FF/RW SVCD's on a Philips DVD Player? Has anyone figured this out?

[duronator]

Has anyone figured out this Philips-specific problem yet? I've been messing with it for months but it still doesn't work. I have not seen anyone succeed yet :(

The problem:
When I create an SVCD which is longer than about 36-40 minutes, it won't FF/RW on any Philips DVD-player. Shorter SVCD's do not have this problem. (By the way, a Philips DVD player always shows the time incorrectly, for example a 45 minute SVCD will show as 35 minutes, but that's not really a problem, although it may be connected.)

I've tried many things, including several encoders (Tmpgenc, Lygos, CCE, DVDx) and several burning programs. I have also tried Constant Bitrate instead of VBR.

My current method of creating SVCD's:
1. Encoding video using Avisynth + CCE
2. Encoding audio using Toolame
3. Multiplexing using BBmpeg
4. Authoring and burning using VcdEasy+CDRDAO (Vcdimager)

Note: this is *not* a Nero problem, I don't use Nero for this task (although I have tried it once).

This is also *not* a VCD problem. VCD does FF/RW just fine.

[Stars556]

Hi,

seems to be a problem of your DVD-player ...
Did you check

www.vcdhelp.com

for your player specs ???
Check the player database for user comments.

Stars556

[Infinite_stupidity]

Hi duronator, i have a Philips DVD825(AT) that suffers from that problem aswell, and have tried almost every method ever put out to fix it. A few worked, sometimes:

1.After a FF or RW (When the voices come down to a normal pitch, depending on your player) switch the audio channels (wether there is another one or not) wait a couple seconds and switch back. This is the method i currently employ as i have found no sure-fire way to get 'standard' svcds to play correctly and pretty much gave up. NOTE: may have to be repeated to work
*NOTE: on some players pressing puase and waiting a few seconds and play also works.

2.Another technique that has around 75% success rate (for me atleast) is to cut and remux with TMPGEnc's mpeg tools. Now this has many downsides. one being that you only get one audio channel, and its not really svcd mpeg2 (something about a chinese spec.)

3. Use I-Author, now I REALLY hate I-Author but it worked a good portion of the time... The downside being that the created svcd (if that damn buggy prog even makes it through) is created using the defunct chinese spec.

Well i hope that helps ya some.

[johnvick]

Have you the latest firmware in your DVD player?
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/lelab/video/philips_en.htm

[Infinite_stupidity]

Originally posted by johnvick
Have you the latest firmware in your DVD player?

I upgraded my 825 with v9.28, still sync issues persist...

[duronator]

Originally posted by Infinite_stupidity
[B]A few worked, sometimes:

1.After a FF or RW (When the voices come down to a normal pitch, depending on your player) switch the audio channels (wether there is another one or not) wait a couple seconds and switch back.
Thanks for replying. Are you sure that we're talking about the same problem here? I have no problem with audio but when I try to FF/RW, the player just stops immediately.

2.Another technique that has around 75% success rate (for me atleast) is to cut and remux with TMPGEnc's mpeg tools. Now this has many downsides. one being that you only get one audio channel, and its not really svcd mpeg2 (something about a chinese spec.)
I only use 1 language so this wouldn't be a problem. I usually multiplex using BBmpeg but it doesn't help.

3. Use I-Author, now I REALLY hate I-Author but it worked a good portion of the time...
Are you saying that this helps solve the 'FF/RW' problem? I tried once with I-author but it didn't fix the problem :(

[duronator]

Originally posted by Stars556
seems to be a problem of your DVD-player ...
Did you check
www.vcdhelp.com
for your player specs ???
Check the player database for user comments.
Hi, it certainly seems to be a Philips problem. I tried the same disc on a Pioneer with no problems at all.

The specs of my player and the manual say it supports SVCD. Indeed, it does play SVCD but that's about it. The people at Philips seem to be very unhelpful in this matter. I've been waiting for months now for a solution.

[duronator]

Originally posted by johnvick
Have you the latest firmware in your DVD player?
There doesn't seem to be any new firmware for my player. I have a DVD712 with firmware 2.9.6.

[Infinite_stupidity]

whoops, sorry i thought you were talking about another common philips problem where the audio is constantly out of sync after a FF or RW. Sorry bout that, I must not have paid close enough attention to your post...

