Mux VC1 on WMV

[Golgot13]

Hi all,
No way today to mux a VC1 video file on WMV container
(Solveig ASF tool don't work) ?
VC1 is not compatible with WMV tool (Windows Media Stream Editor,...).
I need to test VC1 video file with some chipsets, but all platforms
with this chipset can play VC1 when it mux on WMV container...


Golgot13

[McCrash]

Can i ask you how your vc1 files were made ? Could you make one available to us ?

[vsv]

Do you tried mux vc-1 with sound to ts ?

[Golgot13]

Can i ask you how your vc1 files were made ? Could you make one available to us ?

Censored...... But you can extract *.es or *.vc1
from wmv with "Inletdump.exe" software from Inlet.

[Golgot13]

Do you tried mux vc-1 with sound to ts ?

Yes, I can with Manzanita software but it's not WMV container.
Because the HD hardware player can not play VC1 on ts container, it play VC1 on WMV container (I think some hardware player
will need to be upgraded to play VC1 on *.ts file).
I listen that all HD STB hardware player can play VC1 in DVB (same at TS container) but only when it is live broadcast.


Golgot13

[McCrash]

PEP encoder of Microsoft. But you can extract *.es or *.vc1
from wmv with "Inletdump.exe" software from Inlet.

I think Inletdump is part of Fathom which is big bucks :scared:

[zambelli]

I think Inletdump is part of Fathom which is big bucks :scared:
Golgot should make it clear that none of the software he mentions is freely available to the public. :)

[vsv]

PEP is free for PRO's and people who in love with MS:)

For Zambelli and Ben Waggoner my question:
Why impossible to share PEP for community like doom9?
Imho, its a better way to push HD-DVD and VC-1 codec over BD :)

We remember success of divx 3.11;)
Now time for VC-1 and HD-DVD for red laser DVD-R.

[pwimmer]

What is PEP?

[vsv]

PEP is PET ;) (parallel encoding tool)
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2006/oct06/10-05THXHDDVDPR.mspx

[pwimmer]

Is there a chance that I can get PET? Anything less annoying than the Windows Media Encoder 9 is highly appreciated, especially since WME Studio Edition is no longer available. Can PET encode to wmv format or raw VC-1 only? Why is it not mentioned in the pro section of the Windows Media website?

[Golgot13]

PEP is free for PRO's and people who in love with MS:)

Some people have this tool and don't love MS...
Censored....

For HD DVD project on DVD disc we must "now" to use VC1 codec because HD DVD with H264
need a good CPU to play fine on PC with DVDRom. I think we need to wait the half of 2007
to have a optimization of HD DVD software player to play fine HD DVD with H264 codec
on "normal" PC (between 2.4GHz to 3.1Ghz).

Best wishes at all member of Doom9.

Golgot13

[Dmitry Vergheles]

Hi all,
No way today to mux a VC1 video file on WMV container
(Solveig ASF tool don't work) ?
VC1 is not compatible with WMV tool (Windows Media Stream Editor,...).
I need to test VC1 video file with some chipsets, but all platforms
with this chipset can play VC1 when it mux on WMV container...


Golgot13

Hi Golgot13,
Could you please describe what is the problem with SolveigMM ASF Muxer?

Do you encode VC1 by yourself (I mean can you re-encode it).

[Golgot13]

Hi Golgot13,
Could you please describe what is the problem with SolveigMM ASF Muxer?

Do you encode VC1 by yourself (I mean can you re-encode it).

Yes, I encode it. But I can not recode it (if I don't use Graphedit).

Censored....

But I need to read it on HD hardware player which can accept
VC1 only in WMV container.


Golgot13

[zambelli]

Why impossible to share PEP for community like doom9?
PEP is suite of VC-1 encoding tools that's only available to select Microsoft partners. It's simply not designated for public release at this moment. It was designed to facilitate HD-DVD/BD compliant VC-1 encoding in a typical studio environment where segment re-encoding and parallel processing are necessary for quick turnaround times. We're talking about D5 tape sources and 16 blade systems here, not DVD backup and home PCs. Completely different target audience.

