60p animation to 29.97i

[J. Baker]

Ok, let's start from the begining. I created a 60fps animation in AnimeStudio. Export at 1440x1080 @ 60fps. I then resized it to 720x480 and @ 60 fps. I then used the following script to get 29.97i...
AVISource("ani60p.avi")
AssumeFPS(59.94)
SeparateFields()
SelectEvery(4,0,3)
Weave()
Ok, now I know it will have a combing effect. But after encoding to dvd with HC (TFF, Interlaced) and playing it in Nvidia DVD Decoder (combine fields), VLC (blend) and VirtualDub (blend fields) I still get a combing effect that shouldn't be there. I'm not sure why?

Here's the video if anyone else wants to try or help me.
download - 18mb (http://www.flashpulse.com/video/ani60p.zip)

[J. Baker]

I was told this was caused by "heavily aliased lines caused by interpolation of fields into frames, something lousy deinterlacers will produce."

Anyway to fix this?

[wonkey_monkey]

If it's down to a lousy deinterlacer, then the answer must be to use a better deinterlacer ;) How does it look in bob mode in VLC? Blend is very "dumb", and interlaced material was never meant to be displayed on a progressive display.

David

PS It might be better just to post a few frames - an 18Mb download isn't too bad but it decompresses to a 500mb AVI! (might want to investigate huffyuv while you're at it ;) )

[J. Baker]

If it's down to a lousy deinterlacer, then the answer must be to use a better deinterlacer ;) How does it look in bob mode in VLC? Blend is very "dumb", and interlaced material was never meant to be displayed on a progressive display.

David

PS It might be better just to post a few frames - an 18Mb download isn't too bad but it decompresses to a 500mb AVI! (might want to investigate huffyuv while you're at it ;) )
Yeah "bob" doesn't do any better. As for the avi size, sorry about that. I use lagarith sometimes but I really don't like compression. It says lossless but it's not. It may look good but it alters the pixels in some form. But I'll post something compressed soon.

[Guest]

Why not keep it progressive? This script is one possibility:

avisource("ani60p.avi")
converttoyuy2()
fdecimate(29.97)

I encoded that to DivX and the motion is acceptably smooth to my eyes.

[J. Baker]

Why not keep it progressive? This script is one possibility:

avisource("ani60p.avi")
converttoyuy2()
fdecimate(29.97)

I encoded that to DivX and the motion is acceptably smooth to my eyes.
Yes that does work fine. I was hoping to create a full length cartoon in dvd format and was hoping to get the motion as smooth as possible with 59.94 fields. It looks like I'll be stuck with 29.97 though.

The only reason I was hoping for 59.94 fields is because when motion gets fast wether it be the character or scene, 59.94 looks smoother then 29.97.

Hmm, now I have more thinking to do but thanks for looking at it guys. ;)

[wonkey_monkey]

Is there a difference between the uncompressed version (that you posted) in VDub with blend applied, and the compressed version (MPEG2?) in VDub with blend applied?

If it looks the same under Bob or Blend in VLC, have you actually activated the deinterlacing filter in Preferences->Video->Filters? That caught me out the first few times.

Could you post a short HC-encoded clip?

I encoded that to DivX and the motion is acceptably smooth to my eyes.

Other people have other eyes ;) I find there's a great difference in feel between 25p and 50i. I wouldn't broadcast a news programme in 25p, just like I wouldn't produce a drama/sci-fi show in 50i these days (Neverwhere is an interesting exception ;) ).

It looks like I'll be stuck with 29.97 though.

Don't give up yet! We know it's perfectly possible to achieve what you want, we just need to figure out what's going wrong.

David

[Guest]

@J. Baker

The process you gave will create good fully smooth interlaced video when played on a DVD player to an interlaced display device. Your problem is that you are playing it on a progressive display, thereby forcing the player to deinterlace. Practical real-time deinterlacing is always going to screw up nice solid lines like you have.

I would keep it progressive if you intend it to be watched on progressive displays.

[J. Baker]

@davidhorman

I don't believe there's a difference but I'll post the HC clip when I can. I have two hours left of encoding on my main pc which has the files and so forth.

@neuron2
I'll try it out on my tv soon. Just was hoping it would play fine on pc as well as tv.

[wonkey_monkey]

I don't believe there's a difference but I'll post the HC clip when I can.

If there is no difference, then it is just an interlaced-video-on-progressive-display problem. It should look better (though it will never be perfect) on VLC in bob mode. Nvidia should have a bob mode too.

David

[J. Baker]

If there is no difference, then it is just an interlaced-video-on-progressive-display problem. It should look better (though it will never be perfect) on VLC in bob mode. Nvidia should have a bob mode too.

David
Ok, I'll try that when my encoding is done because I know I definitly tested blend but can't say I definitly tested bob.

[J. Baker]

Ok, here's the HC file but I still get the same effect even with "bob". I'll have to test it on my tv later as I have a little more encoding to do.

download - 7mb (http://www.flashpulse.com/video/ani_hc.zip)

[wonkey_monkey]

Aha, there's the problem - the video is encoded as TFF, but the input was BFF. Add an

AssumeTFF

after your AVISource and you should be okay.

I'm not sure why you didn't see a difference - in this case, Bob should have looked noticeably worse, with a judder.

David

[foxyshadis]

Yeah "bob" doesn't do any better. As for the avi size, sorry about that. I use lagarith sometimes but I really don't like compression. It says lossless but it's not. It may look good but it alters the pixels in some form. But I'll post something compressed soon.

If you encode in whatever your video is natively created in - usually RGB - there should be absolutely no pixel changes. When loading it into avisynth, you might want to use avisource("",pixel_type="RGB24") just to make sure it doesn't get converted to YUV for any reason. Although you'll have to use YUV at some point to process or output for encoding.

As for motion smoothness in progressive, have you tried mvflowblur or mvfps? Both can add some motion blur in order to offset the damage of decimating. (In fact, if could probably use some motion blur even at 60p.)

[J. Baker]

If you encode in whatever your video is natively created in - usually RGB - there should be absolutely no pixel changes. When loading it into avisynth, you might want to use avisource("",pixel_type="RGB24") just to make sure it doesn't get converted to YUV for any reason. Although you'll have to use YUV at some point to process or output for encoding.

As for motion smoothness in progressive, have you tried mvflowblur or mvfps? Both can add some motion blur in order to offset the damage of decimating. (In fact, if could probably use some motion blur even at 60p.)
Thanks for the motion blur tips. That was going to be my next question. I'll try those later. ;)

[J. Baker]

Is there a sample script for mvflowblur or mvfps?