What model are you using? I have an 825 that doesnt display any time information when playing svcds, and you say yours displays incorrectly. That does sound like an earlier firmware problem that was described to me when i bought my player (about 1.5 year ago), they said that an update fixed that.... do you have an up to date firmware version like johnvick suggested?

EDIT: whoops again, I see you posted that answer just before i did

again sorry for my stupidity :)

[duronator]

Originally posted by Infinite_stupidity
What model are you using? I have an 825 that doesnt display any time information when playing svcds, and you say yours displays incorrectly. That does sound like an earlier firmware problem that was described to me when i bought my player (about 1.5 year ago), they said that an update fixed that.... do you have an up to date firmware version like johnvick suggested?
again sorry for my stupidity :)

Hehe, no problem, you're forgiven. :)
The 'no time display' error only occurs when I have PBC (Playbackcontrol) enabled. Since I have no use for PBC, I disable it in the menu and the display is functional again. For VCD it's correct, for SVCD it's not. Maybe this could help you.

[Zeus]

Hi.

I read about the Philips fast-ff/rev-problem here and was wondering, because I don't have such problems. At the beginning of my VCD/SVCD experiments I found some settings in TMPGEnc, that satisfied me by 100% percent. I think your problem has something to do with the GOP-settings, so I will list my settings:

GOP Sequence = IBBPBBPBBPBBP
I = 1
P = 4 (for PAL), 5 (for NTSC)
B = 2
Interval of Header = 1 GOP
Closed GOP = yes

Link to my TMPGEnc Templates (PAL only):
http://www.zeus-olymp.purespace.de/zips/tmpgenc.zip

I also figured out, that my Philips DVD Player is extremely sensitive to overall bitrate of the SVCD (VCD is not a problem). For my Player the overall bitrate must not exeed 2600 kbps, thus I set the following for a SVCD with one audio stream and no subtitles:

Video = 2400 kbps CBR
Audio = 256 kbps
---------------------
Total = 2656 kbps

Last but not least someone told me to switch off the digital output of my Player to prevent audio clicking and desync, and that worked fine. The digital output can be switched off in the Player menu.

And for recreating this conditions, I will list my specs:

* Philips DVD 711 (PAL), firmware v7.12
* MPEG Encoding with TMPGEnc v2.x
* Mastering with VCDImager v0.7.x

Any comments welcome!

Zeus.

[duronator]

Originally posted by Zeus
[B]I read about the Philips fast-ff/rev-problem here and was wondering, because I don't have such problems.
...
Link to my TMPGEnc Templates (PAL only):
http://www.zeus-olymp.purespace.de/zips/tmpgenc.zip
Thanks for the input! I'll give your template a try. I'll try the 60-minute SVCD template.

This will take a while, I'll let you know..

[Zeus]

Why don't you try the 40-min-SVCD Template? It uses CBR encoding while all others use VBR, so it will be much faster due to only 1 encoding pass...

Zeus.

[duronator]

Originally posted by Zeus
Why don't you try the 40-min-SVCD Template? It uses CBR encoding while all others use VBR, so it will be much faster due to only 1 encoding pass...
Yes, but the 'critical' length is at about 40 minutes (see my original post). All SVCD's that I make below this length do seem to FF/RW correctly. Only the longer ones fail.

Just to be certain: are you still saying that you don't have a problem with fastforwarding/rewinding on your 60-minutes SVCD's? :confused:

[Zeus]

Sorry, it was a silly question. Let's see, if my Templates are as good as I hope...

Zeus.

[duronator]

Originally posted by Zeus
Sorry, it was a silly question. Let's see, if my Templates are as good as I hope...
Didn't you try for yourself? :confused:
I'm currently trying the 60-minute template but for the sake of time I've changed the 2-pass VBR to CBR at a bitrate of 1700. It will take a few hours so we'll know later on.

[duronator]

Well, I tried the above settings and unfortunately, FF/RW still doesn't work :(

Zeus: Could you try this yourself and if it works, tell me your vcdimager-settings please? Maybe I got something wrong in VCDimager.

(by the way, I've used the VCDEasy as a frontend for VCDImager 0.7.11)

Happy New Year to all!

[Zeus]

oh, thats not so good...:mad:

I can try it on my Player, but this will take a while, because my motherboard is broken, and will be repaird in a few days.

I let you know...

Zeus.

