16:9 in VirtualDub

[Simonth]

I have an 16:9 DV AVI file from my videocamera, Canon MV900.

How do I import a 16:9 file in VirtualDub?
When I import the file like all other files, it shows it as 4:3. And when I encode the file again, with "Full processing mode", with a DV AVI codec, then the file is 4:3.
When I use "Direct stream copy", it works fine(of course).
I need to use "Full processing mode" because I should use some filters, etc. DeShaker.
I want to could save it as a 16:9 file with the resolution 720x576.

How do I do that? I have tryed the beta of VirtualDub, and it cant either. Isnt 16:9 supported in VirtualDub? And will it never be?

[foxyshadis]

Virtualdub ignores AR, you have to set it manually if you want to see it. (Try right clicking on the panes and choosing 16:9.) 720x576 isn't 4:3 or 16:9, so you need to have AR correction set on it; how that works on non-mpeg4 files I'm not entirely sure.

Or you could resize it to a 1:1 ratio, if you aren't going to end up in something like DVD where AR is easy to manipulate.

[pelmen]

MPEG4Modifier can be used to set the aspect ratio after you have processed the avi, its not a recompression so there is no extra generation loss.

[Simonth]

Virtualdub ignores AR, you have to set it manually if you want to see it. (Try right clicking on the panes and choosing 16:9.) 720x576 isn't 4:3 or 16:9, so you need to have AR correction set on it; how that works on non-mpeg4 files I'm not entirely sure.

Or you could resize it to a 1:1 ratio, if you aren't going to end up in something like DVD where AR is easy to manipulate.

I have tryed to right clicking on the input and output and choosing 16:9, but it dosent work.(It saves as 4:3)

How do I set "AR correction" ?

I shall not have it on a DVD or something, I should just save the video as DV AVI(same as original/input).

Resize to 1:1:
I have tryed that(resize to 720x576), but it is still 4:3 or fullscreen or something, not 16:9.

[Simonth]

MPEG4Modifier can be used to set the aspect ratio after you have processed the avi, its not a recompression so there is no extra generation loss.
I have tryed MPEG4Modifer now, but it says:
"This is not a valid MPEG-4 video (startcode not found at beginning of frame) Codec: dvsd"
It is a DV AVI file...

[Simonth]

I have searched(some more, maybe with the correct words this time) on Google, and I have found this:

"Widescreen 16:9 :- 1600x900, 1024x576 (PAL), 800x450, 854x480(NTSC)."

But it dosent work. It works when I save to raw AVI, but not when I save to DV AVI, then it says:
"The source image format is not acceptable."

[foxyshadis]

The right-click method is just a "for your convenience" view of how it'll look after correction is applied. When I say resize to 1:1, that means resize directly to the 16:9 resolution, either 1024x576 or 720x400. And if you're going to end up with DVD, please, trust me and ignore the fact that it's the wrong visual AR, because DVD does not have a 1:1 AR. It'll be stretched to 16:9 on playback as long as you encode/author with that option. In the meantime, you can just apply temporary AR change if you need it, but you must not make permanent changes if you want the DVD to come out correctly.

If you're going to end up with anything other than DVD you should just do the 1:1 resize, it'll be a lot simpler.

[Simonth]

When I say resize to 1:1, that means resize directly to the 16:9 resolution, either 1024x576 or 720x400.

Okay.
I have tryed that, but I cant when saving to DV AVI(I have tryed two DV codecs, none of them works).
I have tryed both 1024x576 and 720x400(right now).

It says "The source image format is not acceptable."
Screenshot of the error: http://simon.h-form.dk/Videoer/virtualdub169-error1.JPG

[foxyshadis]

Well, DV is D1 resolution, if you want non-D1 you have to use another codec. (Such as xvid, or better yet lossless like huffyuv of lagarith.)

[Simonth]

Strange. If you don't use resizing filters "full processing mode" shouldn't change aspect ratio.

But it does :(

[Simonth]

Well, DV is D1 resolution, if you want non-D1 you have to use another codec. (Such as xvid, or better yet lossless like huffyuv of lagarith.)

