soBite the bullet and watch the movie carefully. Write down the first subtitle you see and the time it displayed. Compare that to the time the same words are actually spoken, to determine the delay factor that needs to be adjusted...

Is there some reason you can't simply play the original DVD to see when the first subtitles actually appear (correctly)?

[Redmondman]

Heh, I'm right where you are. At first I thought the subs weren't working, then I discovered that the timing was wrong. My SRT file has the first sub displaying at 00:02:08,695, which is way late.

Other than the weird fact that there are 99 title sets on the DVD (I've never seen that before), the rip is, as far as I've watched, fine.

[Angelus]

Here's the info from my SRT file:

1
00:02:08,928 --> 00:02:11,864
[???]

2
00:02:46,415 --> 00:02:47,916
M really doesn'’t mind
you earning

3
00:02:47,916 --> 00:02:49,418
a little money
on the side, Dryden.

So I guess it does seem that the first subtitle is displaying late, right?

[setarip_old]

Again, is there some reason you can't simply play the original DVD to see when the first subtitles actually appear (correctly)?

[Redmondman]

Setarip_old: what then? I'm looking at SubRip and I don't see a way to set a negative starting timecode, which is what I would need to do in order to properly time-offset the subtitles.

[setarip_old]

There is no negative start time involved.

Use "subresync.exe" (part of the "VOBSub" package) to manually adjust the initial subtitle's start time (to be the same as that of the original DVD's) and thereby adjust all of the following subtitles automatically...

It would be good to hear back from "Angelus" as well, since this is his/her thread ;>}

[Angelus]

Sorry for not replying to your previous question...I've just been too busy with work and such to sit and watch to see when the first subs appear. I'll have more time tomorrow so I should have some results then. BTW, thanks a lot for your help through this process, I've been completely lost with this problem for so long and if I can get it sorted out it would be awesome! :)

[jel]

well this has been discussed before:
Subs Way Out Of Sync... Need Help (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=852626#post852626)
and as you have already mentioned Angelus, Trahald wrote a tool specifically to adjust the .sst's for such errors:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=892903#post892903...although in your instance you may have to use detective work in lieu of the reported audio delay to find the amount you need to adjust the subs by.
have fun ;)
j

[Redmondman]

Here's my math:

First SRT: 00:02:08,695 = 128.695 seconds.
Delay reported by DGINDEX from full rip: 73.343 seconds
Result: 55.352 seconds.

Stopwatch to first dialogue: 55.352 seconds. (yes, I'm kidding, but it really is 55 and a fraction seconds).

[setarip_old]

it really is 55 and a fraction secondsYes, that's approximately where the dialog and the subs start on the original R1 DVD of "Casino Royale".

For "SST" format subtitles, by all means, follow the link provided by "Jel".

For "SRT" format subtitles, as both "Angelus" and Redmondman have stated they are dealing with, as I mentioned earlier in this thread, use "SubResync.exe" (part of the "VOBSub" package)...

[jel]

yes, well, i cant vouch for Redmondman, but i can guarantee that Angelus is using the Big 3 method which specifically requires subtitles in sst format for use with scenarist...

[setarip_old]

@jel

Please understand that I'm not personally familiar with Scenarist.

I'm sure "Angelus" will eventually clarify things but:

Isn't "SST" a bitmap format? I ask because this extract from one of the posts by "Angelus' looks to me to be a text format, "SRT" specifically:Here's the info from my SRT file:

1
00:02:08,928 --> 00:02:11,864
[???]

2
00:02:46,415 --> 00:02:47,916
M really doesn'’t mind
you earningPerhaps the source for the subtitles is something other than the original DVD - and requires a subsequent conversion to be performed...

[Redmondman]

Thanks for the pointer to SubResync / VOBSub (I only had DirectVOBSub installed). This worked well (after I fiddled with the UI to set the start time).

So, for other's benefit, 00:00:55.352 is a fraction of a second late (but watchable), you may want to set the first sub a half-second earlier (00:00:54.852 or so).

[setarip_old]

Thanks for the pointer to SubResync / VOBSub (I only had DirectVOBSub installed). This worked well...Glad to hear that my suggestion worked for you.