[Infinite_stupidity]

Ok I did some testing / asking around and It's definately not a Philips wide problem. However, it appears to be specific to the DVD712/722 as I have a DVD825 that can FF\RW long SVCDs with only audio desync and I tried a few of my friends Philips models with no problems in FF\RW. And unfortunately it doesnt appear to be fixable by changing the encoding/authoring settings as i have tried a pressed SVCD (yes there are legit SVCDs outside of asia) with a 712 in-store with no success:(. And yet more bad news, the store employees I asked have said the 712 is not firmware upgradable becuase it doesnt have a flash eeprom (whatever that is), now that may or may not be true as I was dealing with CircuitCity here...

Sorry, I really tried to find some glimmer of hope here, but it appears there is none... :(

Well, happy new year...

[johnvick]

I have been having problems also with SVCD going out of synch on my 725, but I have only made 2 so far.
But anyway, if you cannot upgrade firmware by CD it may be possible to do a chip upgrade, but of course this will cost.
Does anyone know what newer version of DVD firmware are suposed to do? I have searched Philip's site to no avail.

[duronator]

Originally posted by Infinite_stupidity
Ok I did some testing / asking around and It's definately not a Philips wide problem. However, it appears to be specific to the DVD712/722 as I have a DVD825 that can FF\RW long SVCDs with only audio desync and I tried a few of my friends Philips models with no problems in FF\RW.'...
This doesn't sound very promising for me but the key-word here is length. Have you tried FF/RW with SVCD's longer than 40 minutes? Shorter SVCD's work fine on my player as well.

Pressed SVCD's will probably have a fairly high bitrate so they will most likely generally be under 40 minutes. I tried my SVCD on a DVD701 or DVD711 (don't remember) and it didn't FF/RW on that one either.

I'll contact Philips again shortly and try to make them understand what 'supports SVCD' as stated in the manual should mean. So far I find their customer support to be very bad.

[duronator]

Originally posted by Zeus
oh, thats not so good...:mad:
I can try it on my Player, but this will take a while, because my motherboard is broken, and will be repaird in a few days.
I let you know...
I'd appreciate that, thanks. Good luck with your mobo.

[Zeus]

@duronator:

Hm, just a thought:
Is it enough to take my 60-min-Template and encode about 5-10 min of video and burn it? Or does the disc have to be full?

BTW, I can't get it into my mind: why should 2400 kbps work and 1700 kbps should not?

Zeus.

[Infinite_stupidity]

Originally posted by duronator
This doesn't sound very promising for me but the key-word here is length. Have you tried FF/RW with SVCD's longer than 40 minutes? Shorter SVCD's work fine on my player as well.
Sorry forgot to mention the test specifics.

SVCDS used:
My Svcd: 61 mins
Pressed Svcd: 62 mins (although it is on a 99 minute cd)

Player tested:
My 825 (AT)
701 (He thinks this one is an AT also)
955 (maybe a 956 or 950, the last number is chipped off, and he lost his manual but he thinks its a 955)
712 (in a CircuitCity, btw why do they even have this player still?)
And a foriegn one that had no number on it whatsoever, only a big Philips on the front...

The 825, 701, 955, and the unidentified one all FF and RW both discs with only minor problems(my 825 desyncs audio afterward). The 712 refused to have anything to do with FF or RW on both discs...

[duronator]

Originally posted by Zeus
Is it enough to take my 60-min-Template and encode about 5-10 min of video and burn it? Or does the disc have to be full?
BTW, I can't get it into my mind: why should 2400 kbps work and 1700 kbps should not?
In my experience, a short clip (5-10 minutes) works fine, but a long clip (>40 minutes) does not work, even at the same bitrate. As for 2400 kpbs, this will always work fine even on my player because at this bitrate you wouldn't be able to get more than 40 minutes on a disk.

I have no idea why. I even tried the following:
-Created 1 m2v-stream (video) of 60 minutes
-Created 1 mp2-stream (audio) of 60 minutes
When I multiplex them together with BBmpeg to create a 30 minute SVCD, it works fine. However, if I multiplex it to anything over 40 minutes, it doesn't FF/RW.

[duronator]

Originally posted by Infinite_stupidity

Sorry forgot to mention the test specifics.
...

Thanks for testing this, I really appreciate it. By the way, what does 'AT' mean?

