Newby wants to edit subs- HELP PLEASE!

[wastedyuthe]

Ever since looking into editing dvd subs, I have been very confused with all the different formats of files, and different freeware programs available.
Basically, I have a collection of Hong Kong dvds which have subtitles, but often have spelling or gramatical errors in the subs. And all I want to do is edit the subs so that words are spelled correctly etc.
Here are the programs I have downloaded:

DVD Decrypter and
DVD Shrink (both of which I am competent in using already)
DVD Subedit 1.37
DVD Subber 2
Ifo Edit
Muxman
Pgc Demux
SubRip
Subtitle Creator
Vob Blanker
Vob Edit

I back up my dvd using either Shrink or Decrypter, then if I want to just remove unwanted subs, I have successfully used Subedit 1.37 to do that without having to demux and re-mux.
However, to edit the subs, I am having more of a problem. I have tried demuxing using Vob Edit, and can then create an srt file using SubRip. I then load the srt file into Subtitle Creator and can then edit the text, and save as a new srt file. I then used Muxman to re-mux into vob files. However, I can then play the film, and a subtitle track is enabled, but there are no subs showing at all. I also tried IfoEdit to 'author new dvd' with the various components, and it came up with an error message straight away.
As I said, I am a newby. I am assuming the terms de-muxing refers to splitting the vob files into seperate components (ie, video, audio, subs), and remuxing puts them back again. What am I doing wrong?

[manono]

Hello and welcome to the forum-

I then load the srt file into Subtitle Creator and can then edit the text, and save as a new srt file. I then used Muxman to re-mux into vob files.

Since Muxman doesn't accept subs in SRT format, you've left out a step. What happens between SRT and the SUP or SST format subs that Muxman does accept?

I do this kind of thing all the time and don't have any trouble playing the new subs. I think we can probably get you going.

You might also demux one of your newly remuxed DVDs whose subs don't play and confirm whether or not the subs actually made it into the DVD.

[wastedyuthe]

You are right of course. The program Subtitle Creator (where I edit the subs) allows me to save it then as a sup file, which muxman does accept. Apologies- see, I told you I have got confused with all these formats ;)

[manono]

You're playing the DVD that Muxman created, and you don't see any subs? This points to either there being something wrong with the SUP file, or the SUP file not making it into the DVD at all.

I do it completely differently, so I have to get a grip on what you're doing. Have you tried demuxing the remuxed DVD to make sure the SUP file made it in?

Another thing you can do to test is to open your new SUP file in SubtitleCreator and check that you have the dialog.

I'll be gone for half a day. I'll check when I get back. Many others can help also.

[wastedyuthe]

Thank you for your help so far. I will do the checks you suggest. May I ask how you do it, since you say you do it in a different way?

[wastedyuthe]

On your advice, I used SubEdit to load my finalised vob files back in (with suposedly corrected subs) to find there were no subs found! So the subs disappear somewhere down the line. This is strange as when I turn the vobs back into a dvd image and mount with Daemon tools, VLC player recognises a subtitle track, although no subs are seen when selected.

[manono]

Back sooner than I thought. My suggestion was to demux. I use PGCDemux. Then you can find out if the SUP file is actually in there. Then you can open that SUP file in SubtitleCreator and check if it's OK, if you can see the dialog.

I do it completely differently. First, I save in SSA format out of SubRip, and do my editing in Substation Alpha. Here's an outline I spelled out for someone else:

http://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?p=1661328&highlight=maestrosbt#1661328

The software needed is linked in the post, except for one at the bottom

[wastedyuthe]

Thanks for that, Manono- you've been a great help so far. I have downloaded Substation Alpha, and have used Subrip to save in ssa format, then can edit that file in Substation Alpha (which looks great so far). However, I have tried saving in an sst format from there, so this sst file can then be used by Muxman to mux the subs with the video and audio. As usual it has resulted in a subtitle track with no subs. I haven't had chance to demux yet (I am at work atm) to check the sub track. You have said you use Substation Alpha, but what do you use after that to get it back to a working dvd?

[manono]

Hi-

Perhaps I should have explained more about using SST files in Muxman. There are some requirements that Muxman has as far as the BMPs go. One is (I think) that they have to be 4-bit, and I use 8-bit, because I don't go the SST route. The second is that they have to be a certain resolution, 720x478 (I think, but am less sure). I go ahead and complete the other steps I outlined. They are very quick (after you save for SON instead of SST), taking perhaps a minute to do the 2 steps, all told.

I messed with SST a while back, and while I'm sure that it can be done, if you know what you're doing, I never got any subs into the DVD either. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

So, to get a guaranteed working subtitle, make the SON file following the instructions in the post. Then use Son2VobSub, followed by SubToSup.

[kumi]

I've successfully authored dozens of DVDs in MuxMan with .SST subtitles using these parameters:

4-bit BMP (compressed)
720x478 (NTSC)
720x574 (PAL)

[manono]

Thanks for the clarification, kumi.

[wastedyuthe]

A little update for you. I have solved my problem and am now succesfully editing my subtitles. After your post on what other programs you use, to be honest with you, I thought it was getting to be too much hassle, and I gave up. Then by chance, I found out why VLC wasn't displaying subtitles- it was! It's just they had been set for PAL instead of NTSC, so they were that far down the picture, they were off it!! All I needed to do was set the one program to NTSC, and hey presto!

Here's what I use-

DVD Shrink (to convert dvd to vobs on pc)
VobEdit (to split vobs for video and audio files)
SubRip (to create a .srt text file from vobs)
Subtitle Creator (to edit the .srt file, and save as a .sup file)
(It's in this program where I needed to set them as NTSC or PAL)
Muxman (to Re-mux video, audio, and new .sup file to vobs)
Then DVD Shrink again to create an image/burn disk.

Thanks anyway guys!