EVOB multiplexing and MAP files

[PurpleMan]

I know there is a hot discussing in a thread called "de/multiplexing evob", but I read through it and it's all about demultiplexing of EVOB files, so I decided to open a new thread.


We now have the ability to demux EVOB files into VC1/AC3 (EVOBdemux), the ability to decode VC1 (graphedit + avisynth), and the ability to reencode to an h264 HD-DVD complaint stream (mainconcept h264 encoder).

Using the abovementioned, we can reduce the size of the main feature on the disc (and extras) so the entire HD-DVD would fit on a DVDR-DL or even a DVD5.

The only thing that remains to be done is - how do we multiplex the new H264 files + the demuxed AC3 streams and SUP files back into a .EVO file so we can "reinject" it back into the original HD-DVD dir structure and have it playback okay.

Using Scenarist 4.1 we can mulitplex into EVOB easily (I tested this myself), but without appropriate MAP files, the effort is futile, the disc won't play.

Any ideas anyone?

(Also, if anyone would care to explain what information do MAP files contain, that would help too)

-PurpleMan.

[honai]

The MAP format description (and other details of the HD-DVD structure) can be obtained here:

http://www.dvdfllc.co.jp/format/f_nosbsc.html

5K USD plus signing an NDA. Eventually that information will be leaked to the public.

[PurpleMan]

Does this mean there is no software (even a commercial one) yet that can multiplex or author EVO's with MAP files to match?

I noticed that when you author HD-DVD in scenarist it produces them with an IFO-based structure, so no MAPs.

[orbitlee]

MAP/VTI only exists in HD DVD advanced content, and you need HD DVD advanced content authoring software, such as Scenarist 4.1 ACA.

I guess you are using Scenarist 4.1 SCA, it can only author standard content, which use IFO files.

Another difference, advanced content supports interactive, so you will have ADV_OBJ folders.

[PurpleMan]

MAP/VTI only exists in HD DVD advanced content, and you need HD DVD advanced content authoring software, such as Scenarist 4.1 ACA.

is scenarist 4.1 ACA even released yet?

If so, can I use it to multiplex a VC1-to-H264 reencoded file with the original demuxed assets (audio and subpictures) to produce .EVO/.MAP and then replace them with the ones on the original disc?

[Pelican9]

Scenarist's description:
"Sonic Scenarist® brings Scenarist's proven performance and reliability to Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD, providing a comprehensive, professional authoring solution for the next generation of optical media. Offering maximum playback compatibility and complete cell-level control for both standard content and advanced interactivity, Scenarist delivers unrivaled power and world-class results."
"* HD DVD Support - Offer your clients both Standard and Advanced Content HD DVD title creation. With direct access to the HD DVD specification, the only limit is your creativity."
"* Advanced Interactivity - Scenarist goes beyond standard content authoring, enabling the advanced interactive capabilities that give BD and HD DVD their unique appeal, including seamless menus over video, composited contextual menus, synchronized picture-in-picture bonus content, and built-in Internet connectivity."

I've found only SCA version... :-(

[PurpleMan]

Alright, so the only question that remains is -

if I multiplex the reencoded-to-h264 video with the original assets and get a new .EVO with a matching .MAP, then replace the 2 files with the original ones on the disc - will the disc play alright?

[honai]

You could test it yourself by simply exchanging the .MAP file from one movie for another and see if it still plays (file names must match, of course).

[zgx]

Alright, so the only question that remains is -

if I multiplex the reencoded-to-h264 video with the original assets and get a new .EVO with a matching .MAP, then replace the 2 files with the original ones on the disc - will the disc play alright?I have done extensive testing with rebuilt .EVO files and PowerDVD. Most of the time everything plays well even with the old .MAP files but every now and then there will be some severe glitches in the playback that are not there when you play the rebuilt .EVO directly. I'm pretty sure it's the .MAP files that is causing the problem.

I have only tested with rebuild EVOBs (rebuilt with EVOdemux) so I can't really speak for reencoded-to-h264 EVOBs but it should work fine as well.

[zgx]

MAP/VTI only exists in HD DVD advanced content, and you need HD DVD advanced content authoring software, such as Scenarist 4.1 ACA.

I guess you are using Scenarist 4.1 SCA, it can only author standard content, which use IFO files.

Another difference, advanced content supports interactive, so you will have ADV_OBJ folders.But if you have a rebuilt EVOB is it possible to author it as a "standard content HD DVD" (without .MAP files)?

In that case you could perhaps make a simple menu or something to get subtitles, selectable audio tracks and chapters working?

[zgx]

You could test it yourself by simply exchanging the .MAP file from one movie for another and see if it still plays (file names must match, of course).Often it won't play at all if you take a .MAP file from another movie or EVOB. But if you for example rebuild an EVOB with EVOdemux and then use the old .MAP files it will often play but during the playback there will be glitches.

[PurpleMan]

But if you have a rebuilt EVOB is it possible to author it as a "standard content HD DVD" (without .MAP files)?

In that case you could perhaps make a simple menu or something to get subtitles, selectable audio tracks and chapters working?

Yes, that can very easily be done and it works, too. But the whole point is to keep the original advanced-content structure with the original menus and selections.

Often it won't play at all if you take a .MAP file from another movie or EVOB. But if you for example rebuild an EVOB with EVOdemux and then use the old .MAP files it will often play but during the playback there will be glitches.

that's true, but it also might not play at all if it's a completely different video codec (h264) and not just the same vc1 remuxed.


but if scenarist 4.1 aca can create new .MAP's, maybe it's the answer?

