gordian knot problems

[bigshot]

so i tried gordian knot (not auto) for the first time as ive heard you can achieve better quality with it and auto gk wasnt giving me good results. Ive tried following two different guides (one being the one here at doom 9) but it simply refuses to work properly.

Im trying to encode a movie to two cd, but all it keeps doing is outputting several .avi files (dont know why its doing that) which are sized such as 168mb, 300mb. And when viewing its just the full movie but extremely pixelated as would be obvious when encoded to such a small size.

When going through the setting up process the program is giving me no indication that its going to produce a 300mb file, but when it gets to the encoding process it takes around 3-4 hours (half of what it usually takes my pc with auto gk) and does this.

Anyone ever had a problem like this? Would appreciate if you can set me on track to at least getting it to produce a 2cd rip.

[CWR03]

Uninstall XviD, delete the xvid.ax , xvidvfw.dll and xvidcore.dll files (Located in C:\Windows\System), then reinstall Xvid. On the Options page, click the XviD first pass putton and select unrestricted from the "Profile @ Level" list and click Ok. Repeat for the second pass and redo your encode.

[har-vas]

Hello bigshot and welcome to the forum. I am a fan of GordianKnot too and I do all my encodings with it for many years. It is still a very flexible and reliable program, despite the fact that is not under development anymore. As for your problem, I would suggest you to encode your movie without the "Split final size into CDs" option enabled. To be honest, I have never used it. The old days, when I was using 700 MB CD-R discs, I remember that I was encoding with target filesize 1400 MB and in the end I was splitting the final .avi manually (~700 MB each part). If you want to do the same, you should use Nandub for that purpose (if you don't know how, just google it), because both VirtualDub and VirtualDubMod don't support VBR mp3 in .avi container (I suppose that you don't use CBR audio in your .avi).
But if I were you, I would encode in MKV container, not in AVI, I would select vorbis for audio, not mp3, I would add chapters, subtitles (all in a single .mkv file) and finally I would use VirtualDubMod for the splitting. I also propose you to select the x264 codec, not XviD, since the former is much better in quality/size ratio. If you want some extra information for GordianKnot, you can read that thread http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=121702. I think that you will find the discussion very useful and you will learn much more about matroska and x264.

PS: If you disable the splitting option and set the size at 1400 MB (like I tell you) and you still receiving in the end a much smaller filesize, then something is wrong with your configuration (just come back and describe in detail your steps).

[The Scientist]

Im trying to encode a movie to two cdJust out of curiousity why do you do this?

[CWR03]

Just out of curiousity why do you do this?
Not everyone wants to move to or can afford a DVD burner. Please stay on topic.

[The Scientist]

Not everyone wants to move to or can afford a DVD burner. Please stay on topic.Actually it was very much on topic.

As for the cost, a new DVD Burner, retail is less than £20 in the UK which is probably far less than he paid for his CD Burner when that was new. Yes I know he may be in a country where they are much more expensive, the whole point of my question was because I wanted to know why *HE* wanted to do a 2 CD rip.

I've read of many people do '2-CD' encodes mainly because that's what some outdated guides tell them, guides that were originally constructed before DVD burners were available for the PC. Everything they read is '2-CD' encode for a high quality movie e.t.c. so that is what they do, not to mention programs that default to a 2-CD encode.

As 'bigshot' was a first-time poster, I asked *HIM* just out of curiousity incase he thought that was what he *had* to do for a good quality encode or there was some other reason apart from the obvious one of cost.

Anyway, my thoughs on the subject are closed.

[BigDid]

... If you want to do the same, you should use Nandub for that purpose (if you don't know how, just google it), because both VirtualDub and VirtualDubMod don't support VBR mp3 in .avi container ...
Hi,

I disagree with your statement, VirtualDubMod rev 1.5.4.1 (used in AGK) or 1.5.10.2 does support muxing avi and mp3VBR ; I have done it for quite a time now without problems.

Did

[bigshot]

im doing 2cd obviously for the fact that its better quality and I want ac3 as well. It has nothing to do with cd burning (found it rather funny that you guys brought that up). I will try the suggestions to do with gordian knot, see if i can at least make it do a proper 1400mb rip.

[bigshot]

ok well i got it to be 2cd now (1.36gb), and I did not need to uninstall xvid thank you very much, just changed those 1st and 2nd pass settings to "unrestricted" and unticked "split into cds". Next challenge is getting things right, the movie came out with dvd menus (i dont know if thats standard), audio out of sync (yeah i know that 'can' be fixed with vdub), wrong aspect ratio, and finally it was pixelated so looked worse than the auto gk rip i made earlier :-).

[CWR03]

Rip the disk with RipIt4Me and select movie only - your method probably included extra angles and menus that increased the overall length of the film and lowered the available bitrate. Also be sure to select Force Film in DGIndex (if it's an NTSC, 29.97 fps movie) so the end file will be a lower and proper framerate. You have to select the aspect ratio yourself, so that's not Gordian Knot's fault.