Okay.. Xvid never. But maybe huffyuv but the filesize is going to be biiig :/
For example for 90min it will be about 205 gb :/ And then some extra to test video clips etc. So I will need at least a 320gb very fast harddisc hmm :/
Isnt there any format there is like DV (and have about the same filesize - 13 gb for 1 hour), but there can take that resolution?

[foxyshadis]

Xvid is my preferred editing format, but of course the defaults are worthless. If you import this registry file (http://foxyshadis.slightlydark.com/random/xvid_lossless.reg) it'll set your xvid settings to near-lossless, at about 1/3 to 1/4 the size of lossless. (So around 15-25mbps at D1.) Quality is actually higher than DV, though it won't matter if it's already been through DV, speed of encoding and decoding is about the same as DV. Also, make sure you tick interlaced mode if necessary.

You can turn on b-frames to get a smaller size, but of course editing is painful if you do (especially if ffdshow is decoding).

Otherwise, there's always MJPEG.

[Simonth]

Xvid is my preferred editing format, but of course the defaults are worthless. If you import this registry file (http://foxyshadis.slightlydark.com/random/xvid_lossless.reg) it'll set your xvid settings to near-lossless, at about 1/3 to 1/4 the size of lossless. (So around 15-25mbps at D1.) Quality is actually higher than DV, though it won't matter if it's already been through DV, speed of encoding and decoding is about the same as DV. Also, make sure you tick interlaced mode if necessary.

You can turn on b-frames to get a smaller size, but of course editing is painful if you do (especially if ffdshow is decoding).



I have imported the registry file after installed Xvid but dont think it works. Because, I think, the image is looking bad. Especially in the top of the image.

Xvid file(1160kbit - shouldnt it be higher?):
http://simon.h-form.dk/Videoer/test/1160-xvid-1.avi
DV AVI file:
http://simon.h-form.dk/Videoer/test/dvfile-1.avi

[Simonth]

By the way: How did you check if the clip saved in full processsing mode is really 4:3 and not 16:9? I don't think you can check it in VirtualDub. I think you have to import the clip back into your camcorder.

I open the original DV file into VirtualDub, and just save it again(without any filters). As uncompressed AVI. And it shows it as 4:3 in WMP.
I cant import the clip back into my camcorder, because I dont have DV-IN.

[Simonth]

Did you know there is a DV forum here at doom9 (http://forum.doom9.org/forumdisplay.php?f=59)?

I think the following post sums up your dilemma:

16:9 footage is recorded in 4:3 on video cameras. The CCDs are not true 16:9 so they mask pixels within the camera and record the 16:9 to a 4:3 frame. Your camera has the footage flagged for 16:9 and plays it that way. When editing within Premiere you will have to pick the DV widescreen template to edit correctly.



My CCD are true 16:9. I have read it should be that, and some old cameras have not true 16:9 CCD, but mine should be true..
And everywhere on Google it says "true 16:9" when searching for my camera. Canon MV900.


I'd like to download your test avis tonight, please keep them online a while. (Right now I can't, I'm at work.)

Okay, all files I have uploaded to "my"(I have only a subdomain) webhotel in the time since I got it, has not been deleted. And will probably never be, before I get storage problems :P

[foxyshadis]

I see what you mean, I'll have to check it out further in those areas. (Going to q1 should be essentially bit-perfect, but it's also 5 times the size on that segment - not that much smaller than lossless.) I'll need to tweak it to handle very dark, moderately grainy areas better, that's quite bad.

Mine came out to 2.5meg from your source, and the artifacts aren't as bad (still visible unfortunately), maybe it's because of a newer xvid version or something. Sorry for wasting your time with that then.

[Simonth]

I see what you mean, I'll have to check it out further in those areas. (Going to q1 should be essentially bit-perfect, but it's also 5 times the size on that segment - not that much smaller than lossless.) I'll need to tweak it to handle very dark, moderately grainy areas better, that's quite bad.

