Any good tools for Zune

[weaver4]

My son wanted a Zune for Christmas. The first thing he wanted to do was put movies on it. The format it requires is:

Windows Media Video (.wmv): Main Profile, CBR or VBR, up to 1.5 Mbps peak video bitrate, 320 x 240 pixels, 30 frames per sec., with Windows Media Audio up to 192 Kbps, 44.1 kHz, stereo audio; Simple Profile, CBR, up to 736 Kbps video bitrate, 320 x 240 pixels, 30 frames per sec., with Windows Media Audio up to 192 Kbps, 44.1 kHz, stereo audio.

The Windows Media Encoder takes the following source files: .wav, .wma, .wmv, .asf, .avi, .mpg, .mp3, .bmp, and .jpg (the wav file is six channel all mono, so screw that). So I start to teach him how to use DGIndex to get a d2v file then use VFAPI to get a psudo avi file. How to install AVISynth. Then we got into making a mp3 file. He said "There must be a better way; and left"

Any suggestions?

I tired using AutoGK, renaming VirutalDubMod to something else; then when it fails I have a mp3 file, an avs file and a d2v file. Use MakeAVIs on the avs file to get an avi file. Feed that avi file and the mp3 file into the Microsoft Media Encoder. That works and is a little simpler.

[alan_erickson@hotmail.com]

I'm aware of this program which somebody is working on for the xbox 360. It also supports the zune.

http://dcunningham.net/

Why MS doesn't make a program like this for converting large numbers of files is beyond me. They want people to use their encoder but then don't give people any decent tools for encoding files in their format (I do not consider WME or moviemaker decent programs).

[weaver4]

Thanks, I will give it a try.

Hopefully zambelli heard you

[gejoroni]

i got a zune for xmas as well...im using windows media encoder by renaming my vobs to .mpg and running them piece by piece through the encoder. it seems to be working pretty well, using the "pocket pc" settings (and of course adjusting the resolutions) except for the last vob, which WME won't open. does anybody know if there is there some sort of quirk with the last vob on a disc?

[zambelli]

Why MS doesn't make a program like this for converting large numbers of files is beyond me. They want people to use their encoder but then don't give people any decent tools for encoding files in their format (I do not consider WME or moviemaker decent programs).
Resources. Resources. Resources. ;)

DirectShow SDK, Windows Media Format SDK, Media Foundation SDK, ASF format, VC-1 codec, Windows Media codec APIs - these are all publicly documented technologies. MS might not have the resources to develop and support all the encoding tools people want, but there's certainly very little stopping others from developing the same.

[dlflannery]

I've spent many hours trying to coax WME9 to create .wmv files for Zune, with very limited success. Can't get it to process my MPEG2 files at all -- and I'm aware of the need for a suitable codec. Did get it to process a DivX file but with several minutes of pre-encoding GUI lock up while it did something after I entered the input file name and started the encode.

My mpeg2 files play fine in WMP -- supposedly that means the codec will support WME9 conversions.

I've been free-trialing three Zune Video Converters for $30 or less -- MovieTaxi, Xilisoft and CuCuSoft. The CuCuSoft appears to be a clear winner -- very fast (80 frames/sec), easy to use and (so far) perfect playback on my Zune. This is with either mpeg2 or DivX (renamed to .avi) inputs.

I would love to master WME but ... I need to get some conversions done!

[zambelli]

I've been free-trialing three Zune Video Converters for $30 or less -- MovieTaxi, Xilisoft and CuCuSoft. The CuCuSoft appears to be a clear winner -- very fast (80 frames/sec), easy to use and (so far) perfect playback on my Zune. This is with either mpeg2 or DivX (renamed to .avi) inputs.
I would guess that most of these converters use the same WMV codec that's already present on the machine - otherwise they'd have to implement their own VC-1 encoder. If I'm right, then the "faster" programs are simply lowering the WMV encoder complexity at the cost of quality.

[dlflannery]

I would guess that most of these converters use the same WMV codec that's already present on the machine - otherwise they'd have to implement their own VC-1 encoder. If I'm right, then the "faster" programs are simply lowering the WMV encoder complexity at the cost of quality.
Yep, I would guess so... but then quality for Zune? (3 inch screen, 320x240 resolution).

Anyway since I am driven by an urge to become a video dweeb (like the rest of you Doom9'ers) I managed to get good Zune .wmv files from my mpeg2's using Nic's WME program (NICWMenc) and a simple AVISynth script. Times for a 45 minute video:
dgIndex: 35 sec
Nic encode: 15 min 6 sec
Transfer to Zune: 19 sec
This speed is very comparable to the CuCuSoft Zune converter -- but I had the satisfaction of making all this stuff work together!

I did this with CBR at the default 600 Kbps rate.

Question: I tried VBR constrained, with 1.5 Mbps limit (per Zune specs). However the resulting WMV had an average bitrate of only 178Kbps (and noticeable quality degradation). How do I set it up to average say 600 Kbps with a 1.5 Mbps limit?

And THANKS to Nic and to you too Zambelli, for the tools and help you give on this forum!