Imho, its a better way to push HD-DVD and VC-1 codec over BD
PEP is disc-agnostic. It produces VC-1 bitstreams, which means it can be used for both HD-DVD and BD authoring. Whether you'd want to use VC-1 in HD-DVD or BD would depend largely on the recording hardware and authoring software you have available - PEP would unlikely be the deciding factor here.

We remember success of divx 3.11
Success of DivX 3.11 had very little to do with Microsoft, despite the fact that it was Microsoft's codec. ;)

Is there a chance that I can get PET? Anything less annoying than the Windows Media Encoder 9 is highly appreciated, especially since WME Studio Edition is no longer available.
No, PEP is only available for select partners at this moment. Who are these "select partners"? Companies like Warner Bros, Technicolor, Deluxe, GDMX - the kind of companies that are filling the shelves at Best Buy with the latest HD-DVD and BluRay titles.

Microsoft is just not ready to expand the scope of PEP to the home user. It's not that we don't value the home user - it's simply that our hands are already pretty full as it is with existing PEP customers, most of whom more or less demand direct support from Microsoft and 1:1 training.

Can PET encode to wmv format or raw VC-1 only? Why is it not mentioned in the pro section of the Windows Media website?
PEP produces only elementary VC-1 streams. It has no preference for any container format.

We're in a phase of figuring out how to get the latest in our codec technology out to both the professional users and the home users in a way that satisfies both ends of the user spectrum. Pulling WME SE Beta from the website is a part of that re-structuring, as unfortunate as it may seem. That's really all I can say on the topic at this moment. Ben might be able to elaborate on the subject of WME SE, but it's entirely at his discretion.

[benwaggoner]

PEP is free for PRO's and people who in love with MS:)

For Zambelli and Ben Waggoner my question:
Why impossible to share PEP for community like doom9?
Imho, its a better way to push HD-DVD and VC-1 codec over BD :)

It's very much a high-touch technology (not really a product), and really assumes a full day of training and a few weeks of full-time work with it before professional results are possible. So, the support costs for us are high, and so we only increase the breadth of distribution when we're able to support it. Hobbyists would have all kinds of legitimate complaints about workflow, ecetera, which we woudn't address. For example, the only supported input file type is .yuv.

In general, the bar to get it is to have a HD DVD or BD muxer capable of .vc1 support, and to be working on making broadly distributed titles. Addtionally, attending a full-day training session is mandatory.

Of course, we want this techology out there in the world as broadly as possible, but PEP as of today isn't planned to be our mechanism to get it out there.

Anyone who feels they really should have it, but don't, feel free to PM me.

[benwaggoner]

Is there a chance that I can get PET? Anything less annoying than the Windows Media Encoder 9 is highly appreciated, especially since WME Studio Edition is no longer available. Can PET encode to wmv format or raw VC-1 only? Why is it not mentioned in the pro section of the Windows Media website?
There's a huge number of commerical tools that make WMV files other than Windows Media Enoder. Do none of those solutions meet your needs, or are you looking for something free?

[benwaggoner]

Hi all,
No way today to mux a VC1 video file on WMV container
(Solveig ASF tool don't work) ?
VC1 is not compatible with WMV tool (Windows Media Stream Editor,...).
I need to test VC1 video file with some chipsets, but all platforms
with this chipset can play VC1 when it mux on WMV container...

If you're using a device that wants to us a WMV file, it also might not be optimized for the buffer model a HD DVD-targeted file might use. The output of PEP is really meant for HD DVD/BD, and other scenarios aren't being focused on.

[Dmitry Vergheles]

Yes, I encode it. But I can not recode it (if I don't use Graphedit).

I can send you a small part of VC1 video file encode with PEP encoder
of Microsoft (first application for this file is HD DVD).

But I need to read it on HD hardware player which can accept
VC1 only in WMV container.


Golgot13

It would be nice if we have a chance to download a sample of such a file.

[crypto]

Hi Dmitry,

Those VC-1 ES streams are PES encapsulated VC-1 raw streams. The asf muxer seems not to accept those stream. How are the input streams validated?

[Dmitry Vergheles]

Hi Dmitry,

Those VC-1 ES streams are PES encapsulated VC-1 raw streams. The asf muxer seems not to accept those stream. How are the input streams validated?