[zgx]

Yes, that can very easily be done and it works, too. But the whole point is to keep the original advanced-content structure with the original menus and selections.My main goal is to be able to use smaller sized stripped EVOBs and still be able to select audio track and use subtitles but sure the original menu would be sweet as well. Could you tell me how I could author a working HD DVD for an EVOB I already have?

that's true, but it also might not play at all if it's a completely different video codec (h264) and not just the same vc1 remuxed.In VPLST000.XPL you define what video codec is used in the "title". If the .MAP, the .EVO and the .XPL file are all correct it should play well.

HVA00001.VTI also contains some information but not sure how important that file is. Anyone knows?

but if scenarist 4.1 aca can create new .MAP's, maybe it's the answer?Yes that would be nice.

[PurpleMan]

My main goal is to be able to use smaller sized stripped EVOBs and still be able to select audio track and use subtitles but sure the original menu would be sweet as well. Could you tell me how I could author a working HD DVD for an EVOB I already have?

You would need to demux the assets and reauthor from scratch using scenarist 4.1 SCA (standard content authoring).

In any way, like I said - if we can just use scenarist 4.1 ACA to author (mux) new .EVO/.MAP using demuxed (or reencoded) assets, we could just replace the two files with the ones on the disc and it should play perfectly, with menus and audio/subpicture selection.

Now just need to find a way to confirm this.

[zgx]

You would need to demux the assets and reauthor from scratch using scenarist 4.1 SCA (standard content authoring).

In any way, like I said - if we can just use scenarist 4.1 ACA to author (mux) new .EVO/.MAP using demuxed (or reencoded) assets, we could just replace the two files with the ones on the disc and it should play perfectly, with menus and audio/subpicture selection.

Now just need to find a way to confirm this.It works I just tried it out. The problem is that I can't mux the extracted subtitles from EVOdemux into ACA.

[Pelican9]

It works I just tried it out. The problem is that I can't mux the extracted subtitles from EVOdemux into ACA.
Because that is not an elementary (or raw) stream.
It contains PTS informations, and extra 'SP' chars.
I can modify the prog to choose between the two format, but I don't know, how you can synchronize this pure subpicture stream to the video and audio.

edit: I think Scenarist needs .sst file, but the old .sst format doesn't work with it.

[zgx]

edit: I think Scenarist needs .sst file, but the old .sst format doesn't work with it.Your right. "Scenarist Subtitle Script Files (*.sst; *.scn-sst)" is what ACA is asking for.

I now have a few options to get subtitles:

1. Transcode the DD+ into DD or DTS and then mux it together with the VC-1 into MKV container. Then get subtitles from the Internet and sync it with the movie.

2. Solve the .MAP problem so I can use rebuilt EVO files together with menu and XPL files.

3. Re-author the entire movie in ACA and figure out how to make those .sst files.

4. Just give up and use the original EVO files and buy some more storage.


Option 4 seams better and better :rolleyes:.

[PurpleMan]

I actually had problems importing my encoded video.264 file into ACA. This is weird, it complains about not having a decoder software installed on the system. This strikes me as weird given that SCA accepts the file without a problem on the same box.

Any idea?

As for .SST files, I'm sure it can't be extremely difficult to produce them using a simple script which would alter EVOBdemux's output.

[Pelican9]

As for .SST files, I'm sure it can't be extremely difficult to produce them using a simple script which would alter EVOBdemux's output.
I can make the .sst export in SUPread if somebody give me a working .sst file.

[Pelican9]

I now have a few options to get subtitles:


1. It's working now (you can get the original subtitle timing from the EVO with SUPread)
2. I'm still looking information about .map files
3. I'll check this if I can try with ACA version
4. My PC is full with 4 SATA HDDs (1,45 TB)...

[PurpleMan]

Pelican9 - I followed your activity on several threads, and I just wanted to personally thank you for the effort you are putting into this. So - thanks :)

And offtopic, did you ever manage loading an h264 file to ACA? I'm really stuck.. don't know why it won't accept the file ;/

[zgx]

1. It's working now (you can get the original subtitle timing from the EVO with SUPread)
2. I'm still looking information about .map files
3. I'll check this if I can try with ACA version
4. My PC is full with 4 SATA HDDs (1,45 TB)...

1. Yes when the new version of Haali Media Splitter came out I played around some with it. Still having problems getting the audio and video to sync. Have not given the subtitles a try yet. But nice to hear you can get the timing from SUPread.

2. Thank you it's really appriciated. :thanks:

3. It takes quite a few hours to re-author a full HD DVD (at least at my computer). Would of course be a solution but I prefer other smoother ways. Still would be nice if you could get compatible subtitles from EVOdemux but I think you have more important things to spend your programing time on.

[Yenaphe]

I actually had problems importing my encoded video.264 file into ACA. This is weird, it complains about not having a decoder software installed on the system. This strikes me as weird given that SCA accepts the file without a problem on the same box.

I've the same problem. i've investigating on it right now.

But, i was wondering, maybe i'm wrong, but, as the iHD language used to make ACA for HD-DVD is made by MS, would it they have put an option that makes ACA tracks only compatible with VC1 streams ?

[PurpleMan]

I've the same problem. i've investigating on it right now.

But, i was wondering, maybe i'm wrong, but, as the iHD language used to make ACA for HD-DVD is made by MS, would it they have put an option that makes ACA tracks only compatible with VC1 streams ?

That's impossible. In the help of scenarist ACA it clearly states it can accept h264 files as input.

And also I can import the file to scenarist SCA without a problem.