[buzzqw]

hi weaver4

i have update automkv... (i have added 2 zune profiles) can you try ?

:thanks: !

BHH

[weaver4]

hi weaver4

i have update automkv... (i have added 2 zune profiles) can you try ?

:thanks: !

BHH

Sure we will try it.

[weaver4]

My son is now using Encode360. But for every vob file you import it makes a wmv file, pretty silly.

[buzzqw]

what are specs encode360 is using for encoding to Zune ?

i use fixed width 320, maxpeak bitrate 1.5Mb, wmv9 (standard) and wma (standard)

BHH

[weaver4]

Because of audio problems in the Windows Media Encoder they were using 500kbs CBR; single pass.

Here is a good website on how to encode for the zune (look towards the end).

http://www.zune.net/en-us/support/howto/start/providecontent.htm#section6

Here is website that talks about the Zune 5.1 audio issues with windows media encoder.

http://dcunningham.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=93&highlight=zune

Trey

[zambelli]

Question: I tried VBR constrained, with 1.5 Mbps limit (per Zune specs). However the resulting WMV had an average bitrate of only 178Kbps (and noticeable quality degradation). How do I set it up to average say 600 Kbps with a 1.5 Mbps limit?
When encoding to peak-limited bitrate VBR, there are two bitrate fields - one that sets the average bitrate and one that sets the maximum bitrate. By default the max bitrate defaults to 1.5x the average bitrate.

[dlflannery]

When encoding to peak-limited bitrate VBR, there are two bitrate fields - one that sets the average bitrate and one that sets the maximum bitrate. By default the max bitrate defaults to 1.5x the average bitrate.
That makes sense but I can't begin to relate it to Nic's WMEnc user interface (see attached image).

If I check VBR unconstrained I get a 2000kbps average bitrate. For constrained or quality I get around 180 kbps, regardless of the max limit or the VBR quality setting. In all cases it just ignores the 600kbps entry higher up.

I tried one case with VBR and Multi-pass checked and it crashed WME on the third pass.

So far the only thing that gives reasonable results is CBR single pass. This is true using either WMV7 or WMV9 codecs.

I also can't relate the items on this GUI with the items in the WME9 encoder gui as described in the instructions provided by Zune (http://www.zune.net/en-us/support/howto/start/providecontent.htm#section6) for encoding to Zune WMV.

Is there a guide or post(s) that would help me out here?

[jjack]

zune can play wmv or mp4? is there other format that can be played?

[dlflannery]

zune can play wmv or mp4? is there other format that can be played?
Zune actually only plays wmv with certain parameter limits as detailed on the official Zune site (http://www.zune.net/en-us/support/howto/start/providecontent.htm#section6):

Format: Windows Media Video (.wmv)
Video codec: Windows Media Video 9 (Simple, Main, and Advanced Profiles), Windows Media Video 9 Screen, Windows Media Video 9 Image Version 2, Windows Media Video 9 VCM.
Video resolution: up to 320x240 (QVGA) or 320x180 (16:9 QVGA)
Maximum video bit rate: 500 Kbps (recommended for the best balance of optimal battery life and video quality) up to 1.5 Mbps
Video peak bit rate: up to 1.5 Mbps
Complexity or profile: Main profile, VBR
Audio codec: Windows Media Audio (.wma)
Maximum audio bit rate: WMA Standard, CBR, 128 Kbps (recommended), up to 192 Kbps, Stereo, 44.1 kHz
Maximum total bit rate: 1.692 Mbps, 1.5 Mbps for peak video plus 192 Kbps for audio

As their site states, if you try to sync a mp4 or a wmv that is outside the parameter limits, it will re-encode as part of the sync (which takes a long time). Thus you want to encode to an acceptable WMV format before sending to the Zune.

[weaver4]

zune can play wmv or mp4? is there other format that can be played?

The confusion comes from the fact that the Zune Player (on your computer can play mp4 or wmv. But the Zune Device (the handheld) will only play wmv files recorded a specific way.

[zambelli]

If I check VBR unconstrained I get a 2000kbps average bitrate. For constrained or quality I get around 180 kbps, regardless of the max limit or the VBR quality setting. In all cases it just ignores the 600kbps entry higher up.
The VBR quality setting should only matter when Quality mode is used.

I tried one case with VBR and Multi-pass checked and it crashed WME on the third pass.
There is no 3rd pass in WMV encoding. Not sure what's happening there. You might be able to get more help from Nic in the Nic WMEncoder thread. Search for it here.

[dlflannery]

Note: This applies to mpeg2 files with mpeg audio (mpeg1-layer2) NOT mpegs ripped from DVD with AC3 audio. For example, camcorder captures to mpeg2 , or mpeg files converted from TiVo recordings would normally have mpeg audio.

I've put together a set of two (Windows) batch files that automatically process a list of mpeg2 file names to Zune (320x240) WMV files that will transfer to the Zune fast without requiring re-encoding. (WMV files are the only format that will transfer without re-encoding, which takes a long time, and mpeg2's will not transfer at all.) The only manual step is typing the MPEG2 file names in the first batch file using notepad. (You can also just run the second batch file with an mpeg2 name as the argument).