Actually the ASF muxer is DirectShow filter to connect with any upstream filter.
As far as I understand this ES stream is unable to be renddered in DirectShow.

Nevertheless we can make console app to parse VC-1 and feed video to ASF Muxer

[zambelli]

Actually the ASF muxer is DirectShow filter to connect with any upstream filter.
As far as I understand this ES stream is unable to be renddered in DirectShow.
Another solution is to make a VC-1 ES DirectShow parser filter that can connect the video stream output to the ASF muxer.

[Dmitry Vergheles]

Another solution is to make a VC-1 ES DirectShow parser filter that can connect the video stream output to the ASF muxer.

Of course :) Do you think such a filter if it were public could be interesting for people?

[crypto]

I would be interested :)

[Dmitry Vergheles]

I would be interested :)

Could you clarify what for? :)

[crypto]

A VC-1 ES splitter would be great. Are you working on such a filter? I am thinking about writing a vc1es2avi tool which wouldn't be necessary, if such a filter exists.

[Golgot13]

But we need a muxer to wmv container.
All (my) VC1 hardware player can play VC1 on WMV,
no ASF :(





Golgot13

[foxyshadis]

But WMV is ASF! That's why all the splitters/muxers are named ASF. Maybe your hardware player requires certain bits to be set in the headers though?

[Dmitry Vergheles]

A VC-1 ES splitter would be great. Are you working on such a filter? I am thinking about writing a vc1es2avi tool which wouldn't be necessary, if such a filter exists.

Yeah I think we will implement such a filter. I suppose the first simple version will be availabe in a week.

Also we could implement VC-1 parsing functionality to our ASF Muxer and in this case it would be possible to connect it just with File Source Filter.

[crypto]

Dmitry, that's good news. If there is something to test, let me know.

[veffremov]

PEP is free for PRO's and people who in love with MS:)


Not quite correct. We have provided free version for evaluation purposes. Love is not required.

[veffremov]

Yeah I think we will implement such a filter. I suppose the first simple version will be availabe in a week.


This should be rally easy, you need only to cook the initial media type and then parse the frame/sequence/eph start codes.

You need to bundle the seauence header and entry point header (if present) with the frame that follows.

Append any user data with the previous frame.

You need to combine both fields of the frame in one sample.

Each sample data should look like:
{seqh}{eph}<frame| field1 field2>{user data}

The elements in {} are optional and may not be present in the stream for every frame.

I have seen files with leading 0s before each start code. You should ignote these (only the leading 0s not the 0x00 0x00 0x01 start code itself).

The only problem is that there are no frame timestamps and there may be no framerate information, so you'll need to make educated guess how to generate the timestamps.

That should about cover it.

[LOGiC]

@Golgot13 / all

how is it possible to mux .vc1 in .ts container ? I already tried a lot of things, Manzanita does not seem to recognize the raw file. Whatever I do, I just get "Video never acquired". Can you please give me some help for this ?

Thank you in advance.

[LOGiC]

@all,

sorry, but I would like to come back to this thread again. It was discussed that one managed to bring .vc1 to .ts container. May I have some hints how you did this ?

[zambelli]

Yeah I think we will implement such a filter. I suppose the first simple version will be availabe in a week.

Also we could implement VC-1 parsing functionality to our ASF Muxer and in this case it would be possible to connect it just with File Source Filter.
Hi Dmitry,
Did you ever get around to adding VC-1 ES muxing functionality to your ASF muxer?

[Schmendrick]

@LOGIC:
The MainConcept Multiplexer contained within the EMuxer Pro Package of Elecard found on www.elecard.com is able to properly mux VC1-ES-files into ts-files. Using graphedit you have to open the VC1-ES-file with the File Source(Async.) filter then connect it to the Elecard MPEG Demultiplexer-filter (which is also contained in the EMuxer Pro Package) as this seems to properly feed the VC1-ES-stream. The VC1-Output Pin of the Elecard MPEG Demultiplexer which is also indicated as "VC1" then is connected to the input pin of the MainConcept Multiplexer and this is connected to the Dump-filter to write the ts-file. On the Mainconcept Multiplexer using a right click on it you will have to to choose "Filter properties" and there on the "Main"-card you have to select "Transport stream" if it is not already selected.
Timing Mode has to be changed from Capture Mode to "Reconstruction Mode". On the left window the "PES (0) Free" stream has to be deleted by a right click and "Delete Stream". Finally the window closed clicking on OK.
Now you should "play" this graph to convert the VC1-File.
As the graph does not stop by itself you will have to watch the size of the output file, if it does not increase any longer you will have to close graphedit without attempting to stop the graph as graphedit otherwise hangs.