[Infinite_stupidity]

Originally posted by duronator

Thanks for testing this, I really appreciate it. By the way, what does 'AT' mean?
Oh, np on the testing front, truth be told I was in the middle of doing something similar to this already. I was testing all my friends players for (S)VCD compatability anyway, and one of my close friends works at that CircuitCity...

I honestly have no idea what the AT means, probably just another way for Philips to make more money:).

[Zeus]

I'm in the middle of the encoding, at about 55%, 6 hours to go from here (I hate this damn old K6-2/450). We will see it tomorrow...

Zeus.

[frank]

And we should accept: It's definitely a firmware bug of Philips.

There is more crap:
- The picture resizing function doesn't work at all (DVD, VCD,SVCD). It only resizes to stills and stops moving!!
- If you have more than one mpeg track the chapter timing starts from the first track!
- Digital output of mp3 is disabled.

Let's make things better, Philips!

[Zeus]

I just encoded 57 min of a film with my 60-min-Template (with 1700 kbps CBR to save time), and burned it with VCDEasy (PBC off). Unfortunately, you are right and this disc can't ff/rev :mad:

I used the following software:
* TMPGEnc 2.50.32.120
* VCDEasy 1.0.5
* VCDImager 0.7.11
* CDRDAO 1.1.5

Zeus.

[Infinite_stupidity]

Hey Zeus, by any chance did you try to activate any of the 'compatability options' of VCDImager that VCDEasy offers.

1.0.5 really only has one: in the settings under (s)vcd player there's a box that says something like 'Use MPEGAV/ENTRYSVD instead of...'. Most Philips players dont actually conform to what we consider the svcd standard, instead they only really support the chinese one that they are required to...

Also it may be becuase you turned PBC off, that sounds wierd but PBC for SVCD is a requirement by the spec but if it plays it I dont think that this is a problem...

These are only things that might work, as I dont actually have a 725 that I can test on...

[duronator]

Originally posted by Zeus
I just encoded 57 min of a film with my 60-min-Template (with 1700 kbps CBR to save time), and burned it with VCDEasy (PBC off). Unfortunately, you are right and this disc can't ff/rev :mad:
Ahh, that's too bad. This problem's a real bitch. It seems it's up to Philips to do something about it. :mad:

Maybe there's a clue in the incorrectly displayed time:
My mpeg shows up in Windows Media Player with the (correct) length of 58:13 (mm:ss).
My DVD-player somehow displays the length as 38:45.

The bitrates I used are 1700 kpbs for video (CBR) and 128 kbps for audio. The format is PAL (480x576 at 25 fps).

Would anyone care to try and calculate what could be the cause of this variation? :confused:

[duronator]

Originally posted by Infinite_stupidity
did you try to activate any of the 'compatability options' of VCDImager that VCDEasy offers.
I tried playing around with these settings as you suggested. I enabled PBC on VCDeasy and my player. I also tried authoring with and without the 'MPEGAV/ENTRYSVD' and the 'update scan data offsets'. It doesn't seem to make any difference on my player :(

[Neone]

And that is on a Southpark SVCD encoded disc that I've burned.
20min episodes.
2 episodes on each disc.
But only the first episode is FF/RW compatible. Not the 2nd one.
So I will be burning a "fake" track. A third last track that is about 1-10 secs long so the 2nd episode will be FF/RW compatible.
I have Futurama VCD's too. Same thing there.
But there are 3 episodes for every disc there.
1st and 2nd episode is FF/RW compatible, not the 3rd :/

I also have a SVCD burned disc with music videos.
But NO track is FF/RW compatible here! :(

Botta be something with the encoding here I think.

Btw, I have a Philips DVD622 Standalone Player.

[oceandiver]

Hi everybody

I was having the same problem on my 701
when I do my mpegs with V:2376 and A: 224 (=2600)
and create a SVCD with chapters in TSCV (Chapterlength approx 4min)
everything is fine. I´ve tried almost everything else this is the only action that helped me with the ff/rw Problem :D

[duronator]

Originally posted by oceandiver
when I do my mpegs with V:2376 and A: 224 (=2600)
and create a SVCD with chapters in TSCV (Chapterlength approx 4min)
everything is fine.
Yes, but that limits you to about 41 minutes of SVCD on a 80m CDR. :( I want to lower the bitrate to get about 60 minutes on 1 CD but my player seems to have other plans.