Mine came out to 2.5meg from your source, and the artifacts aren't as bad (still visible unfortunately), maybe it's because of a newer xvid version or something. Sorry for wasting your time with that then.

:/
I havent wasted my time.

But I dont know what to do now :/
I have tryed huffyuv but the size is bigger than I thought. About
165 mb for 10 secs, and that will be 990 mb for 1 min and 891000(891gb), that is..extremely big :o almost 0,9 terabyte for 90min :o And I have tryed to play the 10secs video on my computer with two 160gb RAID harddiscs, and it is lagging/lacking or what it calls.. It dosent play the video smooth :/
So now I really dont know what to do :/ I want to use VirtualDub because of the filters, etc denoise, cropping,DeShaker and so on.. But I cant because it cant save as 16:9 in DV :/ Hmm..... :/

[foxyshadis]

Same size as mine, I just reported without the audio. (Oddly, resizing drops the file size slightly - not sure why yet.) If you turn the brightness way up, the artifacts are instantly obvious at q2, and I think the only way to fix that is the new HVS mode in the command-line version. :\ Tests with that are promising, maybe I'll see if someone could compile a vfw version with an input box sometime.

It turned out that a pure q1 version wasn't so large and looked fine, but with only that short piece, it's impossible to say if the size would be isolated to that scene and explode elsewhere.

[Simonth]

Well, isn't it strange? Mine is 3,2 MB instead of 2,5 MB or 1,7 MB.

I imported foxyshadis' reg file only (with VirtualDub closed of course) and left everything else untouched (audio is still direct stream copy and I didn't resize or changed aspect ratio). I used VirtualDub 1.6.17 and XviD 1.1.2 November 1 2006 by the way.

Simonth, you stretched the picture width to 1024 - maybe that's the reason for the artefacts?

I can also see now, that in the start of the clip there are artefacts in the middle of the picture too. It is not so visible but still there is some artefacts :/ And there are more noise.. Or artefacts, dont know :P But it looks bad :/
Also look at this image and then after see the movieclip:
http://simon.h-form.dk/Videoer/test/image-paint.JPG
There where the red things points to, there (on the movie) are artefacts/noise.

I have uploaded a 720x400 videoclip now (then the width is not stretched):
http://simon.h-form.dk/Videoer/test/1160-xvid-720400.avi

[Simonth]

Same size as mine, I just reported without the audio. (Oddly, resizing drops the file size slightly - not sure why yet.) If you turn the brightness way up, the artifacts are instantly obvious at q2, and I think the only way to fix that is the new HVS mode in the command-line version. :\ Tests with that are promising, maybe I'll see if someone could compile a vfw version with an input box sometime.

It turned out that a pure q1 version wasn't so large and looked fine, but with only that short piece, it's impossible to say if the size would be isolated to that scene and explode elsewhere.

q1 looks better yes, but there are still more noise than the original DV AVI file, in the middle of the picture :/ And still artefacts at the top of the picture.
(Xvid TQ1 in 720x400: http://simon.h-form.dk/Videoer/test/tq1-xvid-720400.avi )
I could try to record a longer clip, etc. go around in the house, with different light etc. I will do that now...

[Simonth]

I will do that now Hmm.. Iam a little slow.. :P But I have recorded a video now and have seen it in DV AVI and Xvid Q1.. It is hard to seen a difference, I think.. Can you see any difference?
But Xvid is slow to edit? It uses CPU..and DV AVI uses harddisc..? :/
And the quality will be badder/more worse/worst/more bad because it is 720x400 and not 576, right?
I dont understand why VirtualDub needs to resize it :s

Iam uploading the Xvid file right now, so you can take a look..if you want...
The DV file can be downloaded already:
http://simon.h-form.dk/Videoer/test/hustest-klippet1.avi

[Simonth]

DV AVI: http://simon.h-form.dk/Videoer/test/hustest-klippet1.avi
Xvid Q1 in 720x400(resized so it looks like 16:9): http://simon.h-form.dk/Videoer/test/hustest-klippet1-XvidQ1-720400.avi