The resulting ts-VC1-File is playable with the "WMVideo Decoder DMO" or with a newer "ffdshow Video Decoder"
also a new "Haali Media Spitter" should be installed to properly demux the ts-file. When muxing the ts-file also audio-file can be muxed together with the VC1-file.

Schmendrick

[fbd]

@LOGIC:
The MainConcept Multiplexer contained within the EMuxer Pro Package of Elecard found on www.elecard.com is able to properly mux VC1-ES-files into ts-files. Using graphedit you have to open the VC1-ES-file with the File Source(Async.) filter then connect it to the Elecard MPEG Demultiplexer-filter (which is also contained in the EMuxer Pro Package) as this seems to properly feed the VC1-ES-stream. The VC1-Output Pin of the Elecard MPEG Demultiplexer which is also indicated as "VC1" then is connected to the input pin of the MainConcept Multiplexer and this is connected to the Dump-filter to write the ts-file. On the Mainconcept Multiplexer using a right click on it you will have to to choose "Filter properties" and there on the "Main"-card you have to select "Transport stream" if it is not already selected.
Timing Mode has to be changed from Capture Mode to "Reconstruction Mode". On the left window the "PES (0) Free" stream has to be deleted by a right click and "Delete Stream". Finally the window closed clicking on OK.
Now you should "play" this graph to convert the VC1-File.
As the graph does not stop by itself you will have to watch the size of the output file, if it does not increase any longer you will have to close graphedit without attempting to stop the graph as graphedit otherwise hangs.

The resulting ts-VC1-File is playable with the "WMVideo Decoder DMO" or with a newer "ffdshow Video Decoder"
also a new "Haali Media Spitter" should be installed to properly demux the ts-file. When muxing the ts-file also audio-file can be muxed together with the VC1-file.

Schmendrick

Hi Schmendrick,

I can read with my SetTopBox a .ts file with your process, but the audio track is desync and the movie track is too speed...

I mux a .vc1 with .ac3 and the .vc1 is demux with evodemux.
The framerate is 29.97fps ,can I force the framerate to 23.976?

[Schmendrick]

@fbd:
As I am from "PAL"-land and not from "NTSC"-land (even though being from France you also have SECAM/PAL-25 fps material regularily) my material is all 25 fps so I am not familiar about these framerate problems. So far I have not found any options to modify the framerate. The Multiplex only reports the "reported framerate" but there is no option to modify it. Possibly there even might be also an interlaced versus progressive-frame rate problem as my VC1-clip is reported as 50 fps even I I assume it actually is 25 fps.

At last this so far was the only method I have found out to obatain a viewable video-file from a raw VC1-file.

So I cannot help you any further.

Schmendrick

[fbd]

:thanks: Schmendrick.

[levick]

Hi,

I have been following the VC1 threads with interest.
I have managed to use Graphedit to string together splitters and filters to display the video information so I can convert to MPEG if need be. My luck has been good with small files of several minutes of video information, I cannot open a file that is much bigger then this at all. My system hangs or times out. I suspect my computer is in the ark compared with what is needed to work these HD formats and any size. Can I have an idea as to what spec of computer would get me in the door to work these files without timeout problems?

Cheers

Levick

[squeakyboy]

Well when I am remuxing VC-1 into an asf or wmv container, I am typically using about 10% of my cpu, and between 1-10% of that is actually consumed by the muxer.

I am typically muxing 1-5GB files on my athlon XP 2500+. So you don't need superb hardware, just clean files and the correct filters. If your comp has the power to run XP then it can easily do it.