Uninstalling and reinstalling XviD isn't always necessary, but it's a common mistake for someone to install a version over another, and it's so easy to do I just start with that.

[har-vas]

Hello bigshot. Glad to hear that your filesize is correct now. As for the problems you mentioned:the movie came out with dvd menus (i dont know if thats standard),You should use a tool like DVD Decrypter to rip only the main title (actually the movie), not other useless stuff which only increases the ripping time and takes up more disk space. Just select Mode-->File and then Edit-->Select Main Movie Files. If you encounter errors during transfer (rarely), you may need to use a tool like AnyDVD in the background, because DVD Decrypter can't decrypt some new ARcoSS-encrypted DVDs (still very powerful though).

audio out of sync (yeah i know that 'can' be fixed with vdub)This may has to do with the previous problem (probably). I have years to encounter audio synch issues, especially since I have switched to matroska.

wrong aspect ratioThis is due to a wrong setting you set in GordianKnot's "Resolution" tab. Open the .d2v file (created from DGIndex) with a simple text editor and have a look at its contents. If you see Picture_Size=720x576 and Aspect_Ratio=4:3, then select PAL and non-anamorphic in "Input Resolution" and "Input PAR" sections respectively. If you see 720x480 and 16:9, then select NTSC and anamorphic etc. GordianKnot is very reliable in keeping the correct AR, if you make the proper settings in those two simple sections of the "Resolution" tab.

it was pixelated so looked worse than the auto gk rip i made earlierWhich is the duration of the movie? If I were using XviD, I would give around 565 MB per movie's hour (with 128 kbps .mp3 audio), so eg for a two-hour film, ~1130 MB. Also you can leave out the credits and encode only the main movie to gain more bitrate at the same filesize (some movies have over 5 minutes of credits which is a waste of bitrate for me). Also don't forget to use the latest XviD version.

Anyway, you can use x264 for much better results. If you like using XviD, I think that AutoGK is a smarter choice. GordianKnot does not encode better of course. It just gives you the extra options to use matroska container (with chapters and subtitles), x264 video codec, 5.1 vorbis audio, leave out credits etc and hence achieve a much better result.

Finally, you can also upgrade some components which GordianKnot uses. The latest Rip pack (0.35.2) is rather old now. For example, VDubMod to build 2542, BeSweet to v1.5 b31 (adding aoTuV encoding engine for better Vorbis), DGIndex to 1.4.9 b14 (is a "must") etc.

@BigDid: I am not sure if there is a workaround for that, but let's suppose that I want to split an 1400 MB AVI created with AutoGK (Nathalie.avi). When I am trying to open it with VirtualDubMod and VirtualDub, I am encounter the following warnings. So I suppose that is safer to handle it with Nandub (like I did).
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/4830/vdmuw7.jpg
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/1523/vdubqe0.jpg

[manono]

So I suppose that is safer to handle it with Nandub (like I did).

You just answer "No" to the question and go ahead and split. There's nothing wrong with using VDubMod for the job.

[HeadBangeR77]

(...) I am not sure if there is a workaround for that, but let's suppose that I want to split an 1400 MB AVI created with AutoGK (Nathalie.avi). When I am trying to open it with VirtualDubMod and VirtualDub, I am encounter the following warnings. So I suppose that is safer to handle it with Nandub (like I did).

VDM: Options => Preferences => AVI => Do not correct MPEG Layer 3 audio streams

I got asynchronous audio&video only once with VDM, and that was not by simple splitting but by cutting out a sample out of a really long film. I assume we're talking about VBR MP3 all the time.

On the other hand I wouldn't dare to mux /edit /split anything with VBR audio with the latest Virtual Dub - being a great application, it's crippled when it comes to audio.

cheers

@ manono - sorry, I haven't refreshed my browser for a while.

[CWR03]

You should use a tool like DVD Decrypter to rip only the main title (actually the movie), not other useless stuff which only increases the ripping time and takes up more disk space. Just select Mode-->File and then Edit-->Select Main Movie Files.
If youre ripping for Gordian Knot, you should rip in .IFO mode. File mode selecting movie only will still include the various angles into the file if it has them.
GordianKnot does not encode better of course.That's simply not true. Even with default settings for Xvid other than selecting the unrestricted profile, you will get a better encode from Gordian Knot if all other parameters are the same.

[HeadBangeR77]

If youre ripping for Gordian Knot, you should rip in .IFO mode. File mode selecting movie only will still include the various angles into the file if it has them.
I agree: IFO mode + stream processing enabled.

A remark as to audio: There's been written many times in the forums here, that we should use DGIndex /DGDecode to demux audio, instead of letting DVD-Decrypter do it for us. Well, I have never had any synchronization problem with audio files demuxed by Decrypter, and it spares some of HDD space. It could also be that I've never encountered a problematic audio, which could have been better handled by DGIndex/ DGDecode. (?)