[duronator]

I spoke with a guy from Philips customer support today (again). He told me that the tech people in Hong Kong are working on a firmware upgrade to fix this SVCD-ff/rw problem. He could not say when it would be ready.

Let's hope for the best.:rolleyes:

[Zoltan]

Well, I found this forum and in this (http://66.197.63.122/forum/showthread.php?threadid=18) thread I read the brand new v8.11 fw doesn't solve the fw/rw problem either. Other bugs have been reported, instead.

Z

[Neone]

Gah. When will SVCD FF/RW be available then? Never?
I bet we have to buy a new player to get the shit to work.

VCD is fully FF/RW compatible on my player thou. That's nice.
But I don't encode VCD. Only SVCD. So I want that shit to work :D
Anyway, I hope those HongKong guys will fix it sooner or later.

Peace.

"The only true love is the love to yourself" - Daniel Sundgren 2002

[duronator]

Originally posted by Zoltan
Well, I found this forum and in this (http://66.197.63.122/forum/showthread.php?threadid=18) thread I read the brand new v8.11 fw doesn't solve the fw/rw problem either. Other bugs have been reported, instead.

Zoltan, this is most probably *not* the firmware version that Philips support told me about. I have a DVD712 and the current firmware version is completely different in number (2.9.6). This probably has to do with MP3-support which not too many Philips players have at the moment.

Philips is installing new firmware in my player so I hope to know soon.

[VoRtEkS]

After messing for months with DVD2SVCD, I've finally cured the problem of no FF/RW AND displayed time on my Philips DVD 633.
In DVD2SVCD, use VCDXBUILD to create images, burn with Nero and turn PBC OFF on the player.
I know it won't work with all players as PBC must be turned ON but it works fine on mine so I suggest trying it.

If I use any other software to burn or turn PBC on, It all goes wrong again.


Experimentation is frustrating but the solution is bliss. ;)

[frank]

Since March 2002 there is a new Philips firmware update that solves the FF/RW problem.

[VoRtEkS]

Frank, have you got any links of any updates for my 633 model?
The firmware updates I've seen are for the 7xx, 8xx and 9xx but not for the 6xx.
I'd be interested in trying it so I can use other software to create and burn SVCD's.

[RoopeT]

Here are fw updates for DVD 633: http://www.euroservice.pfr.philips.com/assistance/dvd/sommairesoft.htm

Newest version: http://www.euroservice.pfr.philips.com/assistance/dvd/cdr_SD4.0_4.22.70-0+6.1.10.zip

[Zoltan]

FYI: Using the latest build of VCDImager my SVCDs support FF/RW on my Philips DVD 751 seamlessly.

Regards,
Z

[SuperFabius]

At last! I've upgraded my old Philips DVD750 with 7.26 FW (from 7.22).
Now FF/RW works on my SVCDs!

The sad thing is that, in the meantime, I've bought other two players...:rolleyes:

Note: if there is a sync lost after a FF/RW, press PAUSE and then PLAY. It shall sync again.

BYE

[VoRtEkS]

I cured the problem by buying a DVD burner.
I can now put 3 full length movies at SVCD quality on 1 DVD with no problems at all.
I use DVD2SVCD to convert them and DVD Maestro to author the DVD.
I know it's not the cure for everyone's problems but I highly recommend it.

If anyone wants a 'how to', let me know..............

[Zoltan]

Anyone tried whether a Philips DVD 751 can play DVD+R media containing SVCD format video (not DVD)?

Thanks,
Z

[Zoltan]

Hi, I downloaded the FW zip file named cdr_7.26.zip, it says it works for DVD 750/751 among many others. But when I unzip it, I get a FW file named 09980001.015.

Is this the one you burned? For the previous versions this filename was identical to the FW version number. E.g.: for FW 7.22 --> 07220001.015.

Could you pls check it?

Thanks,
Z

[VoRtEkS]

Anyone tried whether a Philips DVD 751 can play DVD+R media containing SVCD format video (not DVD)?

You can't burn a compliant DVD with an SVCD movie, It has to be authored with software like DVD Maestro.
I tried it on my DVD 633 and a friends 751 and it didn't work, I did it as DVD compliant with Maestro and it worked a treat!
Also, I think there's some compatibility issues with +R media. I use a -R burner with no problem at all.