The process uses several free programs:
DGMPGDec DGIndex
AviSynth
Windows Media Encoder and the command-line script for it.

Downloading and installing these programs only takes a few minutes.

I'm considering writing up a detailed guide for this process if there is some interest. It would cover downloading and installing, customizing the batch files to your particular computer folders, and usage, including hints on how to vary some of the encoding parameters for different quality/speed tradeoffs.

Total encoding times as small as 35% of video duration can be achieved on my 3 GHz machine using WMV7 codec, and CBR, single-pass encoding at 500 kbps, and I can't see any significant quality loss compared with slower encoding parameters (e.g., WMV9 codec, 2-pass VBR , which takes about 120% of video duration). However I would describe in the guide how to set up either "profile" and you would easily be able to design your own.

Let me know if you're interested in such a guide.

[buzzqw]

have you tryed the Zune profile in AutoMKV ?

BHH

[dasiy0627]

you can use zune video converter (http://www.my-video-converter.com/video_to_zune/)tool to convert your video files to play on zune, The Zune only can play WMA, AAC, and MP3 music formats and WMV, MP4 and H.264 video formats.so you need convert video existing on your computer or peripheral equipment to mp4,wmv format for zune movie by video converter

[dlflannery]

have you tryed the Zune profile in AutoMKV ?

BHH
In response to your suggestion, Yes I have. I've posted my initial results and comments in the AutoMKV thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=930831#post930831).

My initial impression is that my batch files are much faster and produce quality that is adequate for the Zune screen. Therefore my offer to produce a detailed guide to allow others to use my approach still stands -- if any interest is shown.

[buzzqw]

a good guide is always welcome ! :)

feel free to post!

BHH

P.S i will respond about atuomkv in the automkv thread

[dlflannery]

a good guide is always welcome ! :)

feel free to post!

BHH

P.S i will respond about atuomkv in the automkv thread
buzzqw, the author of AutoMKV (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=854221#post854221) has made amazingly quick mods to his program that make it preferable to my batch files as detailed in this post (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=931187#post931187).

This has definitely removed any desire I had to generate a guide for my batch files! Now I'm thinking about a small guide called "The Newbie's Guide to Quick and Dirty Mpeg2 Conversion for Zune with AutoMKV".

[dlflannery]

The AutoMKV guide I mentioned (http://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=319372)has been prepared, in case anyone's interested.

[jmnk]

Maybe Zambelli could clarify:
from official MS site:
"Natively Supported Formats on the Zune Device
Format: Windows Media Video (.wmv)
Video codec: Windows Media Video 9 (Simple, Main, and Advanced Profiles), Windows Media Video 9 Screen, Windows Media Video 9 Image Version 2, Windows Media Video 9 VCM.
Video resolution: up to 320x240 (QVGA) or 320x180 (16:9 QVGA)
Maximum video bit rate: 500 Kbps (recommended for the best balance of optimal battery life and video quality) up to 1.5 Mbps
Video peak bit rate: up to 1.5 Mbps
Complexity or profile: Main profile, VBR
Audio codec: Windows Media Audio (.wma)
Maximum audio bit rate: WMA Standard, CBR, 128 Kbps (recommended), up to 192 Kbps, Stereo, 44.1 kHz
Maximum total bit rate: 1.692 Mbps, 1.5 Mbps for peak video plus 192 Kbps for audio"

I'm confused as to whether Zune device actually natively plays WMV Advanced Profile - as encoded with Windows Media Video 9 Advanced Profile option in WME. The cited text (the bold parts) seems confusing to me.

[zambelli]

I'm confused as to whether Zune device actually natively plays WMV Advanced Profile - as encoded with Windows Media Video 9 Advanced Profile option in WME. The cited text (the bold parts) seems confusing to me.
AFAIK, yes, Advanced Profile is supported. The real question is: why would you want to encode 320x240 video with Advanced Profile?

[jmnk]

AFAIK, yes, Advanced Profile is supported. The real question is: why would you want to encode 320x240 video with Advanced Profile?

I wouldn't. Just being picky about documentation. Thanks for reply. And I do like Zune.

[mysekurity]

I know this is pretty much a dead thread, but in case anyone happens to be looking through this, check out Microsoft Expression Media Encoder. It's free, and works pretty damn well. There's a Zune profile, which does what you'd expect it would. It's good stuff.

[benwaggoner]

AFAIK, yes, Advanced Profile is supported. The real question is: why would you want to encode 320x240 video with Advanced Profile?
Actually, the web site was wrong - Zune doesn't support Advanced Profile, just Simple and Main.

[FLX]

Thats an coincidence, im just finished writing the first version of my tool: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=126611

[jmnk]

anyone any ideas why zune software doesn't want to play x.264 encoded files (mp4 container, with stereo nero-encoded LC audio)? is it that it does not support Advanced Profile? Or maybe it needs to be of certain AVC level?