That's simply not true. Even with default settings for Xvid other than selecting the unrestricted profile, you will get a better encode from Gordian Knot if all other parameters are the same.
Both applications are basically front-ends (+ AutoGK has many other functions to automatize the whole encoding process). Tell me, 'cause you seem to write similar things as above very often, what's so clever about GK, if exactly the same settings are used (codec's settings, bitrate, the same cropping and resizing if at all, the same matrix), that makes its encodes better? Any samples?

[CWR03]

Both applications are basically front-ends (+ AutoGK has many other functions to automatize the whole encoding process). Tell me, 'cause you seem to write similar things as above very often, what's so clever about GK, if exactly the same settings are used (codec's settings, bitrate, the same cropping and resizing if at all, the same matrix), that makes its encodes better? Any samples?
It's primarily the codec settings - there are none that you can control in AutoGK, and the settings it uses are, as far as I can tell, optimized for the way AutoGK uses it and not for best quality. I have no samples for comparison at the moment, but I'll run something through both apps and post the results.

[HeadBangeR77]

It's primarily the codec settings - there are none that you can control in AutoGK, and the settings it uses are, as far as I can tell, optimized for the way AutoGK uses it and not for best quality. I have no samples for comparison at the moment, but I'll run something through both apps and post the results.
Ok, here I must agree, provided we know what to change (including CQM - AutoGK chooses between the 2 standard ones and 4 custom matrices AFAIR).
It's just you were generalizing much ("if all other parameters are the same."), and with that I couldn't agree. ;)

cheers

[bigshot]

which version of auto gk has x264 in it? i got what i think was the latest one about a month ago and it doesnt have the option for it. I rip the disc with dvd decrypter (always), as it is easy and convenient and really dont want to get into other programs. To get rid of menus at the start cant i not choose one of the vobs in gordian knot, ie when you build the d2v file it selects all the vobs.

Someone asked how long the movie was, 1 hour 50 mins, Im using ac3 (dont like mp3, dont ask why :sly: ). Its PAL and so I left the 25fps default and 16:9 option as it said when saving the d2v file. Audio is 192kbps ac3 and only takes up like 150mb so plenty of room for the video to be good. When building d2v file it does say interlaced but from viewing its not really, except for maybe a tiny bit in the end (which has credits and movie still going).

Also Ive been asking around (people I know who have made good rips using gordian knot) and they all say to leave just about every option codec setting on default (except for some standard presets), so when it comes down to ripping the ONLY option that you will get to modify your video quality is resolution, im discarding the option of credits (i like to leave those in and in full quality) and video size (as I will always set this to 2cds (1400mb) for movies under 2.5 hours).

If anyone's got more tips on perfecting the video quality I would appreciate, I have given pretty much all the information you would see if you used GK yourself.

[HeadBangeR77]

which version of auto gk has x264 in it?
None. x264 isn't further developed as VfW (Video for Windows), and this is how AutoGK and GK work. You could use x264 VfW with GK, however - search for Kurtnoise13's builds

I rip the disc with dvd decrypter (always), as it is easy and convenient and really dont want to get into other programs.
It's still a very good application, I agree, yet it can't deal with some copy protection mechanisms, since it isn't developed any more.

To get rid of menus at the start cant i not choose one of the vobs in gordian knot, ie when you build the d2v file it selects all the vobs.
You should be able to get rid of it not while creating a d2v project, but one stage earlier - by ripping VOBs from your source DVD.
In DVD-Decrypter: IFO Mode + stream processing + uncheck suspected cells (in option, but it should be on by default).

Also Ive been asking around (people I know who have made good rips using gordian knot) and they all say to leave just about every option codec setting on default (except for some standard presets), so when it comes down to ripping the ONLY option that you will get to modify your video quality is resolution...
I can't agree with any single word: it's the possibility of tweaking codec's settings that can raise the quality (along with custom quantization matrix - CQM) - see our XviD's presets. They are much different from the default settings. It's all under assumption that you know what you're doing. Manual cropping and resizing could be a bit of help, yet AutoGK handles those operations rather good.

Tips (as you wished ;)):
1) Get know the codec's internals - don't pay any attention to the outdated guides (including the Doom9's one, unfortunately) - have a look at the XviD's presets thread (and older, presets working thread) in the XviD sub-forum.

2) Make yourself familiar with various CQMs. Encode short samples at constant quantizer (using VDub or VDubMod) to get an idea how they differ and how they influence visual quality and compressibility.

3) As to resolution - if you resize, plz be careful with that. It's often better to encode at smaller resolution and have every frame encoded properly (with good precision and at low quantizers), than get artefacts or simply poorly encoded frames at higher resolution.

4) Using GK always perform a compressibility test, then play with resolution.

5) Quality goes together with slower speed (not always, yet as a rule) - there is a difference between VHQ1 and VHQ4, so if you're not in a hurry, encode with VHQ 3/4.

That's all I can write at this hour (3 AM).