Would you please be good enough to clarify why you are working with an "'SRT"-format file, rather than an ".SST"-format file as mentioned by "jel"?

Perhaps "Angelus" can do so as well?

[Redmondman]

Would you please be good enough to clarify why you are working with an "'SRT"-format file, rather than an ".SST"-format file as mentioned by "jel"?

I'm not all that familiar with the variety of formats. My goal is to prepare a movie for playback with TiVo, so my workflow is: Rip, DGIndex to D2V and AC3, SubRip to SRT, build AviSynth script, FFMPEG at 2Mbps to put the whole thing back together.

I'm open to feedback, suggestions, ridicule if there are smarter ways to do that.

[setarip_old]

@Redmondman

Thanks for clarifying.

From what I see of your workflow, it has nothing to do with making a DVD, using Scenarist etal...

Once again, it will be good to hear from "Angelus", when available, for clarification of this ".SRT" versus ".SST" concept.

[Angelus]

I think I made some progress with regards to one movie, Casino Royale. I watched the movie and the subtitles appeared at 2:46, when the dialog first begins at 1:13. So I figured in a delay of 93000ms for the subtitles using Trahald's SST delay fixer, and after applying that delay, I checked the SST file and the first subtitle did say something like 1:13 which is what I want.

I couldn't import into Scenarist though because ScenAID gave me an error, specifically "This key is already associated with an element of this collection." I'm going to re-process the DVD tomorrow to see if that clears up the error, and then I'm going to use the new SST file when I compile, and hopefully if all is well the subs will be in sync.

@ setarip_old

Sorry for the confusion about SST and SRT files, I didn't know which one the Big 3 used when importing to Scenarist.

[Redmondman]

@Redmondman

Thanks for clarifying.

From what I see of your workflow, it has nothing to do with making a DVD, using Scenarist etal...



Correct. I jumped on the thread based on the title and guessed we were facing the same root cause.

[setarip_old]

@AngelusI watched the movie and the subtitles appeared at 2:46, when the dialog first begins at 1:13.Is your original DVD Region1?

I ask because, as you'll note in previous posts to this thread by both "Redmondman" and me, the initial dialog (and subtitles) start at approximately 55 seconds (not 1:13)...

[Redmondman]

Setarip, note that Angelus is mixing metaphors on us. He/she is talking about Casino Royale in this case (1:13).

I think I made some progress with regards to one movie, Casino Royale. I watched the movie and the subtitles appeared at 2:46, when the dialog first begins at 1:13

[setarip_old]

k....

[Angelus]

Yes I'm sorry, I should been more clear. On my computer in my room I'm working on Casino Royale, and the newer downstairs PC has Stranger than Fiction. Both have the same problem with the subtitles. I'm about to re-process Casino Royale right now, so I'll post some results once everything gets done

[Angelus]

Success!!! I just re-processed the movie and the subtitles work! The subs do move on to the next subtitle a bit too quickly, I would say probably about 1/2 too fast or so. I'll try to re-adjust the subs by 500 ms and see if that helps it. I can't say this enough, but thanks to everyone, especially setarip_old!

[setarip_old]

I can't say this enough, but thanks to everyone, especially setarip_old!Glad to hear of your success!

As always, my pleasure ;>}

[Angelus]

I found out why DVD Subedit killed my DVD navigation and playback. Upon inspecting the DVD in PCGEdit after processing with DVD Sub Edit, I found that it had erased all of my pre/post/cell commands for the main movie domain. I copied these commands from the source DVD and sure enough, the DVD played fine again. Weird, but a minor inconvenience I guess

[setarip_old]

If, in fact, DVD SubEdit is responsible for the changes, I'd suggest you post the specifics in the following thread, devoted to DVD SubEdit:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=104058

[jeanl]

I tried to reproduce the bug, but couldn't. Something's really fishy here. DVDSUbEdit does not save the IFO unless you modify the CLUT. Thanks for reporting the problem on the DVDSubEdit thread. I'll do the follow-up there...
Jeanl