[ACrowley]

Yes, I can with Manzanita software but it's not WMV container.
Because the HD hardware player can not play VC1 on ts container, it play VC1 on WMV container (I think some hardware player
will need to be upgraded to play VC1 on *.ts file).
I listen that all HD STB hardware player can play VC1 in DVB (same at TS container) but only when it is live broadcast.


Golgot13


Hä ?

Manzanita MP2TSME cant mux VC1 into TS ?
Only Mpeg2 ,H264 but no VC1


Read here, no VC1 multiplexing into TS
http://www.manzanitasystems.com/mp2tsme.html

[pandy]

Hä ?

Manzanita MP2TSME cant mux VC1 into TS ?
Only Mpeg2 ,H264 but no VC1


Read here, no VC1 multiplexing into TS
http://www.manzanitasystems.com/mp2tsme.html

VC1 can be muxed as PRIVATE DATA with proper descriptors as says SMPTE RP227.

[mohsin3m]

@LOGIC:
The MainConcept Multiplexer contained within the EMuxer Pro Package of Elecard found on www.elecard.com is able to properly mux VC1-ES-files into ts-files. Using graphedit you have to open the VC1-ES-file with the File Source(Async.) filter then connect it to the Elecard MPEG Demultiplexer-filter (which is also contained in the EMuxer Pro Package) as this seems to properly feed the VC1-ES-stream. The VC1-Output Pin of the Elecard MPEG Demultiplexer which is also indicated as "VC1" then is connected to the input pin of the MainConcept Multiplexer and this is connected to the Dump-filter to write the ts-file. On the Mainconcept Multiplexer using a right click on it you will have to to choose "Filter properties" and there on the "Main"-card you have to select "Transport stream" if it is not already selected.
Timing Mode has to be changed from Capture Mode to "Reconstruction Mode". On the left window the "PES (0) Free" stream has to be deleted by a right click and "Delete Stream". Finally the window closed clicking on OK.
Now you should "play" this graph to convert the VC1-File.
As the graph does not stop by itself you will have to watch the size of the output file, if it does not increase any longer you will have to close graphedit without attempting to stop the graph as graphedit otherwise hangs.

The resulting ts-VC1-File is playable with the "WMVideo Decoder DMO" or with a newer "ffdshow Video Decoder"
also a new "Haali Media Spitter" should be installed to properly demux the ts-file. When muxing the ts-file also audio-file can be muxed together with the VC1-file.

Schmendrick

First off, I'd like to thank everyone who participated in this thread. It's been truly helpful.

@Schmendrick, I tried this procedure but when i decode the muxed file in ffmpeg (latest) to get yuv's, the output yuv is just the first frame repeated ...

any idea what I could be missing or some additional settings ... ?

Thanx
mohsin3m

[ACrowley]

VC1 can be muxed as PRIVATE DATA with proper descriptors as says SMPTE RP227.

i will try it with my mp2tsme 4 Version...dindt know that

However VC1 in TS is uselsess for me

Ok ,but how can i mux vc1 into proper wmv Container ?

[crypto]

I am currently coding the vc1es2avi tool. First tests show that the resulting avi muxes properly into wmv and other formats plus it can be used in VirtualDub, thus allowing cutting and recoding.

[Golgot13]

i will try it with my mp2tsme 4 Version...dindt know that

However VC1 in TS is uselsess for me


Because you have a release version, but Beta version from last year (before release)
can do it (be carefull with VBV, you must to put it manually).

The problem with VC1 on TS are that HD Box can't play it (problem of firmware player).


I try to mux VC1 on mp4 container(to test), but there is only one way to play
VC1 from professional tool on video box : mux VC1 on WMV

[crypto]

I have uploaded an AVI sample made with vc12avi from a HD-DVD .vc1 elementary stream for tests. It should play out of the box via avi splitter and WMV DMO, should open in VirtualDub w/ ffdshow and mux into WMV using the Dmitry's ASF muxer.

VC-1 AVI Sample 28 MB (http://dvbportal.dyn1.de/download2.php?file=logopathe.avi)

[Jay Bee]

Sweet. Is there a test version available?

[zambelli]

Very cool, Crypto - I'm looking forward to the release of this tool!